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The Incredible Shrinking Cosmonaut Corps
jonerik writes "Space.com (via MSNBC) has this article about the declining prestige — and size — of Russia's cosmonaut corps in these post-Soviet years of wild 'n' woolly Russian capitalism. Where at one time the mighty Soviet space program could count on thousands of applicants offering their services as cosmonauts, today the vast majority of young Russian civilians prefer more lucrative private sector careers, though recruitment among Russian Air Force pilots is still good since the pay is higher in the cosmonaut corps. Russia currently has a total of 37 active cosmonauts in three units, and though these numbers are considered sufficient, there would be fewer available reserves if the ISS crew expands to six, as had been originally intended. 'In the 1960s one would dream of becoming a cosmonaut, now the young men are dreaming of becoming bankers,' says Sergei Shamsutdinov, an editor at the Novosti Kosmonavtiki magazine. 'The romantic aspect of the manned space exploration is no longer there; it has been replaced by gray daily routine.'"
Well, not personally, but given that they're just talking about tooling around in space, what's the attraction of that? Now, if they were to actually try and get a man on Mars, you'd have no shortage of applicants.
I am similarly a sellout. As a child, I wanted to be a physicist -- like Newton. Then I realized that my fate (PhD) would be in the hands of a person I dont necessarily trust for 8 years. After that, i would not be able to afford decent housing or much of anything (unless I made it to the top 5% of my field.) Keep im mind its not just my own fate, but also of my wife and kids. Becoming a banker, programmer, consultant, whatever, was a decision to *not* save the world, but rather be able to find a job quickly whenever I needed and not have to worry about housing, childrens' wellbeing, etc. Housing is the key issue. I think if it wasnt for the exorbitant cost of housing, many more careers would be open to people who truly want them. With housing in the mix though, you spend every penny of your earnings trying to pay off your house and have little time to really contribute to society.
I'd be less than apt to sign up, too. If NASA has problems with shuttles exploding on launch, who's to say Russia will fare better with its program? Sorry, as nice as the "final frontier" might be, I'm not keen on the idea of being vaporized just trying to get there.
It could be that the only purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others.
The romantic aspect of the manned space exploration is no longer there; it has been replaced by gray daily routine.What is that supposed to mean? It is important that we complete the grey daily routine. They like to eat too you know. And their cages can get really dirty. You would think that with thousands of years of advancement in science they would know how to clean up after themselves!
Even if I was offered to become a first man to set foot on Mars, I would refuse. I don't understand the attraction. It is the same as when the USA decades ago sent some men to the Moon just for propaganda purposes. Mars is just a barren place and nothing interesting to see their. All the science can be done 10 times better and cheaper by remote technology. So, although for humans reaching the space was great achievement, it is time to also acknowledge that it is not a place for humans yet.
I'm pretty sure that openSUSE people would gladly pay a one way trip for him.3 765.html
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/msg0
This
OK, so people are willing to pay $20 Million to participate in one flight, and the Russians are having problems getting people to participate for free/for small pay? The problem is probably not lack of interest. There's something else going on here.... They could be being too selective, they could not really be accepting anyone into the program, maybe the problem is they only take Russian's and ex-Soviet's. Then again, maybe a lot of people can't deal with leaving their fate for 10 years left up to a bureaucracy and then still stand an unlikely chance of accomplishing anything.
Here's to losing my Karma Bonus again....
In the 1960s one would dream of becoming a cosmonaut, now the young men are dreaming of becoming bankers,' says Sergei Shamsutdinov, an editor at the Novosti Kosmonavtiki magazine.
And here in America, we have bankers that dream of going up with Russian Cosmonauts.
Push Button, Receive Bacon
I would say that back then there were young kids dreaming about being bankeers as well. There were kids dreaming about being bus drivers, pirats, cosmonauts, scient men, and everything. Nothing has changed now in this case. The only thing that changed is that now kid have the *remote* oportunity of becoming a bankeer, when then they had more posibilities to become a party member or something. So, yes something has changed. Not the dreams, though.
It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!!
Let's remember too that Russia still possesses and is still capable of developing some of the most deadly weapon systems known to man. Just look at what the US says when arms are sold to the so called "rogue states."
Your post indicates that high housing costs are preventing people from pursuing careers they really want. Let's say we all put you in charge of lowering the cost of housing. What would you do?
