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US Slips Again In Freedom of the Press Ranking
npwa writes to tell us Reporters Without Borders has released their annual worldwide press freedom index. While developing nations like Haiti and Mauritania continue to gain ground developed nations like France, Japan, and the US continue their downward spiral. From the article: "The United States (53rd) has fallen nine places since last year, after being in 17th position in the first year of the Index, in 2002. Relations between the media and the Bush administration sharply deteriorated after the president used the pretext of 'national security' to regard as suspicious any journalist who questioned his 'war on terrorism.' The zeal of federal courts which, unlike those in 33 US states, refuse to recognise the media's right not to reveal its sources, even threatens journalists whose investigations have no connection at all with terrorism."
This post has been censored.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Hm, well this isn't from Fox News, so it's blatantly just not true.
I only accept news from reputable, unbiased news sources.
"It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
This post has definately not been censored by anyone, especially anyone in government.
P.S. I love America.
#1 non-European country baby! ...er.. yeah :)
The fact that you can complain about it here like the above says we're not *that* bad yet. If you stop seeing anyone complaining at all, then you know things are REALLY bad... those people are being censored/arrested/etc.
stuff |
I wonder if they take into account such matters as government presence and control in media (since this is inversely proportional to how free the press and media are). It's kind of high in the UK (BBC) and kind of low in the US (as indicated by the low ratings of PBS and NPR, and how nobody really knows about VOA).
Finland, the #1 country, actually has strong government-controlled media (with government radio making up 61% of listening time).
Where were you when the voynix came?
The problem with RSF ranking of countries is that it does not make a difference between institutions (basically, the government) threatening journalists and individuals or groups not linked to the government. So if some islamist group threatens, say, danish journalists/cartoonists, the ranking of Danemark will go down. That does not mean Danish journalists are not free to report on whatever they want. So what you see in this country ranking is that countries that are not involved in "world affairs" have a high ranking, while countries that are rather large, with numerous minorities and a voice in world affairs are lower. I think RSF (which has an important role to play) should provide a more sophisticated ranking than this all-in-one rubbish.
I'll do it for cheesy poofs.
Huh? Theres millions of Americans with the viewpoint that we do TOO MUCH for other countries. It gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling to help others, sure. The rest of the world isn't our problem though.. IMO the problem is they need to focus more on American citizens and less on being big brother to the rest of the world.
Simply read the following page, here they explain their methodology.
Nice troll. RSF simply assumes journalists should be granted the following rights:
As a side note: your comments clearly reveals your lack of understanding of even the most basic universal human rights.
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Since Slashdot is a web-based news site and forum, and not a newsgroup, I have to ask: which newsgroup did you copy this post from, and who was the original author?
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
FTFA:
``Denmark (19th) dropped from joint first place because of serious threats against the authors of the Mohammed cartoons published there in autumn 2005. For the first time in recent years in a country that is very observant of civil liberties, journalists had to have police protection due to threats against them because of their work.''
I don't see how this is supposed to work. These threats didn't come from the government (at least, it seems that way); in fact, the government _protected_ the journalists. And now, for thanks, they get a worse rating?
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
That's not a bit of yellow-yournalism is it? The examples they give are very different than what the above sentence says, in fact they don't give any examples of reporters being treated suspiciously for merely questioning his "war on terrorsim", they do give examples of other things that are bad.
By tring to throw in a completely un-needed "soundbite hook" like that they really do a disservice to their report, and it makes it look like they are doing a biased hatchet job than rather than a real report. That sentence does nothing for their report at all, other than give an opportunity for people to dicredit it.
Did anything in it advocate the common ownership of the means of production? Or a centrally planned economy? Or high taxation of the rich to fund a comprehensive welfare state and public services?
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
11. Americans abroad are patronising and arrogant in other countries, and look down on local customs and mores as being inferior, quaint, and/or silly - and make this opinion obvious and loudly
12. Americans are blind to many of their own people who live in poverty and without access to decent health care, and their gov't ignore their plight even when a disaster unfolds which attracts the attention of the world
13. American's espousal of greed and selfishness exudes from many TV programs whilst their gov't takes the moral high ground
14. The war in iraq, the prison camps, the secret flights carrying prisoners to countries where they can be tortured, the gov't ignoring the Geneva Convention and even making torture perfectly legal...
