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No Business Case for HDTV?

Lev13than writes "The head of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation argues that there is no business model for HDTV. Speaking at a regulatory hearing being held by the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC), CBC president Robert Rabinovitch noted that 'There's no evidence either in Canada or the United States that we have found for advertisers willing to pay a premium for a program that's in HD.' In order to cope with infrastructure and programming costs that are roughly 25 per cent higher, Rabinovitch proposes that the CBC start charging cable and satellite companies to carry their signal, and to limit over-the-air transmission. HDTV — good for Best Buy, bad for broadcasters?"

26 of 525 comments (clear)

  1. Hooray for sanity by TodMinuit · · Score: 4, Funny

    Canadialand is the Nintendo of countries: Graphics simply do not matter.

    --
    I wonder if I use bold in my signature, people will notice my posts.
    1. Re:Hooray for sanity by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Thank God for that. If it was the Sony of countries, the polar bears would be exploding in HD color.

  2. no common sense case by yagu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Good gosh, HDTV would fly by itself if the industry practiced a little common sense about the rollout. I remember in 1998 a sales guy trying to talk me into buying a sexy looking HDTV on demo on the floor. Yeah, I was drooling.

    This unit came sans tuner, and the universe as we know it was still pretty much standard definition tv, i.e., if you could find any HD content, it was for eye candy only, nobody was broadcasting HD anywhere on anything remotely regular.

    I told him I'd wait for the prices to come down, and the for some content to show up -- he shook his finger at me, "These prices [$10,000 for the unit I was looking at] won't come down and might go up! And, there's more and more new HD content available every day"

    Prices went way down (though still way too high) and content eventually showed up. The problem? Way too many ways to set up for HD with way too many ways to find out your setup isn't correct after spending big bucks.

    The minefield that is setting up for HD is too confusing, too expensive, and yeah, if I were an advertiser I'd find it a tough sell to pay any extra for an uncertain market.

    It's too bad, I eventually settled on a Samsung 50" DLP a 2 years ago, absolutely LOVE it, but no thanks to any help I got from anyone anywhere! Freak, even the Comcast HD cable box is still a piece of garbage that regularly freezes, never behaves, and offers a very limited range of HD (not entirely their fault, come on networks!).

    Toss in the confusing choices and still uncertain future of HD on DVD, sheesh, it's a wonder the market is as penetrated as it is.

    Hey, and toss in the $50 HDMI cable lots of people have to buy, they didn't even know about it until "after". Yeah, and what about the almost non-existent HD On Demand (another unfulfilled promise... aside from incredibly poor selection, Comcast's On Demand movies have only a few HD, and all of them (HD and standard) are so compressed, it hurts to watch on a good TV). Oh, and don't forget, or don't forget to plan for, DRM. Don't assume what's true today will still be true by the time you set up your system, but assume if it's not the same it's going to be more restrictive.

    Shit, the more I prattle, the less I like about HD. I'm in as deep as I want for what the market has offered so far, but am not chomping at the byte for any more investment until the industry sorts itself out.

    1. Re:no common sense case by DA-MAN · · Score: 5, Informative

      Hey, and toss in the $50 HDMI cable lots of people have to buy

      Digital either works or it doesn't. A five dollar hdmi cable will work as good as the fifty dollar hdmi cable. Monster may help on analog audio, but doesn't do jack for digital.

      This is a myth.

      --
      Can I get an eye poke?
      Dog House Forum
    2. Re:no common sense case by jmv · · Score: 5, Funny

      I see you're not a real connoisseur. My 500$ digital video cable makes the red, green and blue so much richer. It also makes the programs I'm watching subtly more entertaining. You see, that's because the bits are happier when traveling an expensive cable.

    3. Re:no common sense case by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Informative
      "I have a PC integrated into the theater, and I may just crumble and get an HD card for it; but I'd much much MUCH rather have a solid set-top box that doesn't have to rely on the PC being there. For similar reasons, I bought a DVD player for the set-up so I don't have to wait for the PC to power up etc."

