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Taking Bully Seriously?
simoniker writes "There's been plenty of controversy about Rockstar's PS2 title Bully, but does it actually have anything to teach players? Ian Bogost looks into whether the game actually has a social message, explaining: 'Taking Bully seriously means acknowledging that the game has something to say about the world, not just that the world has something to say about it. It means assessing how effectively the game tackles the topic of bullying and how meaningful its claims about it are.' His conclusion? 'Sweeping away all the dust that Bully left in the wake of its release, it's hard to defend the game, not because it might be a pubic nuisance or a danger to kids, but because it could have been so much more of a scathing critique of high school social politics than it turned out to be.'"
I don't know about the rest of you, but when I play a video game, I don't want a "scathing critique of high school social politics," or anything else for that matter. I want something that entertains and engages me. Whatever happened to fun for fun's sake?!?
I want to play Bully. Not because I want to run around beating up children or because I think the whole premise is amusing, but because the plot and story seem different and new compared to the current crop of games. I am sick to the back teeth of Animal Crossing: Wild World. It doesn't follow that I do not appreciate the seriousness of bullying or understand the horrendous burden placed upon the bullied.
Some people just need to take a deep breath and realise that entertainment = entertainment and that if they do not feel it is commensurate with their own agenda or message, they should do a better job themselves of getting that message out, rather than hoping other agencies/industries will.
hehe he said pubic.
My one thought of bully, as a kid who was bullied mercilessly at school, is that perhaps people will see it from the other side of the fence. Computer games are interesting in that they can make the player develop empathy with characters. I wonder what I might learn from it, and I wonder what bullies might learn from it. No, I'm not expecting some radical change in school-yard pathos, but don't forget that computer games used to be the great nerd activity. If the lines between nerd and bully blur, what will people be picked on for? My guess is the same usual things - physical differences; those elements deeply ingrained in humanity. I'm waiting for the game 'Human' in which the player must slaughter enemy tribes and steal their women. I wonder what I might learn from it.
Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
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Even as a game we can have an interesting social commentary in it. But in the end, games are about having fun, and Rockstar isn't known for their social commentary, they are known for open world game play.
I do agree Rockstar can use better writers, their characters aren't exactly inspired (unless inspired means "We just used Tony Montana and gave him a little Ray Liotta acting") So them trying to give a social commentary would be like monkeys acting out shakespeare. You won't get the point, but it could be entertaining, or sad.
Anyone expecting something better than what they got from bully needs to realize that outside of GTA Rockstar isn't a "solid company" they aren't even a good company in most respects. The best thing they can do is just make GTA styled games. If you want social commentary go talk to or read a 14 year olds live journal or blog. Want less angst go watch something like the basketball diaries. For the rest of us I think it's better we get fun games than games that are impactful, it's great when games are both, but it's a rare occurrence, and definitely not something Rockstar has ever attempted (noticeably) or is likely to exceed at.
I take bullying very seriously, because the game is fun to play
Bullying happens. People messing with other people happens. As long as humans are humans men and women will seek ways to prove to themselves and others that they are superior to the next guy or gal. Growing up means learning how to adapt to these unchanging facts of life. Videogames aren't going to change hard-coded human nature.
Shrill moralizing gasbags like this Bogost guy are just Jack Thompson and Hillary Clinton in touchy-feely garb. Rockstar's job in developing Bully was to make an entertaining game, not to push some progressive agenda; it's still up in the air whether they've succeeded, but they aren't under any obligation to forward anyone's notions of making the world a better place.
... not because I expect a fully realized system of high-school popularity politics, but because I want to play Skool Daze 2006 in glorious 3D. So far as I've heard the setting is very much a Beano Annual kind of thing. Elements of Winker Watson, elements of the Bash Street Kids. All done with a GTA engine. Sounds fantastic.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
not because it might be a pubic nuisance or a danger to kids
Does the game come with a STD or what?
Oh noes, Jack Thompson is going to have a field day with this new "pubic nuisance" feature!
I want someone to make a Concentration Camp game where you play the Nazis and see if it causes a ruckes near as big as a game about schoolyard bullies.
And if you can match the cards and solve the rebus before the Jews, you get to go through with the Fuehrer's final solution, right?
What I have trouble taking seriously is a site dedicated to assigning an incompatible and unwelcome purpose to games. It seems to me that using games as a vehicle for social commentary is a comically ill-conceived idea. As a gamer, I am not receptive to the appropriation of my hobby for use as a soapbox.
