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RIAA Subpoenas Neighbor's Son, Calls His Employer
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "To those who might think that I might be exaggerating when I describe the RIAA's litigation campaign as a 'reign of terror', how's this one: in UMG v. Lindor, the RIAA not only subpoenaed the computer of Ms. Lindor's son, who lives 4 miles away, but had their lawyer telephone the son's employer. See page 2, footnote 1." From Ray's comments: "You have a multi-billion dollar cartel suing unemployed people, disabled people, housewives, single mothers, home healthcare aids, all kinds of people who have no resources whatsoever to withstand these litigations. And due to the adversary system of justice the RIAA will be successful in rewriting copyright law, if the world at large, and the technological community in particular, don't fight back and help these people fighting these fights."
"if the world at large, and the technological community in particular, don't fight back and help these people fighting these fights."
OK..
In all seriousness. WHAT SHOULD WE DO?
Please.. what can I do to help make this go away?
Don't Tread on Me
If you read the response from the record industry, Richard Altman is not an innocent bystander. According to the RIAA he has reinstalled Windows on his mom's computer several times and he was the one who delivered his mom's computer's hard drive to the RIAA. It is not like he has not been involved
The RIAA says that the hard drive they have is not the hard drive that was attached to the computer they are looking for, so they are looking at Richard Altman's computer equipment to see if he has the information they want.
Do they have probable cause to do this? I don't think so, but that is their argument.
-Matt
See? This is bullshit. I'm so scared of getting sued by the RIAA, that I don't download music anymore -- and I don't buy CDs either. No, I don't have a 20+G inventory of MP3s. Instead, I use many of the online commercial-free radio stations (Like the fabulous SomaFM.com).
Now I've been a little scared of being hit by the MPAA for downloading Doctor Who and James Burke shows. Oh, wait...
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
just don't buy any more cd's or download crap for a while, legal or not. If we all did it at once, they'd get the picture.
stuff |
1. Don't steal music.
There is no 2! Or 3! 1 Easy step!
Stop stealing music, and the RIAA will have no one to sue. It's that easy.
Unfortunately that's never going to happen in these grand United States, since we've started to devolve into a liberal entitlement society. US citizens believe they're entitled to everything, and nothing (like being unable to afford it) should stand in their way. We have people racking up massive debts to be able to get the latest trinkets with no thought on tomorrow.
People routinely ignore laws in the US. People routinely break the speed limit, ignore traffic signals, and otherwise put their lives and other people's lives in jeopardy solely to decrease their travel time by a few seconds.
If people would stop stealing music, the RIAA wouldn't have to work so hard to defend their music, and less innocent people would get caught in the crossfire.
If you want to stop RIAA lawsuits, you only need to take one easy step: stop stealing music. That's all there is to it.
The guy was illegally downloading music, dodging legitimate subpoenas, having people lie about his whereabouts to avoid legitimate subpoenas, having people *impersonate his dead father* to help him dodge legitimate subpoenas, and then after finally being served he tampers with evidence?
Say what you will about our thieving jackbooted fascist powertripping RIAA overlords, I'm having a hard time mustering up much sympathy for this guy. I disagree with much (if not all) of the **AA's tactics, but I'm just as rapidly running out of compassion for people who don't have the nerve to man up and just *do without* all their downloaded music and movies. At least the stoners have the nerve to stand right in front of the cops in a crowd of thousands and say "go ahead, arrest us all." I've yet to see a single person say "yes, I'm illegally filesharing and I'm willing to take the legal consequences as a symbol protest." Instead all I hear is "b-b-but it's not stealing, it's sharing! Everybody does it! Your business model is outdated and you're *mean*! Lower your prices! Britney sucks!"
You know, people probably wouldn't hate the RIAA so much if they changed their tactics from the "Trying to make a point/set legal precedent" to one of "trying to get the recording industries fair share"
Wander with me a moment if you will...