      Think of it another way....do the PC, and use it to tune your HD, to play your DVD's and CD's and everything. You could get rid of settop box and cd/dvd player...hell. put MythTv on it, and get rid of the TIVO too. Get a wireless card in it..and download all you want from the net onto it...

      Wait for it to power on?? Why would you turn it off? I don't turn off any of my computers around the house.....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:no common sense case by HTTP+Error+403+403.9 · · Score: 5, Informative
      I just did a quick search on Amazon.com (so I by no means have a complete list with prices), shows the first HDMI cable (not a male-to-male or converter) going for around $40. This is not a monster cable, just a no-name brand. The monster cable was $100+.

      My point? HDMI cables cost A LOT, even at the low end. And most stores that I've checked (again, not a complete list) don't care more than one or two brands, usually the $75 to $100 versions.

      Monoprice.com - 15 foot HDMI cable M/M $8.07 - cheap price but quality cables.
      --
      I'm not a Troll, it's reverse psychology.
    5. Re:no common sense case by gantzm · · Score: 5, Funny

      > Which is a shame, they used to be quite good yet affordable.

      History of Radio Shack:

      Early Years:

      Q: Do you have any 2N222s?
      A: Fourth panel, third from the top, second from the left.

      Now :
      Q: Do you have any 2N222s?
      A: Is that the new Razor?

      Like all trips, it was good while it lasted.

      --


      Excessive forking causes un-wanted children.
    6. Re:no common sense case by timeOday · · Score: 4, Insightful
      'There's no evidence either in Canada or the United States that we have found for advertisers willing to pay a premium for a program that's in HD.'...

      My biggest problem with HDTV is that it just means my cable bill is bigger at the end of every month.

      I say we will have HDTV, and we will not pay extra for it, any more than we pay a premium for color or stereo. The HD premium will become small enough that competion alone will push it forward. I already have my Cable company calling trying to switch me over to digital but I won't, not if it costs extra. Eventually they'll get sick of paying to maintain the analog system and move me over with little or no premium. That's if I even want cable TV by then. Years ago I never thought I'd escape the phone company, but I switched to VOIP about two years ago and have no intentions of going back.
    7. Re:no common sense case by CaptKeen · · Score: 5, Funny
      > Which is a shame, they used to be quite good yet affordable.

      History of Radio Shack:

      Early Years:

      Q: Do you have any 2N222s?
      A: Fourth panel, third from the top, second from the left.

      Now :
      Q: Do you have any 2N222s?
      A: Is that the new Razor?

      Like all trips, it was good while it lasted.


      As you say, it used to be 'You've got questions? We've got answers!'. Now its 'You've got questions? We've got blank stares! And cellphones!'
      --
      --
    8. Re:no common sense case by coaxial · · Score: 4, Funny

      Monster may help on analog audio, but doesn't do jack for digital.

      You're wrong. See, back in the analog world we had to contend with "dirty power." Now in the digital world, we have "dirty bytes." The two ideas are related since they both deal with electricity, but subtley different. See the signal can become corrupted when passing through the box, and you know how dirty it is in there. If you don't know, just crack it open and take a look. Anyway the bytes are made up of bits. Eight bits to be precise. Now as the signal passes through the box it picks up some bits of dirt along with the other bits. And when you put the bits together you get a dirty byte that's EIGHT TIMES DIRTIER. Now when these bytes come out of the box and need to be read. But they need cleaned up before they can be read. Just like how you have to blow the dust off an old book to read it. So you see, the $50 hdmi cable cleans the bytes before their processed. If they weren't cleaned before they get processed by the tv, the tv would have to do that causing it to act slower, just like how it's quicker to read a clean book than a dirty book. Still with me? Okay. I know what you're thinking. The dirt from the bytes has to go somewhere, and you know where that is right? That's right. INSIDE THE TV! That what makes digital equipment so dirty on the inside. And since it's so dirty inside the tv, the bytes inside just keep getting dirtier and dirtier. It would be like trying to dust your house in the middle of a sandstorm. Pretty silly huh? So you see, you're not just cleaning the bytes as the come in, but you're really doing preventive maintence to your tv at the same time. Now you could probabably get by with just buying one $50 hdmi, but if you REALLY want to be safe, you should probably change your HDMI every three months, or whenever you change you're programming package. Whichever comes first.