Games are about fun. Since when do they have to worry about including a social message?
Take Mario for example. Bowser is attempting to institute a tyrannical rule over the Mushroom Kingdom. This is fertile ground for a scathing critique of invasion and dictatorships, but that would make a really boring game. What's fun is establishing, yes these are bad guys and then beating the shit out of them :)
I just can't wait for the mod scene to lay hands on this game and make a Hot Coffee mod.
Finally some teen action!
And from what I understand Rockstar even promised some spanking...
Strictly off-record of course.
It may have nothing to say, but its still every picked on geeks dream come true. I can imagine many a young geek will be taking out his frustration with this. If I had this option when I was kid it would have avoided many poundings as I tried and often failed to stick up for myself.
It's called "KZ Manager". "The goal of the game is to keep the camp functioning by keeping the "public opinion" or other important resources and gauges over or under a certain threshold. In one version, public opinion rises when the "manager" executes a number of prisoners with Zyklon B. However, ordering said gas costs money, which can be gathered by forcing the prisoners to work. Spending too much time without a "sufficient" number of executions makes "public satisfaction" drop, and having too few working prisoners will soon drive to a resource shortage, and closing of the camp, thus losing the game."
I think it's a kool idea and plan to give it a spin. Good or bad, I think it's a creative idea, certainly like nothing we've seen before from a video game...
I've said it before and I'll say it again - games aren't JUST for kids, I think us grups can handle a few bullies, or at least have fun tryin.
If you don't like it go play "Hello Kitty Island Adventure" and shaddup.
You had me at merlot
I really can't think of anything I'd be less likely to see/read/watch/participate in than a "critique of high school social politics". Sounds like something shown at 3:15am on the public access station.
I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with games having more depth, but the thoughts they provoke should enhance the game, not make me fall asleep.
People will accept the violence. But the kissing may be over the top for a lot of male gamers.
We all love the lesbians, but male on male still doesn't sell well to the mainstream.
Of course, Jack Thompson did his best to help publicize the game, so we'll have to see how well it does.
How people play the game is the commentary. It and GTA are a reflection of our primitive selves freed from the burden of very real, very serious consequences social, personal, emotional, or otherwise. They reveal that while the lizard in our brains might not be driving, he is in fact in the car.
Was anyone else dissapointed by the lack of historical accuracy in God of War? It was as if they didn't even bother to go to a library.
Though I myself prefer fiction, and the sub-post-modern docudrama style of Conker's Bad Fur Day. The subtext, in that game, really captured the essense of the timeless struggle of Man v. Himself by using poo as a provocative metaphor for the human condition.
I wonder when Nintendo will take a cue from that and hire a better screenplay writer to capture the real Mario, you know? The image of a tortured mushroom addict trying to rescue his feminine identity from the rage built up inside of his own spiked shell of denial and fear.
Yes-yes! Oh, the art of it all.
I mean, seriously. I remember playing this game years ago!
Has this one just become a big deal because the Spectrum couldn't handle full motion 3D graphics? Bully seems to be just a logical evolution of Skool Daze, a game that's over 20 years old now but was great in its time (and I played it recently on a Spectrum emulator and enjoyed the hell out of it, still!). Hell, it even had the "homosexual content" thing down where you could kiss guys, so even that's nothing new.
Having said that, I'm actually looking forward to picking this one up and playing it. I have always enjoyed Rockstar's games and I see no reason I won't enjoy this, too. I doubt it's going to turn me into a bully because (a) I'm not at school; I'm in my 30's and (b) Grand Theft Auto didn't turn me into a carjacking gun-toting villain except maybe for a few hours every few days when I got time to play it! If you seriously can't separate fact from fiction enough to play a game like Bully, then you probably shouldn't go to the movies, or watch TV... or hell read a book!
As a nation that purports to defend the freedom to speak, it's disheartening to hear someone say that any particular speech doesn't warrant defense because it doesn't bring a lot of genuine social good to the table. The right to free speech entitles us to create bad art.
Defending the First Amendment is like stopping bullies: If you only stop them from bullying your friends, you haven't stopped them at all. Please, feel free to not recommend Bully. Feel free to tell us it's a bad game. But don't stop defending it - because you know who's attacking it. This game was almost genuinely censored because a certain someone didn't think it was up to his standards, either.