Transferring Domains from Uncooperative Registrar?

An anonymous reader asks: "What do you do when your registrar hangs you out to dry? I have a domain that was registered with a registrar that no longer exists. The original registrar was bought out by another, who is a reseller for a third registrar. After the buyout they never got my domain to work properly with their billing system, with the result that I cannot transfer the domain (they say they cannot release registrar-lock) and cannot renew it via their online system, meaning that I have to call them on the phone. Several weeks ago, my registrar took my renewal payment for two years, and charged my credit card, but never renewed the domain. They expired it and redirected the web accesses to their parking page, which consists of spam links. I've emailed and called them several times since, with the result that they no longer answer my email or phone calls. I can't find any clear documentation at ICANN about this, as it all seems to be geared toward transfers from uncooperative web hosts or copyright holders. Do I have any recourse in this case, or am I simply screwed?"

Comments

contact ICANN

[TheSHAD0W]

Give them documentation for the credit card charge and for your prior ownership; hopefully they'll restore your ownership and yank that registrar's license.

Who

[TLouden]

I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering who the registrar is

Re:Who

[8-bitDesigner]

eNom, perchance? I've got a client who had the same thing happen to their domain, and every attempt to contact the registrar has just flat out failed, including calling the phone number attached to the bloody Whois record.

Hell, I just got the annual "Update your records!" email from a half-dozen registrars at ICANN, and I can't help but find the irony in a registrar having inaccurate Whois records.

Get a lawyer

[mysidia]

I don't think ICANN will offer you much recourse, and you may need to take legal action. Hence I say, hire a real lawyer to advise you properly.

In my estimation, you will probably be needing to contact them by sending a letter through certified mail, include a notice of their breach of the agreement, and demand they cooperate with your transfer of registration to alternative registrar, include the details.

Put them on official notice ASAP, spell out the details of how they are breaking your agreement to renew the domain, and what you demand of them immediately, and in the future, so they cannot claim ignorance, or that they "never received the message".

And be prepared to sue the registrar, if they won't make you whole. Bottom line: by expiring your domain, they fail to honor an agreement. By interfering with the proper transfer of your domain, they are injuring you.

Snipe it

[invisik]

Reverse the charges on your credit card asap. Then, let your domain expire and snipe your own domain back with another registrar.

http://searchwebservices.techtarget.com/sDefinitio n/0,,sid26_gci810538,00.html

There is a probability that it won't work, but there's not much else to do without a team of lawyers.

Good luck.

-m

Re:Snipe it

[mysidia]

Actually.. I think disputing the charges should be done as a last resort, if you decide it is futile, and you will just surrender the domain (allow them to expire it).

Once you succeed with a dispute, you will no longer have paid for the very domain you didn't want expired; you might have a heck of a time convincing a judge that you should get to keep both the domain and the money.

It may be more beneficial even to do research and prepare the paperwork + evidence gathering yourself, to petition for judgement, whether in real court, or small claims. Assuming they fail to provide a satisfactory response to letters you can prove they received.

I am assuming the nominal charge for the domain is not in fact the major issue, that you wouldn't be happy at all if you had to switch domains, or it would cost you significantly more than the registration fees, if you were to lose the domain to someone else.

Re:Snipe it

[smbarbour]

As someone who works in the credit card industry, I have some insight into the process. (I'm in IT, and as such, for whatever reason, I'm somehow expected to know everything. It's "information" after all.)

The cardholder first contacts his or her issuer (the cardholder's processor) to dispute the charge. Then, the issuer initiates a retrieval request on the transaction. The acquirer (the merchant's processor), receives the retrieval request and contacts the merchant for information on the transaction (There is a time limit of 21 days, IIRC, to submit the information to the requester). The information required is the transaction data and proof that the purchased "merchandise" was "delivered".

If the merchant fails to prove that the transaction was valid, the chargeback is issued, and the acquirer pays the issuer who pays the cardholder. After that, the acquirer does whatever is necessary to recover the funds from the merchant. In our case, we withhold funding until it is paid, and if that doesn't work, it is reported as income for the merchant to the IRS (via a Form 1099)

Unless you want to get a lawyer, you're screwed.

[Banner]

A friend of mine went through something like this. He registered his domains under his internet nickname, but paid under his real name. Now they won't allow him to do anything unless he comes up with a legal ID that has his nickname on it. They don't care that he was paying with his legal name for the last X years.

So he's waiting for the domain to expire so he can pick it up under his real name. The registar (godaddy) refuses to help at all and he feels a lawyer is a waste of money. So for now he's stuck waiting because godaddy puts all expired domains up for auction for a period of days (registars should NOT be allowed to auction expired domains, conflict of interest - especially when they're causing the expiration).

I suspect many of the people out there who are currently parking domains and putting them up for auction are probably the registars, because it doesn't appear that they have to pay to register open domains, so why not speculate if it's free?

I'm not so sure that the new system is cheaper or easier than the old one. Back in the old days at least a phone call always could clear up any problems.