      I know what I'm talking about. I have $100 24k gold plated optical cable, and I can definately see and hear the difference.

  3. It's just the beginning... by grogdamighty · · Score: 4, Insightful
    At this point HDTV's development, it's still a costly technology. It's not an early adopter device any more, but it hasn't even come close to reaching critical mass in the general populace yet. Despite this, it's very clear where the future of technology is, and any television station that waits till HDTV is the standard will pay for that in lost revenue in the future.

    Not going HD would be like cable companies saying "No need for us to build high speed infrastructure - everybody likes dial-up."

    --
    My other sig is funny.
  4. Re:And what about for the consumer? by Salvance · · Score: 4, Insightful
    That's exactly the problem ... nobody realizes that the consumer is who needs to make the decision

    Another problem is that the television networks are looking for traditional ways to exploit HDTV rather than innovate. It should come as no surprise that advertisers wouldn't pay more for regular commercials during HDTV broadcasts ... a viewer can change the channel in the middle of an HDTV commercial just as easily as any other.

    Broadcasters fail to willingly recognize two driving factors for HDTV:
    • The public now demands it, so they don't really have a choice (other than beg the government to force carriers to give the networks kickbacks)
    • The technology and vastly improved resolution will allow greater integration of programs with the internet. This would allow viewers to seamlessly interact with game shows via a remote, or to purchase clothing that their favorite soap stars might be wearing. Advertisers are willing to pay HUGE sums of money for interactive content and online purchasing.
    Where I do agree with the networks is their argument for dropping traditional HDTV radio wave broadcasts. It's ridiculous for the government to mandate that HDTV be receivable via antenna, let the networks use public demand as a gauge for where and how to best deliver hi-def.
    --
    Crack - Free with every butt and set of boobs
  5. Re:CBC better figure out how to lower their costs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    New cameras, modulators, multiplexers, etc...
    To give you an idea, you need 1 ATSC modulator per channel per transmittion tower. Each modulator is in the range of $10000. So we're talking hundreds of millions to convert.

  6. Re:Pornography is the Driver of Video by BSarp · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't know about you, but unless I'm watching exclusively girl-on-girl porn (and even then), there are some things I absolutely do NOT need to see in all their HD glory.

  7. No business case for TV by xQx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Having decomissioned my TV a number of years ago in favor of a computer running emule, and now having the free upgrade to BitTorrent that allows me to get my american TV shows add-free 2 weeks ahead of the Australian commercial-infected air-date rather than 1 week ahead.. TV Execs should be asking themselves Is there actually a business case for traditional TV?

    Now, as for HD-TV...

    I just witnessed a 277-run ashes victory against in full SD Digital TV, and the step up from shadowed fuzzy PAL broadcast was unbelievable.

    I can't wait to see us beat the Poms in 1080p full color :) I recon' I'd even pay to see that...

    I wonder how long it'll take the sports ground owners to start sueing broadcasters for loss of revinue because you get a better view of the game at home than you do with 10x binoculars from front-row seats?

    1. Re:No business case for TV by kfg · · Score: 5, Funny

      I can't wait to see us beat the Poms in 1080p full color :)

      I totally don't know what that means, but I want it.

      KFG

    2. Re:No business case for TV by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 4, Funny

      After about 4 posts to various videos, I dare say I seem to have stumbled across the next big thing in porn.

      Now if you'll excuse me I have to stock up on brain bleach.

      --
      "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
      --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
  8. I sell HD editing/post-production systems... by Nicky+G · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I make my living selling editing and post workstations (and associated systems, such as SANs). Many/most of the systems I sell are capable of handling HD content (mostly Apple Final Cut-based solutions), and many of my sales are into the broadcast space. So, I think I have a good sense of this stuff.

