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UK Schools Bans WiFi Due To Health Concerns
Mantrid42 writes "Schools in the UK are getting rid of their WiFi network, citing health concerns from parents and teachers. The wireless emanations, parents fear, may be the root cause of a host of problems from simple fatigue to the possibility of cancer. A few scientists think younger humans may be more vulnerable to the transmissions, because of thinner skulls. From the article: "Vivienne Baron, who is bringing up Sebastian, her ten-year-old grandson, said: 'I did not want Sebastian exposed to a wireless computer network at school. No real evidence has been produced to prove that this new technology is safe in the long term. Until it is, I think we should take a precautionary approach and use cabled systems.'"
What doesn't cause cancer?
" No real evidence has been produced to prove that this new technology is safe in the long term."
I'm sorry, but we're not talking about kryptonite or magical dark matter here.. these are devices operating with known technology in a known spectrum-- and let me add, not the only devices in this spectrum. WiFi isn't the only technology to operate at 2.4ghz (and I think some of the standards.. 802.11a? operate at 5.8ghz) -- are these parents seking to ban microwaves and cordless telephones? Even cellphones (and I'm sure many of them at least use cellular phones around their kids, iand some no doubt actually provide their kids with mobile phones) operate on similar 900mhz / 1800mhz / etc frequencies.
Someone with more of a science background, please reply (and correct me if necessary), but whether or not wireless internet has been studied over the "long term" have not several other devices that operate in the same (or very close) sprectrums? How is this anything but FUD?
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
Glad to see we don't have a monopoly on idiocy here in the States...
(%i1) factor(777353);
(%o1) 777353
Stands a greater risk of injury from tripping over the cables of a wired network than from the RF emitted from a wireless network. Our poor, ignorant UK friends...
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
$5 bucks says she's talking on her cell phone with her little Sebastian within a few feet of her.
I haven't been able to pee since I installed my new linksys. This solves it.
Having installed wireless networks in *dozens* of schools, this is pretty much the reaction I experience with a few hours exposure to schools.
Sounds like the grandmother needs the schooling at least as much as the kids. I suggest starting with a list of RF-producing devices, then move on to the inverse square law...
Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
Too bad the cables are covered in asbestos!!! Muhahahhaa.
I don't get it, are we not bombarded with radio waves. AM/FM Radio, cell phones, cordless phones. Natural occurring radio waves? I though it was just something in the environment we learned to harness.
No matter how many studies one has that fail to detect a hazard, there is always a chance that the hazard was too subtle to be statistically detectable, or was of a type of hazard that wasn't investigated (e.g., hearing loss or arthritis).
It's the old saying - you can't prove a negative. Actually, you can't prove anything in science. You can only present evidence.
Wireless is minimal compared to everything else. We live in an electromagnetic world, with electromagnetic waves everywhere.
802.11-b/g operate on the same frequency as microwaves (i.e. in the microwave spectrum); a microwave is shielded by physical means (no, no magical force fields when you power it up), and if you toss a laptop inside (don't turn the microwave on!) you can still connect to it over wifi with good signal. The shielding lets more through than wifi.
We have TV stations and radio stations broadcasting electromagnetic signals everywhere. There's electromagnetic waves from these and the earth's magnetic field all through the air. There's even electromagnetic radiation from space penetrating the atmosphere, although in very very tiny quantities; without the atmosphere, direct exposure to the level of electromagnetism out there would cook you, kind of like direct exposure to the 1200 watt microwave in the kitchen...
Many cordless phones operate on the 2.4GHz range (some in the 5.0GHz range to avoid colliding with 802.11-a/b/g Wifi) and are everywhere. Cell phones operate in that range too. The police band, tower-to-air radio, and Ham radio wade around high frequency EM as well. Aside from simple cordless phones, these are all a lot stronger than a Wifi AP.
Any device with electricity running through it produces an electromagnetic field in some abstract frequency. You get 60Hz EMI coming out of power lines and power cables; once it hits a transformer you might get more, such as the 15MHz that comes out of a flyback transformer in a TV. You won't get the gigahertz range or anything, but you'll get some sort of electromagnetic field just the same.
You can't escape it. You can hide under a rock 500 meters in the ground but you'll still have enough of the earth's magnetic field to use a compass. What kind of idiot thinks Wifi is magically special?
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Fortunately, us stoopid Brits do understand enough statistics to know that drawing conclusions about the whole population from a sample of one is unlikely to give reliable results. :-)
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
What fud!
This is not a concern of pretty much all UK schools, their pupils or their parents.