Re:Your first step

[maxwells_deamon]

I would be worried about this approach. If they just give back the money in responce to the request from the credit card company, he losses the domain.

The certified letter or lawyer are the best approach

Screw ICANN, call your credit card company

[egarland]

Charging you for services and then not providing them is something credit card companies go after vigorously. Call your credit card company and complain. Most likely a significant percentage of their income comes in through credit cards and having Visa or MasterCard blacklist them would be something that would impact them deeply so when their investigator starts poking into things they'll pay attention.

At the very least you should be able to get your renewal fee back.

Best advice I can give you is

[onehalf]

"If you ever accidentally drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let 'em go, because man, they're gone." --Jack Handy

Just replace keys with your domain name.

E-Mail Them

[Greyfox]

And CC the ICANN Registrar accreditation board. I did that to a bothersome registrar a while back who couldn't get my domain working with their service (Their software couldn't understand me running my own DNS server.) Honestly I wasn't really expecting anything from them but they refunded my payment and released my domain so that I could re-register it with NSI. As much of a pain in the ass as NSI is, they still seem to be a lot better to deal with than most of their competition (And no I don't work for them or anything.)

Re:E-Mail Them

[dizzy8578]

network solutions?

It took me 7 years to get my email address updated so I could move a domain of to another registrar. I filed changes starting with the text form we all used to use 3 times, used the web forms 4 times and called and faxed letterhead 3 times. I finally got it released by transfering it to a friend in the UK.

I have no domains on NSI now but I must admint the web interface now, finally works. I am pretty sure it would not be usable without the competition of the cut rate registrars.

Anyone who has used NSI since the early 90s probably has at least one similar horror story.

Domain parking

[silas_moeckel]

Sounds like your registrar made a deal with vivendi(sp) or similar I worked at a hosting/domain shop and they were very aggressive in wanting to buy a lot of our expiring domains for parking page ads. Look at it this way about half of domains names registered are left to expire, now the ones that had content can make back there registration fee's and more in the next year with search engine spam parking pages and the like, not much more but some. I say this because an expired domain name should go nowhere at all until the mandatory hold by verisign has expired and it is deleted.

Now with that being said, as long as your contact info is still in whois for the domain you can work with the receiving registrar to get it transfered, I would suggest paying for Verisign or similar as a cut rate registrar isn't gong to spend the time to make 50 cents and you can transfer to a cut rate company after that. If your name isn't on the whois but the object creation date is still when your bought it then it has been stolen check the change logs to see when your name was removed.

ICANN FAQs. Also contact name server

[billstewart]

You might try contacing whoever's running the nameserver that's got your domain on it to point it at your own servers, if they're not the same as the miscreants.

ICANN FAQ on Domain Registrar Problems.

ICANN Transfer Policies

ICANN Transfer Dispute Resolution Policy.

You may end up having to pay the miscreants a transfer fee. They do have to release registrar locks in a reasonable time with some reasonable process, though they can also hold the domain for 60 days after registration.

here are my thoughts...

[Dave Zan]

I'm honestly surprised at many of the answers here. While I understand their feelings about this topic, many of them can actually do more harm than good.

I'm going to add my answers in the hopes of providing an explanation. Some of you don't have to agree with what I'm about to say, but I assure you this is based on how it works having been on both sides of the fence.

First, this is a reality each and every one of us has to expect: your provider can be bought out by another. Any business is negotiable, especially if the price is right.

We've got a lot of Mergers & Acquisitions (M&A) going on for the past 2 years. Last I checked one registrar bought about 2-3.

One problem with these M&As is that things can go haywire when they finally start trying to make domain names with registrar (or reseller) A work with the systems of registrar (or reseller) B. No one knows if extensive testing was done, but this is definitely a requirement to ensure problems are kept to a minimum if not completely eliminated (the latter's better, of course).

As that reader complained (whoever s/he was), they never got the domain name to work with their systems (especially billing). So the reader couldn't unlock it nor renew or whatever.

I have an idea who this company is. And their circumstances is rather...unique.

The reader can complain to ICANN. Although ICANN doesn't get involved in individual customer complaints with registrars, similar to the FTC they monitor registrars' "trends" for any consistent patterns they detect and take it up with them.

To those who suggested disputing the credit card charges: I hate to say this but that should be a LAST resort. Domain registrars treat credit card disputes and chargebacks VERY seriously (especially fraud cases).

The moment they receive notice of such, they'll immediately lock up/suspend any domain name account/s whose first and last name matches that of the disputed credit card. I know it's unfair for many of you, but you have to realize that domain registrars, like any other business, have to protect themselves as much as possible.

Tell you what: if you've got the reader's contact details (or know the reader), ask him/her to contact me via email at DaveZan AT DaveZan DOT com (just change AT to @ and DOT to .). I can't promise miracles (no one can except God), but I can offer suggestions and alternatives based on whatever specific details I'm provided.

If the registrar's who I think it is, I might even know one of their people. But again, I need specifics.

Thanks.