    HD is happening, and the adoption rate both for consumers, content creators, and broadcasters is accelerating. I have seen MUCH acceleration in 2006, and I think 2007 will be the year HD really takes command of the market. Let me put it this way -- perhaps the SUITS at broadcast organizations can't find a case for HD. But I will tell you this -- the engineers, editors, etc. are VERY MUCH ready for HD, and know it is happening, and there's no looking back. This isn't really up for debate, it's the fact of the matter.

    What I find a little strange about this guy's comments is that he's basically trying to justify keeping a 50-year-old broadcast standard, well into the 21st century. Let's think about that for a moment -- what would have happened if the computer industry had decided to stay with, say, the standards that were in place for computing in the 1950s, through today. Yeeeaaaah... As bizarre as this scenario sounds, this is the reality that the broadcast market has perpetuated for the last 50 years or so. I would think that consumers would be demanding a much quicker adoption of HD! Oh, so you need to buy a new TeeVee set? Me cry you a river. That's like saying I should be forced to use a building-sized supercomputer that runs on punchcards to handle basic arithmetic problems, just because you don't feel you should need to upgrade your computer. But it's even more ridiculous than that, because we tolerate "needing" to buy a new computer every 5 years or so, but sheesh, needing to upgrade your TV once per fifty years? IT'S A TRAVESTY!

    And on another note -- if those idiots can't command higher ad rates for HD advertisements, well, please fire them and hire me to do your HD advertising sales, because your current ad sales team SUCKS and is not worth what you're paying them. I am pretty certain I could do a better job myself. And I'm not just throwing that out there -- again, I make my living largely "selling" video content producers on HD.

    Finally, another interesting debate/issue concerns the video/post/broadcast world's move to tapeless workflows, where you are essentially recording video _files_ right onto flash RAM/hard drives/optical discs/SANs/etc. And video tapes go the way of the dodo. This is another HUGE shift in the broadcast market, which is only recently incorporating "IT technologies" into the systems that drive broadcast facilities. A lot of broadcasters are going to go for "two for the price of one" -- let's go tapeless, and let's make sure our upgrades are HD-capable at least.

    OK OK, one laaast point -- anyone who doesn't feel HD is a worthwhile upgrade SERIOUSLY needs to get their eyes checked. I recommend doing an A/B comparison between SD and HD, of the same content. HD is only truly profound when you _go back_ to SD, and you ask yourself, how the hell did I deal with this shit for so long? BRING ON MORE HD!!!

  9. Dirty Lies! by Ahnteis · · Score: 4, Funny

    I buy only the very best MONSTER Cat5 cable. Otherwise, my tubes go slow. =(

  10. Chicken and egg by Sparohok · · Score: 5, Insightful

    HDTV is a classic case of chicken and egg. Without an installed base, the industry has no incentive to produce and broadcast HD content. Without content, on the other hand, there will be no installed base. You can't blame the broadcasters for following their financial incentives, any more than you can blame consumers for rejecting high priced HDTV hardware on which they had nothing to watch.

    Fortunately, broadcasters, unlike consumers, are beholden to federal regulators and can be coerced. The FCC saw this chicken-and-egg problem coming and mandated terrestrial broadcast of HD content in the US. The Canadians should do the same. If you broadcast SD, you have to broadcast HD as well.

    Anyway, none of this matters anymore. HDTV is finally a done deal. Between the US tuner mandate, HD capable enabled game consoles, and the price trajectory of LCD flat panels, consumer adoption of HDTV is unstoppable. Advertisers and broadcasters will be dragged along soon enough.

  11. I dare the CBC to try it... by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A few stations and big networks tried that with Comcast. They instantly dropped the channels COUNTRY WIDE with a channel in place with text that said "**CHANNELNAME** is trying to charge you to watch their content and their commercials. call X-XXX-XXX-XXXX and let them know how you feel.

    it lasted one day. Several local channels tried it 5 years ago and bent over instantly when they had their plug pulled with a warning message on the channel. Discovery tried it to comcast 3 years ago as well and gave up 2 days later.