15. The trampling of their own citizens rights as corporations bribe their way into positions of influence
May Peace Prevail On Earth
Reporters are able to tell a lot of the stories that they do because their sources can remain anonymous. For example, let's say that a person in a position of great power was doing something highly illegal. An inside source discovers this, and informs the press anonymously. There's a huge investigation where the officials try to discover the leak, as the source leaked confidential information. Here's where the story branches into three.
1) The reporter is imprisoned for not telling the authorities their source. Future whistleblowers fear being turned in by the reporters, and do nothing when things of this nature occur.
2) The reporter reveals all. Future whistleblowers are even more hesitant about revealing things of this nature.
3) The reporter is protected by the courts, and is not required to divulge the source.
Which of these do you think is optimal? The press is here to tell us stories of importance, nothing more. They are not policemen. They are supposed to operate independently of the government. They are supposed to tell us what they see. They are supposed to go to secret places and talk to secret people to bring us important information. If they are unable to tell us some of these secrets for whatever reason (wartime operations, anonymous sources, fugitives, etc), then they should under no circumstances be forced to reveal this information.
In my books, it's the most important freedom that the press has. Nixon might never have been impeached if reporters had functioned as you say they should.
I highly disagree with you. Sure, there are a lot of reporters who are bottom feeding fucktards, but saying that lessening their freedoms because of a lot of jackholes is a slippery slope. For example, we in most developed countries have freedom of speech. A lot of people use this freedom of speech to call eachother asshats, promote racism, speak lies, misinformation and nonsense... but I feel more comfortable tolerating all that stuff than having it banned.
Huh? Theres millions of Americans with the viewpoint that we do TOO MUCH for other countries. It gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling to help others, sure. The rest of the world isn't our problem though..
trouble is USA doesn't "help" anyone without huge caveats for themselves, want that food aid ? then you have to do [insert corp agenda here] first, like the bilateral warcrimes agreements (no aid if USA commit war crimes and you might prosecute us) or abstinence instead of condoms in Africa to stop AIDS, people see these all underhand dealings and see the "help" offered for what it really is
and the rest of the world is your problem, that is if you want to stop them wanting to fly airplanes into your assets
It ranks India 105, mainly because it thinks one big Govt of India banned or censored the publication of the Danish Mohammad cartoons. What really happened was real vote bank politics very familiar to most Americans. India is a democracy with about 85 Hindus, 12% Muslims and the rest Christians and other smaller minorities. The Muslims vote as a block and all the political parties fall all over themselves, including the ruling Congress Party [*] to get that vote block. Hindu vote is split midway and the Muslims form the swing vote minority. State governments would routinely ban anything that offends Muslims and Christians. Or anything the self proclaimed leaders of Christians and Muslims declare that offends them. There is open season on Hindus. India should rank much closer to USA in this respect.
If you look at the way Indian media portrays Hindus, Hindu deities and Hindu practices, something startling will emerge, which is again familiar to most Americans. Lurid details about financial, sexual and criminal activities by Hindu holymen is order of the day. A Muslim painter painted Hindu goddess of learning in the nude and all these reporters staunchly defended the freedom of expression of the artist, much like they defended the disgusting portrayal of Christ in a dirty bodily fluid in USA. Infact the mainstream Indian media's treatment of Hindus identical to the mainstream American media's portrayal of Christians in USA
As for exposing corruption of the politicians, they record politicians taking bribes in hidden camera and broadcast it in National News. The only difference between India and USA is that, in India there is no Fox News for Hindus. But rest assured, it will come soon. Robert Murdoch owns quite a few networks there, and there is this seething discontent among the Hindus for being constantly portrayed negatively. It is a free market there. Someone is bound to serve that market.
PS: The ruling party Congress is headed by a Roman Catholic Italian woman, widow of an assassinated ex Prime Minister. The President of India is a Muslim, nuclear/rocket scientist nominated to that office by the previous government largely declared to be a Hindu nationalist party. The previous defence minster was George Fernandes, a Christian. A country of 1 billion, 85% Hindu, 12% Muslim routinely elevates microscopic minority people (present Prime Minister is a Sikh) to the highest offices. When you despair about democracy, take heart. If Democracy can thrive in such a poor country like India, it can thrive anywhere.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Since the report was recently released (yesterday), I wonder if the US' ranking includes the fact that habeas corpus has more or less been abolished for any US citizen that the president deems to be an "enemy combatant"?? I'm guessing that after the election, there are going to be journalists who will be shut down (read: vanish) on the grounds that they are undermining the War on Terror(tm) by vocalizing criticism of administration policy.