There is no reason to lament the fact that most Russians prefer to be bankers instead of cosmonauts. Russia is simply not at the right economic stage to splurge on space programs. During the Cold War, the Russians spent heavily on space projects, but that situation is due to government intervention (in the economy) against the will of the people. That intervention wrecked the economy.
When Russia becomes rich like the rest of the West, then the Russians will return to space. Given the the incredible accomplishments of Russian mathematicians, I expect that a Russian genius will decipher and advance the work of Burkhard Heim. In so doing, he shall develop the first working prototype of a warp drive. (The Americans have already developed phasers, which can be deployed on a jet fighter. Are the Japanese working on shields?)
However, that is just an illusion for now. Right now, we must concentrate on steering Russia towards developing a true democracy and a real economy not based solely on commodities. The current pathetic state of Russia is partially due to the shenanigans of the Harvard elite.
I agree, just wandering out in space ain't that fun.... haven't tried tit myself, but would be good to be aiming somewhere than just being in a gravity free zone.
http://www.webexperts.co.nz
In Soviet Russia cosmonaut becomes you!
This is a bit of an answer to the question "Why go to the Moon, Mars, or an Asteroid?". I bet more candidates would get excited about something like that. Either they need to inspire these guys, or offer them more pay to twirl around in LEO tightening bolts and tending experiments. It might be more economical in the short run simply to offer more pay. In the long run, a partnership with other spacefaring nations to further exploration is probably the best thing for the long-term health of the program.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Did anybody else read that as "The Incredible Shrinking Cosmonaut Corpse?" In soviet russia...
To become an astronaut, cosmonaut, taikonaut etc., you have to build up a straight-as-an-arrow civilian and/or military career for 10+ years, always being in the right place at the right time. You know that around every corner, an incident can happen (injury, even a personal mishap) that could disqualify you. And even if you succeed at all that, then you're just one member of a large pool of astronaut wannabees, and the chance of actually making a flight are slim. Even if you make it into space, it's never more than a handful of missions that are about one week each.
Yes, I've dreamt of being an astronaut when I was a child. But then I realized how slim my chances were, and I didn't want to spend a whole life hoping for a small chance of a one or two week reward, however "magical" they might be. And think of all the astronauts that have trained all their life without ever making a single flight.
Well, Russia is the worlds largest nation and has the largest natural resources of any nation. With less than 120 million people they are well on their way to wealth. Living next door to Russia it is quite obvious they are both rich and poor - and what nation does not have both groups of people? It is all about the distribution of course - just like in the US.
Russia ended 2005 with its seventh straight year of growth. Strong oil export earnings have allowed Russia to increase its foreign reserves from only $12 billion to some $180 billion at yearend 2005. During this time, poverty has declined steadily and the middle class has continued to expand. Nevertheless, serious problems persist. Taken from the CIA World Fact Book
An interesting comparison might be to look at the GDP of the US, Russia and the two largest economies in Europe:
US $12.31 trillion
Germany $2.48 trillion
France $1.794 trillion
Russia $1.584 trillion
Your wages are roughly a measure of how valuable the rest of us find your work, with some averages and guesses of future output thrown in. Housing costs big money because PEOPLE build them (for wages... gasp!), and the best land gets sold by its property owner to the highest bidder (the nerve!!). If housing were priced below market value (i.e. if I were stealing land from landowners and labor from laborers), then, yeah, I'd be freed from necessary drudgery to pursue my dream job... in my case, undercover margarita tester.
Since in Soviet Russia, astronauts become people.
Wealth = nest egg for retirement. This plan creates a disincentive to save, and taxes my ability to retire. Furthermore, it taxes the wealth I conscientiously saved out of my previous AFTER-TAX dollars.
The ones in space now are for show the real ones are working on the Stargate Program
No, the richest buyers exceed the $1 million mortgage cap on interest deduction, and are most likely to have to pay the Alternative Minimum Tax anyway.
You make an interesting point about how subsidies (to make housing affordable) can make housing expensive (by pushing up demand). Not sure what to make of it... if that was your point.
Can't find enough Russian nationals to stock your space program? I'll go. Send me a Berlitz Russian language course, and we can get started right away. Mars, ISS, the moon -- whatever. Better to be a poor astro ... oops ... cosmonaut than a rich investment banker, I'm sure.