    CBC has no chance, if they start charging, they get dropped and then they wither away. Boo hoo that the studios have to upgrade their technology from 20 year old hardware and that the customers think they shouldn't pay more for it.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  12. Translation: CBC doesn't want to pay for it by optimus2861 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Take the source into consideration: CBC is the publically-funded national broadcast network of Canada, and its ratings are the pits across the board. Its one cash cow (and only real HDTV-showoff program), Hockey Night in Canada, is rumoured to be headed to private networks CTV and TSN next season. Conservatives are in power federally, and consider the CBC an adversary. Add it all up, and the CBC is staring at a cash crunch in the near future. They won't have the money to upgrade much of their programming to HDTV, so they blow smoke to the regulator that there's no business case for it.

  13. Re:GOVERNMENT is the Driver of HDTV by edwdig · · Score: 4, Informative

    The FCC didn't mandate HDTV. They mandated digital broadcasts. Digital does not imply HD.

    The reason? Analog broadcast TV takes up a huge chunk of very desirable radio spectrum space. Digital broadcasts can transmit more data in a smaller frequency range.

  14. Re:There are NO 5$ HDMI cables due to bad HDMI spe by EtherMonkey · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I recently bought a projector that took HDMI, that is when I startedlooking for HDMI cables. Turns out the cheapest HDMI cable 3ft is for 30$-40$. if u want anything longer, your are looking at 100$ plus. Researching more I discovered that reason for this is the specs, strangly yes, the specs. An article I read says the HDMI spec (an off shoot of DVI) was designed by computer engnineers and not video engineers. HDMI uses 4 twisted pair with no error correction (unlike TCP/IP) to send real time data and has a huge bandwidth requirements (HDTV). if they were video engineers they would have choosen coaxial. Anyhow, due to this, there are complications in the manufacturing of HDMI cables and achieving 100 ohm impedence is a big issue on these twisted pair cables.

    You mean this $7.69 HDMI cable cannot exist? And that this 16 foot HDMI cable for $29.99 is a figment of my imagination??? Eghads! How in the world was I ever able to get a usable signal from my home theater?

    Perhaps that's because you should have spent more time researching, or at least talking to a real expert, and not the pimply-faced sales droid at your local electronics store who will spin more lies in pursuit of that 75% premium cable profit margin than a politician chasing re-election.

    And, by the way, comparing HDMI to TCP/IP is like comparing Apples to Stainless Steel Cookware. And TCP/IP does not demand error correction (UDP is best effort). But TCP/IP does run over Ethernet or Token-Ring, either of which can run over 100-Ohm UTP. In fact, TCP/IP over GB-Ethernet on 4-pair 100-Ohm UTP has sufficient bandwidth to carry multiple real-time HDTV feeds up to 100 meters.

    Finally, there is nothing magical about making 100 Ohm UTP cable. It's been around for dozens of years and is the most common specification. It is certainly MUCH SUPERIOR FOR CARRYING DIGITAL SIGNALS compared to coaxial cable, which attenuates and degrades the digital waveforms over distance due to its inherent capacitance characteristics.

    I will concur that HDMI cables longer than 30 feet are unheard of, and that this is because of the specification. Every network standard has distance limitations. It's a trade-off between performance, convenience and cost. In defense of the standards team I can only say that most people tend to put their TV and tuner/dvd/etc on the same side of their house. Sort of like putting the oven in the kitchen with the fridge. But I'm kind of conservative that way.

    --
    --- A man with a briefcase can steal more money, than any man with a gun. [Don Henley]
  15. Great point by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 4, Interesting

    >It's not an early adopter device any more, but it hasn't even come close to reaching critical mass in the general populace yet.

    There's a marketing book that's worth reading, and it's about this exact situation. Products do not move smoothly from early adopters to early majority. There's a pit in between the two that many products fall into.

    The book, "Crossing the Chasm", explains that you have to make the transition to your new product as smooth and slick as teflon on teflon, or normal people will never generate good word of mouth. An example of a brilliant success at this is the Toyota Prius, which spends a significant amount of software simulating the artifacts of a 20th-century car, just to allow buyers to slide right into it without an adjustment.

    If the HD industry were poised for success you'd see plug-and-play installations that didn't require setup by a consultant, no obstructive DRM, and standardized cabling.