Then again, as a journalist, I'm a little bit biased in favor of the first amendment (for everyone, not just my viewpoint).
Transistors and Beer!!
Well different people have different ideas of what it means for the press to be free. For me, the right not to reveal sources is not fundamental to the freedom of press. On the other hand, many of these countries ranking high in "freedom of press" outlaw "hate speech". I consider the ability to speak one's opinion, no matter how nasty it is, as a necessary prerequisite for freedom of speech. So if you change those two aspects of the rankings, I imagine the ordering would change dramatically.
I'm not rah rah about the freedom of press as it currently stands in the US. The report points out some valid criticisms, and the Bush administration's tendency to be less and less transparent under the guise of national security worries me.
But the methodology of this report is a bit question-begging if we can't all agree on what it means for the press to be "free".
Funny how this argument comes from Europeans, Canadians, etc. that spend all their time telling Americans that their culture is crap, their entertainment is crap, they're fat, they're stupid, they're too religious, they have too many guns, they're too prudish when it comes to sex and too liberal when it comes to violence, we need to provide universal health care, etc. In other words, we need to be more like European countries, because they have everything figured out and do everything the right way.
But we're the ones who aren't accepting of other people's culture and way of life...
IMO the problem is they need to focus more on American citizens and less on being big brother to the rest of the world.
I agree. And I'm quite sure, a LOT of countries all over the world will agree, too.
Especially countries that have been "helped" recently.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Based on per-capita giving, America is almost dead last among first-world nations.
While the blurb headline may be construed as US-bashing, TFA does nothing of the sort, and shows that RSF has made a serious effort to measure freedom of the press. Also, the article merely confirms what everyone's been able to observe over the past few years. I see no FUD here, just a statement of fact.
One correction here: several countries have used poison gas in warfare.
Now, come on. We're all geeks here, we know our Boolean logic. The statement was quite correct, although misleading. The US is indeed the only country to have used nuclear weapons AND poison gas. Many countries have used nuclear weapons OR poison gas, but that's a very different statement.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
What I find the most amazing here is that you americans are bitching about how the ranking is made, but not stuff like this:
:)
Freelance journalist and blogger Josh Wolf was imprisoned when he refused to hand over his video archives. Sudanese cameraman Sami al-Haj, who works for the pan-Arab broadcaster Al-Jazeera, has been held without trial since June 2002 at the US military base at Guantanamo, and Associated Press photographer Bilal Hussein has been held by US authorities in Iraq since April this year.
Land of the "free" eh?
Anyways I'm proud to be finnish, we've been #1 since the first index was made in 2002
I won't comment on being arrested for questioning the Holocaust, but in the other cases you pointed out (Denmark and Netherlands) the oppression is not caused by the government of those countries, but rather by people from a faith that doesn't believe in individual freedom.
Stupidity is an equal opportunity striker.
Fellow slashdotter Bill Dog
Just outside the visual spectrum, on the other end lies Uvland.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Take a look at this page, where you can find a list of attacks against freedom of the press, that were committed in, or by, the United States and its administration.
You can agree -- or disagree -- with this list, but the fact is that there is a basis for the US low ranking.
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
It may be that in the case of well established democracies, like the UK and Finland, there is never the need to criticize to the point where a journalist could get in trouble. Sure the press can ridicule and criticize the ruling party, but what happens when they start ridiculing and criticizing the system itself? Doing things like calling for a theocracy, or for the queen to be arrested? I think you'd quickly see the government asserting their control over the press with a heavy hand.
Of course, calling for a theocracy or arrest of royalty would be a crazy thing to do and will probably never happen in countries like modern Britain and Finland, since everything is going fairly well. Some of those countries who rank low on this freedom-of-press scale may not be so bad when it comes to press freedom, it's just that the country itself is so messed up that the solutions border on treason, so when the journalists call for the proper solution, they get in trouble.
There are several countries I can think of that, since the end of the cold war, have been able to get a fledgling democracy going. But at the same time there are factions still trying to instigate war, or otherwise topple the government. The press in places like that may be allowed to criticize the current president or prime minister and the way they do things, but as soon as they criticize the system itself as a whole, they are considered to be siding with insurgents/revolutionaries. Which may actually be the right thing to do if the government is turning totalitarian.