I'll even bring friends. Plenty of bodies to run your program into the next decade.
Star City, here we come.
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
why NOT advertise on geek sites like /.? there are enough of us here who pretty much wanted to go into space as soon as they heard it was a job opportunity. even i am willing to drag my sorry ass off the couch and start training if there was even a 0.001 chance that i would get chosen. and i really don't care where i go, ISS, moon, mars.. one way or return ticket. cover my food and lodging (and broadband) and you don't even need to pay me.
learn from yesterday, plan for tomorrow, party tonight
or one out of three ain't bad
Not just in Soviet (or Post Soviet) Russia, but in the US too. Space is boring, because its been monotony. We were all supposed to be in space by now. Instead, half a dozen (OK, several hundred) brainiac 9000 types have been in space doing really boring stuff. Few others, except the super-rich have been able to go. Mother keeps telling us that its cold out there, do up your coat, and pin the mittens to your space suit. Space had everyones attention in the 1950's and 1960's, because progress was constant, steady, and advancing rapidly. Once the airplanes got to about 1500 miles per hour, the need for more speed fell away. The space shuttle is a hatchback, not a sports model. No one has been on the moon since December 11, 1972. We are approaching 34 years on that one. Our dreams raced ahead of the technology. Innovation has slowed to a crawl. Innovation has occurred in other areas though. First computers, then bio-engineering, then nanotechnology (in roughly that order). The technology isn't ready yet. Progress will be slow while people slug out details which will lead to more innovation. A lot of dead ends will be tried before new great stuff comes along. Cosmonauts, Astronauts, Taikonauts. They will all be a rare breed till technology allows dozens (or hundreds) of people to go into space at a time. Until then, its all at the edge of a long forgotten dream, dremped by 5 year olds living in the late 1960's and early 1970's.
I've just come back from Korolev (aka Space City) as a paying guest of Energia Corporation. I was there with some 17-18 year olds for the "Space Olympics", an annual international event where the Russians are trying very hard to enthuse the next generation about Space Exploration in general. At the same time, they are making shed-loads of money out of their "guests": very New Russia.
Having met five cosmonauts (4 active; 1 retired) on this trip, it's my impression that they are all still struggling to some extent to come to terms with life in modern Russia. Mostly in their late 40's or early 50's, they seemed tired and somewhat cynical, or even bored with the endless PR. Many of the technical support people have baled out, either to administrative jobs within the same sector or elsewhere completely. There was a definite "Soviet" feel to the trip, as our Russian hosts have not made a complete psychological transition from the old ways when they were truly elite. For example, we were not permitted to visit any working churches (e.g. St Basil's in Red Square) and they kept driving us round and round Moscow to ensure that we ran out of time rather than allow this visit. Lenin's mausoleum was, naturally, "highly recommended" (i.e. mandatory).
Even so, most of those in Space City proper (which strictly is a separate part of the much bigger city of Korolev) are still an elite by Russian standards. They have bigger apartments - twice the average floorspace - and much better shops. The best schools (e.g. Lyceum No. 11) are eye-opening for someone from the UK educational system. Although not amazingly lavish in terms of resources (although still good), the attainment of their top students is awesome. Their performance in science, mathematics, foreign languages and performing arts was extremely impressive.
On the other hand, traffic is utterly chaotic, the food was mostly appalling and their organisation (general, rather than specialist) was quite poor. Medical care was surprisingly cursory (I fell ill during the visit) and they certainly don't trust the banking system - I had to go to the airport exchange booths in the middle of the night to cash travellers' cheques to pay them in CASH for our visit. (Very unsettling for someone from the West!)
There are certainly enough technically-minded young Russians (and Kazakhstanis) around to keep the system supplied with cosmonauts - at least within a few years' time. They currently fund specialist scholarships to Moscow State University and have a range of other incentives. Crucially, they are all still very proud of their long legacy of cosmonautics (edited for deaths and maimings, inevitably) and it was a real thrill even for me to be able to physically grab hold of Yuri Gagarin's re-entry capsule, which is displayed with loads of other hardware in Energia's museum.
Then again, when the Russo-American-European ISS has become the world's highest advertising platform with this recent golf-drive stunt, who can really be sure what the future holds for science and scientists? When I trained 30 years ago, I never really expected to end up teaching young adults, even when moving towards the sunset of my working life.