Indians Use Google Earth and GPS To Protect Amazon

Damien1972 writes "Deep in the most remote jungles of South America, Amazon Indians are using Google Earth, GPS, and other technologies to protect their fast-dwindling home. Tribes in Suriname, Brazil, and Colombia are combining their traditional knowledge of the rainforest with Western technology to conserve forests and maintain ties to their history and cultural traditions. Indians use Google Earth to remotely monitor their lands by checking for signs of miners and GPS to map their lands. "Google Earth is used primarily for vigilance," says Vasco van Roosmalen, program director of a nonprofit involved in the project."

Comments

Best way to ensure conservation

[Harmonious Botch]

The combination of technology and private property looks like the best way to ensure conservation. Make sure the land in question belongs to somebody, so they have an incentive to take care of it; and give them the tech tools to do so. They will do it without taxing others. No EPA budget busting, no snail darter lawsuits, no taking of private property. About the only taxpayer expenses are the maintenance of the cops and judicial system to handle civil or criminal complaints that the tribe may have - and that is mostly a sunk cost anyway.

Sorry to risk starting a political debate ( but after all this is slashdot, so that is effectively a sunk cost too. )

Re:Best way to ensure conservation

[KillerCow]

The combination of technology and private property looks like the best way to ensure conservation. Make sure the land in question belongs to somebody, so they have an incentive to take care of it

The Tragedy of the Commons defeats this argument. If I'm the private owner, why should I spend my money to preserve it when I could make money be selling the land to a clear-cutter? Yes, there's less rain-forest now, but that cost is paid by society, not by me. I personally get net ahead by abusing my piece of the commons.

Individuals do what is best for themselves individually. Collectives can do what is best for the collective. The only way to protect a commons is through government, because it represents the collective of the people.

Re:Best way to ensure conservation

[diersing]

That worked wonder in North America didn't it.

Re:Best way to ensure conservation

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

The Tragedy of the Commons defeats this argument. If I'm the private owner, why should I spend my money to preserve it when I could make money be selling the land to a clear-cutter?

1) Because, as the owner of the land with a vested interest in the land, it is more valuable to you forested (an ongoing resource) than clear-cut (a one-time use). Sure there will be plenty of times when the owner decideds that partial clear-cutting is his ownly choice due to short-term economic problems. But, private ownership is meant to be the least wasteful model, not a utopian (in the classic sense) model.

This article is de facto proof that private ownership of the forest by those with a vested interest in the forest (the native indians) will work.

2) You are trying to use the tragedy of the commons to try to justify the commons (communal ownership of the forest) as the best economic model. Very ironic.

Re:Best way to ensure conservation

[nwbvt]

No, the tragedy of the commons applies when there is no property, and everything is part of the commons. Hence the name, tragedy of the commons. For instance, one could argue that with regard to the atmosphere. We cannot divide the atmosphere up into private lots, and there is no incentive to keep any of it clean.

Re:Best way to ensure conservation

[SnowZero]

The Nature Conservancy is a really nice organization that works that way. A friend who donates to it pointed it out to me. In short, they use donations to buy at-risk land, and also get conservation easements from private land owners who wish to protect their own land. Advocacy organizations can spend lots of money lobbying, and potentially fail anyway, while its extremely difficult to fight someone when they actually own the land.

Too bad they can only stop what happened years ago

[Anonymous Coward]

Those maps are out of date, it'll be useless to find new operations.

Native Americans use Google Earth

[WillAffleckUW]

I don't think they outsourced it to India.

Re:Native Americans use Google Earth

[redfieldp]

Um, yes, that would be Brazil in South AMERICA. Hence, Native AMERICANS.

Re:Native Americans use Google Earth

[WillAffleckUW]

you'll have to excuse some posters. They seem to think America only means the USA, when it refers to two continents.

Just like India is a subcontinent just south of Asia.

A certain Bash.org quote comes to mind

[Mikachu]

Reminds me of a certain bash.org quote...

<Rebbel> Man Google Earth is awesome
<Android18> Why?
<Rebbel> Im looking at my house
<Rebbel> brb, pizzas here
<BFMV> Now thats what i call technology

old data?

[collinong]

since google map and earth data is not at all real time, wouldn't it be hard for them to use these tools to find new encroachments? a forest or jungle could be cut down in the year or two it takes for google to get new sat images up.

oblig. South Park reference

[alexhard]

There's a place called the rainforest; it truly sucks ass. Let's knock it all down and get rid of it fast. You say, "Save the rainforest," but what do you know? You've never been to the rainforest before.

Images were updated by request

[xPsi]

Initially, I thought that their exercise was futile because Google Earth doesn't not have real time images and it is impossible (at a glance, although sometimes you can tell with some detective work) to know when various pictures were taken (e.g. see the Google Earth FAQ). But, it turns out that the group working in the Amazon actively makes requests to Google to update certain images faster so they can legitimately monitor various regions. e.g. from TFA:
""When Google Earth updated these images earlier this year with higher resolution versions, we could find nearly all the disturbances in the forest....We offered the Google Earth team a list of coordinates where it would be helpful to have sharper images. We also discussed the possibility of finding ways to include the Indians' nonproprietary data, as a layer with Indian names, on Google Earth."