So, it may be fine to have state sponsored media when things are all well and good, but when things go sour it might be better to have some media that is completely, politically and economically, independent of any part of the government.
That's what they do. They are called suicide bombers for that reason.
Earnestly: There are still more U.S. citizens dying because they choke on a fishbone (about 2500 each year) than because of terrorism. Puts things to perspective, doesn't it?
I suppose we're up for another healthy round of "bash Americ(kkk)a"? Please folks let's just give it all a rest.
Let's see what we've got - the most egregious case of a reporter being prosecuted for refusing to reveal a source was the now infamous Plame "outing". Do I need to bother pointing out that it was the media's incessant demands for an investigation that led to this in the first place?
Maybe we should instead look at the NYT's public editor's recent mea culpa where he admitted that the NYT shouldn't have broken the story about the SWIFT monitoring? Turns out that the program was secret, effective, and *gasp* legal. Oh well, NYT and the LAT got their scoop, secrets be damned.
If we want to talk about press freedom how about we get worked up about the cartoon drawers who have had to go into hiding? How about the newspaper editors who have been killed? How about the riots that emerge anytime anyone even breaths something that could be misconstrued as insulting to Islam.
Here's your press freedom quiz:
1) You're reporting on riots caused by the release of some political cartoons. Do you show the cartoons?
2) You're reporting on Iraq and you receive an obvious propoganda video of sniper shooting, do you show the video?
CNN's answer was No and Yes, you can guess which order those were in.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Sadly, this country has been hijacked by those that use knee-jerk reactions and fear as their tools to stay in power, and those of us who can think logically about the rather small threat that terrorism presents are seen as "pro terrorist" since we don't want to give up the ideas this country was founded on, in order to have the illusion of safety.
I don't like either party all that much, but since I know they're not going to go away, can we at least go back to the system where repubs had the house and dems had the senate (or vice versa) so they'll simply spend all their time arguing and none of their time doing things that take away my rights or otherwise hurt me?
Now what happens if those classified documents reveal the fact that the government has been conducting illegal activities, say something like wiretaps with no court orders? How is that not just another form of whistleblowing?
Personally, I'm not willing to give the government carte blanche to do whatever they want by just making it classified.
Freedom of the press exists as a quasi-check on the government and I believe the current administration is trying to supress the presses ability to gain access to documents to avoid public scrutiny.
When was the last time the press published something classified that actually harmed this country as opposed to bringing to light some kind of power grab by the administration?
Your comments are legitimate. But you also need to consider that one of the US' greatest exports is its media -- music, books, magazines, movies. The US State Department is VERY aggressive at making sure all of its trading partners have open markets to US product. Unfortunately most of the rest of the world doesn't consider culture = product. When there's a KFC 100' from the base of the pyramids, I think the world has just become a slightly less interesting place.
In canada we have an anachronistic, painful, paternalistic system called CANCON (canadian content) which mandates various %s of broadcast media/sales must be Canadian originating. Its an ugly system, but living so close the the US (and being so similar) its necessary to give some market niches breathing room. In music, alot of groups get a good starting base in Canada and then go onto larger fame, unlike 30-40 years ago when Joni Mitchell and Neil Young HAD to go to the US if they wanted to pursue music.
I think the bigger issue is that with the US national media being so insular, that when (many) americans travel abroad they're not appreciative of the differences between themselves and others. Its not that US is better or France is better, its that France does things differently and that's okay too.
And for the record, I've seen Canadians act like drunken idiots abroad and make me cringe, and German tourists are a species unto themselves.
John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
People around the world need to realize that US Citizens and the US Government are two different things. Ideally the US Citizens should control the US Government, but realistically we don't. If you think it is so easy, then become a US Citizen or better yet a US Politician and help change it. By the way millions of US Citizens help people in other countries all the time, but without the help of our government it makes the process take longer.
Can I bum a sig?
Well different people have different ideas of what it means for the press to be free. For me, the right not to reveal sources is not fundamental to the freedom of press. On the other hand, many of these countries ranking high in "freedom of press" outlaw "hate speech". I consider the ability to speak one's opinion, no matter how nasty it is, as a necessary prerequisite for freedom of speech. So if you change those two aspects of the rankings, I imagine the ordering would change dramatically.