The reason behind the story is simply that newspapers sell papers based on how sensational the issues are. If they could convince people to believe parents won't sending their children to school because of fears of radioactive textbooks, they would print that also.
hospitals have wireless networks
people die in hospitals, these wireless network tubes must be dangerous things! won't anyone think of the children?
any argument taken seriously that prevents young minds from communication is very troubling
the real issue here is NOT health - it is being driven by the idea that young minds have access to a world of ideas not under control from those in power. the Internet has a global set of ideas - empowering, liberating, libralizing, and educating ideasl this is quite contrary to the mentality in most lower schools which are follow the rules, learn/do what you're told, and tow the line.
the idea that kids the age of 8 or 9 or 10 (ish) are educated and empowered is deathly frightening to small minded parents, who are so childish themselves they can't deal with strong people. So instead, they cite some completely absurd health scare to keep kids from easy, broad access to online content.
it is sadly ironic that by applying an argument to protect their health, they will actually harm these children by limiting their access to the Internet
Why in hell can't they just wear tinfoil hats like the rest of us?
You're using her as bait, Master!
The 2.4ghz segment of the microwave spectrum used for wireless devices is essentially harmless. E = hc/w where w = wavelength (normally he symbol lambda is used). The wavelength in this section of the spectrum is very large, comparatively speaking. You know those little holes in the screen of the microwave? Simply put, even those are too small for a microwave to fit through. And the amplitude of wireless lan devices is rather small--ban cellular phones long before you ban a wifi network. The most that particular set of frequencies can do is warm the human body up, and to do that it would need to be far more intense of a signal to have any noticeable effect. Those florescent bulbs used for lighting are more harmful--that white coating on the inside is all that's keeping ultraviolet light, which is harmful, inside the bulb.
There's no evidence that it isn't harmful, I'll give you that. But find evidence that the easter bunny doesn't exist while you're at it. Just because some mammals grow so large, or just because some electromagnetic waves have the potential of being harmful, doesn't mean they all do.
From the BBC:
"However with church attendance on the decline and only 7% of Christians in the UK attending church, the figure seems remarkably high."
So I'm going to say that based on your stat and this one, a significant (majority?) of people in the UK are culturally christian, but not epistemologically christian...
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Or, all that fatigue, cancer, hyperactivity, confusion, stupidity, fat, and behavioral problems could be caused by being poisoned by sugar water. Sugar is one hell of a toxic substance to the human body... empty calories that rob the body of nutrient to process it, do not provide a continuous supply of energy for the body, are addictive, and when drunk in excess cause hyperactivity, then depression, hypoglycemia, getting fat, and eventually, diabetes. Add hefty amounts of caffeine into the mix (which is actually a poison given off by the coca plant) and you've bot one toxic mix.
After 20 years of drinking and being addicted to this crap, I've found out the hard way. Throughout those 20 years its tore up my life, made me think I was insane, chronically fatigued, confused, unable to concentrate, and eventually gotten down right sick.
Its not the wifi, its the sugar water.
Numerous studies on the toxicity of sugar to the body can be found on the net. No, refined sugar is not the same as blood glucose, and no, you body does not need refined sugar to function. Healthy vegtables, meat, water, and fiber. Zero sugar. Zero caffeine.
My favorite one is from many years ago. A ham radio operator moved into a new neighborhood and put up a tower and antenna in his back yard. The complaints came pouring in regarding to TV reception interferance problems, strange voices on the phone lines, voices on the intercom, etc. He replied to all complaints that he was sure his transmitter was not causing any of the problems and invited anyone to send a certified tech out to check for any out of band or excessive power transmission that could cause the problem.
Nobody sent a technician to check his station. This did not settle the complaints and the FCC was called out due to the number of complaints. The FCC sent him a letter in response to the complaints and they required of him to have his transmitter certified by the manufacture.
He wrote back and stated the transmitter was lost in shipping and he was waiting for the insurance to settle so he could purchase a replacement.
Meanwhile he documented and filed all the complaints as existing conditions to the new location prior to beginning operation.
The truth shall set you free!
Yeah I noticed that too. Whenever there's some dick tailgating behind me chances are good that they'll have some Born Again insignia or We Support Our Troops magnets.
With the Born Agains, I guess they are just too focused on their eternal reward in heaven to give a fuck about some plain day-to-day courtesy on Earth.
Happy people make bad consumers.
That's okay, I'm not using Aethernet, I'm using Tolkien Ring.
(Yah, I know, but is that really any worse than some of ther other jokes in this thread?)
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
That will never work. It depends on people being able to think for themselves. To paraphrase Dan Akroyd as Ray Zalinsky in the movie Tommy Boy: What the average person doesn't know is what makes them an average person. Look at how many people buy lottery tickets every day.
(Yes, I know the article is about a school in the UK while the original quote was about the American public. Hence "paraphrase". Same principle still applies.)
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.