Re:Amazonian rainforests

[gustgr]

While mining is a huge problem in South America's tropical forests, there is also the deforestation problem, both for the value of the wood itself and for cleaning the soil in order to expand the agriculture. The Brazilian government, as I can see it as a Brazilian myself, isn't doing nothing at all to prevent this. In fact, one of the biggest producers of soy in Brazil is also governor of Mato Grosso (a state in which there is a reasonable part of the Amazon forest). His farms are located both in Mato Grosso and in Amazonas (the state where the Amazon forest has its greatest coverage). There are a lot of farmers like him, they take down the trees, sell the woods and then plant soy on the cleaned area.

Brazilian government is actually proud to be in the head at a time when Brazil is exporting soy (and others commodities) as hell. Brazil is not the only guilt though. The buyers (mainly from Europe) should reject soy that was planted on former forest's territory, cattle (meat) created on former forest's territory, etc.

Re:Too bad they can only stop what happened years

[ArcherB]

This is not a troll! Whoever modded this should be meta-moderated out of existence!

I was going to say the same thing. When I pull up my house on Google Earth, it shows an empty lot where my house has been for at least three years. Yeah, these Indians may find a mine, but by the time they get there, all the miners would have left and the forest would have retaken the land.

I mean, it's not like you can go outside, wave at the sky and find yourself on GoogleEarth!

Could the title be more ambiguous?

[meringuoid]

I mean, I got the mental image of a bunch of guys in Bombay using Google Earth to protect an online bookstore...

Re:Could the title be more ambiguous?

[natrius]

After 500 years, we still have to deal with namespace collisions caused by Columbus covering his ass.

Aw crap, we're lost. What do I tell the crew...
"Congratulations, everyone! We've made it to India!"

you do know...

[Oo.et.oO]

that indians are FROM INDIA, right?

is this supposed to be like a queer calling a queer a queer?

!offtopic

[winomonkey]

Hey mods...the above post is not off topic, it is merely pointing out that articles, blurbs, and summaries should make the distinction that Indians (ala India) are not the same as Native Americans. Hundreds of years after the initial confusion and we are still getting this stuff wrong. Indians are not native to the Amazon.

Perhaps you meant some of these indigeneous peoples from Brazil:
* Ache
* Aconã
* Aimoré (Botocudo)
* Anacé
* Apinajé
* Aranã
* Asheninka
* Atikum-Umã
* Awá
* Baniwa
* Caingang (Kaingang)
* Caripuna
* Caxixó
* Fulni-o
* Guajajara
* Guaraní
* Jeripankó
* Juká
* Kaimbé
* Kalabaça-Jandaíra
* Kalankó
* Kamayurá (Kamaiurá)
* Kambiwá
* Kanindé
* Kantaruré
* Kapinawá
* Karajá
* Karapotó
* Kariri-Xokó
* Karuazu
* Kiriri
* Katuquina (Catökinn)
* Kaxinawa
* Kayapo
* Korubo
* Koiupanká
* Krahó
* Krenak
* Macuxi
* Matipu
* Maxakali
* Munduruku
* Ofayé
* Panará
* Pankaiuká
* Pankará
* Pankararé
* Pankararu
* Pankaru
* Pataxó
* Pataxó-Hã-Hã-Hãe
* Payaku
* Pipipã de Kambixuru
* Pirahã
* Pitaguary
* Potiguara
* Quilombolo
* Tapirape
* Tapeba
* Tapuia
* Tamoio
* Terena
* Ticuna
* Tremembé
* Truká
* Tsohom Djapa
* Tumbalalá
* Tupinambá
* Tupiniquim (Tupinikim)
* Waiapi
* Waorani
* Wassu-Cocal
* Xacriaba
* Xavante
* Xerente
* Xokó
* Xucuru
* Yanomami
* Yawalapiti
* Yawanawa

Re:Too bad they can only stop what happened years

[The_Wilschon]

They have satellites up there which are dedicated to monitoring the amazon, as well as radar stations on the ground. So they're using google earth for mapping, not for imaging, I would infer. I know that they have active satellites in orbit currently because my father worked on the project that put them there. I'm rather puzzled though by this story which does not mention either the company my father works for nor the name of the project.

Re:Too bad they can only stop what happened years

[DerekLyons]

Those maps are out of date, it'll be useless to find new operations.

They have satellites up there which are dedicated to monitoring the amazon, as well as radar stations on the ground. So they're using google earth for mapping, not for imaging, I would infer.

TFA directly states that they are obtaining evidence from Google Earth of the existence of the mines and other incursions - I.E. for imaging, not mapping.
 

I know that they have active satellites in orbit currently because my father worked on the project that put them there. I'm rather puzzled though by this story which does not mention either the company my father works for nor the name of the project.

Your reference is a puff piece from eight years ago, it's entirely possible that the birds/system is not present, or entirely operational. Or it may not produce imagery of high enough quality, (land use images can be fairly coarse and still usefull). The lack of mention of them in TFA may indicate (if it is operational) that they are not available to the activists.
 
OTOH - TFA is a fuzzy headed puff piece, so their ignorance of sources of information other than populist ones can easily be explained by their naivete.

Re:Who in the feck writes this titles?

[falconwolf]

Indians live in that subcontinent over near the Asia. Various Native and Indengious people live in South America.

Aboriginal, Indigenous, or Native people also live in India, such as the Hmar, Arunachal Pradesh, Boro, and many others.

Falcon

non-aboriginal nation in Americas before 1776

[falconwolf]

Can you name a non-aboriginal nation that was founded in North or South America before the United States in 1776? Didn't think so.

Yes I can, Vineland which is now called Nova Scotia.

Falcon