Free press is about reporting facts ; if a journalist can't assure his sources anonymity, some won't talk, and the press is matter of fatly gaged. On the other hand, hate speech is *not* free press. It is unfounded opinions, based on biaised facts - or no fact at all, and while I agree it should not be prosecuted, it's absolutely not in the same league.
"I heard this story about an American who visited once
I have travelled to 25 countries round the world, to USA many times, spanning four continents. I many many cases I have seen people treat Americans obsequiously, in a transparently patronising manner, because of their wealth, and yet the moment the American is gone the hatred is clear. In one country, I was with a group of tourists, with an American party, and only once I said I was English not American did the non-Americans even acknowledge my existence. I have noticed Canadians explain the same and seen an instant change of attitude.
If you're American, and offended, don't be - just remind yourself that yours is NOT the only way of life, and that the people who represent you both formally and informally on the world's stage do NOT give a very good impression, and that maybe it's about time you made your gov't accountable to the people, and put a stop to the corruption and crap dished out. Even Condy Rice admitted that the USA's stance on Iraq has been a disaster.
how about 10 or 20 ? http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_aid_don
enjoy
Yes, everyone in the US is absolutely rich, and we have streets of gold and pay people to wipe our arses for us. Would that were true - the reality is, the US is not the cheapest place in the world to live. However, the per-capita card never seems to take that into account.
According to many, cost of living in the USA is cheaper then say most of north-west Europe. This is also my experience from having lived in both the USA and the EU. Despite that, per-capita spending on support for developing nations in the EU is higher then in the USA. Conclusion can only be that while your argument makes sense at first glance, reality shows it wrong.
it's that you refuse to see anything good about the US. No-one is perfect.
I think that that is a response to how many an American deals with any form of critisism whatsoever. If you are not perfect, thats fine, thats just human, and no different from the rest of us. The issue is that the first thing you should do when you realize that you are not perfect is to start listening to others who do see the imperfactions.
As it is however, pointing out any imperfections of the USA gets you a combination of the following:
- being dismissed as anti-american.
This is really stupid, your enemies won't point out your mistakes, they will abuse them.
- screaming and raving about the imperfection not existing.
No chance on fixing anything when you refuse to see it
- pointing at others who make similar or at times even unrelated mistakes.
A strawman argument, someone elses mistakes don't justify your own mistakes.
The problem is you feeling attacked instead of taking note and trying to improve.
Yes, you are missing something. Divert your eyes to the right sidebar of the page. There are sections called "In this country" and "Reports", which contain more info.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
My point is the US gets blamed for doing nothing and for doing anything. No one is stopping any of the European nations from stopping the genocide in darfur. No one was stopping anyone from stopping it in Rwanda or intervening in Somalia. I'm saying that more often than not the US is the only nation that does anything to help while other nations do nothing except for sit back on the sideline and criticize.
"In the game of life, someone always has to lose. To me, if life were fair, that someone would always be Oklahoma." -DKR
I don't mind striking back, but it has to stay somewhat in proportion. Assuming Bush was right about Osama being supported by the Taliban, what is the appropriate response for 3000 dead in the WTC? Invading the country and toppling their government?
Yes I think so, but that should be enough. If you turn it into a worldwide "War On Terror", you will step on a lot of people's toes who really had nothing to do with September 11th, and create a lot of new terrorists in the process.
Thus I was (despite some doubts) in favor of taking out the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. But the invasion of Iraq is an unmitigated disaster.
C - the footgun of programming languages
People around the world need to realize that US Citizens and the US Government are two different things.
That's as maybe, but the same applies to a lot of US citizens who railed against the French for their criticisms of Gulf War 2 ("freedom fries", anyone?), etc. Speaking of a country (or indeed any group of people) as though everyone in it holds identical viewpoints is hardly a solely non-American trait.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
But when Katrina hit New Orleans, what other country (besides my Canada) offered aid or assistance to the US?
... The State Department said offers so far had come from Belgium, Canada, Russia, Japan, France, Germany, Britain, China, Australia, Jamaica, Honduras, Greece, Venezuela, the Organization of American States, NATO, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, South Korea, Israel and the United Arab Emirates."
From the first hit on google for "katrina international aid":
Sue Pleming, "Foreign governments line up to help after Katrina," Reuters AlterNet, September 2, 2005: "The United Nations offered to help coordinate international relief efforts for the United States.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
only once I said I was English not American did the non-Americans even acknowledge my existence
This is becasue of the stereotype associated with a typical American. Basically it is as follows:
"Americans are the best hosts in the world, however they make the lousiest guests"
And it's a stereotype that persists because it is largely true. I have travelled the US extensively and can say first hand that American people treat visitors like their own families (perhaps even better). Hospitality and service is second-to-none. The food is delicious (and big....y'all have REALLY BIG FOOD in most of the US...and not very heart-healthy....but it's very tasty). People are very knowledgable about their locality and will not hesitate to offer you their assistance in making your stay an enjoyable one. Contrast this level of hospitality and service to what is offered in "friendly Canada". Service and hospitality in Canada is utter crap in comparison...service is polite and friendly but not considerate---tourists have to ask for help even if it is obvious by their appearance. People do not know their own back yards, there is no attention to detail and not the level of pride in their homeland as compared with the US. It is quite a noticeable difference in culture given that these two countries share the same language and land mass and have so much culteral cross-pollination.
The case of a US tourist in another country is the exact opposite situation. The US Tourist sees himself as an HONOURED GUEST. They expect (some would say demand) the same kind of treatment that they would give to an honoured guest back home. "Heck, we liberated your continent you should at least show your respect" some might be thinking as they travel Europe (never mind that the British Commmonwealth just kinda-sorta helped out with that liberation-of-Europe thing too). When in Canada the American Tourist gets annoyed at the lack of consideration, attention-to-detail and so on. In some parts of Europe, where offering a modicum of hospitality is seem as some great favour, it gets even worse--the American Tourist gets angry. Not only are the locals offended by the thought of having to bow down and treat the American Tourist as royalty, they are also afraid of the consequences--they don't want confrontation. Thus, the poor American Tourist is simply avoided entirely by the locals whenever possible.
Canadians aren't THAT much different culturally from the Americans, but as is the case with how each country treats its tourists, Canadians behave much differently as tourists. This is where the "quiet, polite, friendly-but-boring Canadian" stereotype comes from. As a guest, the Canadian feels grateful for being accomodated and doesn't want to put the host out. The Canadian Tourist says "sorry" for the slightest inconvenience put upon the host, and "thank you" for the slightest little favour. And to one degree or another many other cultures are the same. This is why a tourist with a Canadian flag is catered to much more warmly overseas...they are simply great guests. That above all (including current and past foreign policy) has to do with how tourists are treated.
I do agree with the parent poster here...to the American Tourists out there, remember that not everyone shares your way of live, nor wants to...and when you are a guest in another nation do try to be a GOOD guest and leave a good impression. I'd like to add to that however--TO EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD: Americans may have a brash way of living but they have a level of civic pride that is sorely lacking in the rest of the world. Take your own advice, live and let live. Furthermore, visit the USA and learn what it is to have real pride in your homeland and HOW TO BE GOOD HOSTS.
If we simply learned more from one another then the world would be a much better place. After that things like foreign policy in the middle east and institutional reform in government would work themselves out much more smoothly as well.
Why not believe both sets of numbers? The first was about economic aid to poor countries, and the second counted all volunteering and giving. Donating money to the ACLU, or to Pat Robertson, is not likely to help poorer countries, so would be counted in the second set of statistics, but not the first. Right?
> Thus I was (despite some doubts) in favor of taking out the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. But the invasion of Iraq is an unmitigated disaster.
Sorry to disillusion you, but things are not going well in Afghanistan. Very good, the govt. was toppled and a new one put in. Unfortunately, that doesn't by default leave things in a stable condition; in fact things could be worse than they were before in the future.
Sure staying the course might help - but it is untenable to do so, the more soldiers die. It is unlikely to be so very long now before the British are forced to withdraw; and this is partly *because* they have put more troops in and made a huge effort. There have been a lot (as far as the UK are concerned) of British soldiers dying in Afghanistan in the last while. And other countries are having a tough time and didn't even want to put more troops in.
Pakistan is right to be worried about the Taleban just coming back in again, stronger than ever.
You can't just go around the world willy-nilly toppling governments by force just because they are awful govts, or allow a base of operations for terrorists (poor/unsupported govt. or lack of govt. allows this too). And it for sure is not Christian (look up Christian teachings on govt. and authority - or just look at Jesus' take on the Roman occupation of Israel) - which is ironic considering Bush and a particular segment of his support.
-- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...