DRM - Change the DRM so that instead of trying to block copying of media it's more of a tattletale. Periodically it informs the RIAA what songs you have, when you copy them, whatever. I don't have this completely fleshed out but it would probably entail some sort of RIAA song registry.
Then the RIAA takes the same vague sources of data that they have now and instead of suing someone they send them a bill for a set reasonable fee for each song plus a 50% "You were being bad" fine. The consumer has several options upon receipt:
1. Pay the bill - Somehow a system of what music you have would have to be registered somewhere.
2. Refute the bill - Set up an arbitration process that doesn't actually involve a court. Some third party looks at the evidence and makes a binding decision. This process would have to have some mandatory fee to prevent everyone from clogging the system. Fee to be paid by the loser! So if you do have "stolen" music and you lose, you'd pay the cost+fine+arbitration fee. Ouch! But in the case of all these other people now being sued it'd be a lot cheaper. Ooo, and if they got their greasy hands on evidence that you tried to screw with the tattletale DRM then there would be an additional fine.
3. Ignore the bill - After a certain length of time the RIAA would have the option of pursuing it like any other debt. Black marks on your credit rating, "selling" the debt to third-party debt collection agencies etc. Or if it's some massive amount of songs/money then they could sue you in the appropriate civil court.
The end result of this? A new source of income for the recording industry. Potentially it could change the primary distribution model to one of mainly media downloads. (Why leave out the MPAA?)
For music the DRM could allow you to play the song a set number of times before you have to pay or delete it. I doubt the movie industry would go for that. Maybe a set number of minutes into the movie like hotel room pay-per-view used to be? "Warning! If you continue to view this movie you will be required to pay $XX.XX or you can stop now."
It's not so strange for one on the production side of the business to loathe the record companies. I know a couple of sound engineers who are also performers who wish that RIAA members would suddenly die. Many engineers befriend the artists they work with, or are also artists themselves, and get sick of the f***ing scams that ruin their friends careers -- especially the record companies' creative accounting practices which result in artists accumulating huge debts to the record company, even when a record charts and becomes a huge money maker.
I for one do not wish RIAA members to die; I wish for them to become mentally disabled from all the coke they snort. That would be a much more fitting punishment for those jackasses.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Why?
The message the RIAA wants to send you is that you WILL be hurt if you're involved in P2P piracy. I've said it before and I'll say it again: The RIAA isn't going to lay-off the stereotypical (but improbable) 80 year old grandma suffering cancer and a missing limb who's never touched a computer in their lives. They want you to know they're going to go after her. They want "you" to know, as a 20-something poor-little-rich-kid zit-faced P2P user who has been caught bang-to-rights redistributing their member's content and has barely any moral credibility whatsoever, that there's pretty much nothing you can do about it, they will go after you, after all, they're prepared to go after Mother Theresa, why the hell wouldn't they go after you?
Of course it's terrible. It's supposed to be. The truth, which NYCL and others kind of gloss over (and there's a reason for that), is that the practical powers of the RIAA are strictly limited, so the entire deal is to make themselves look like the biggest bastards possible. They look for people redistributing, they get the only identifying information available (the ISP logs), they sue, and they hope there's enough publicity that other users of P2P networks will be sufficiently scared enough to avoid fighting back. And sometimes the best way to generate that publicity is to sue grandma and a few unrelated parties and let "Good cop" (a few radio DJs and artists) cry out about it.
And if Good Cop's not available, there's always an ambulance-chasing lawyer around with a silky populistic patter who also has plenty of incentives to play up the "Monster, out-of-control, can do anything and will" image of the RIAA who'll faithfully repeat the message and scare the pirates just a little bit more.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
They want "you" to know, as a 20-something poor-little-rich-kid zit-faced P2P user who has been caught bang-to-rights redistributing their member's content and has barely any moral credibility whatsoever, that there's pretty much nothing you can do about it
And what exactly can they do about it? Get a judgement against that 20 year zit-faced brat with no assets and little income? What does he have to lose? The time it takes to find a bankruptcy lawyer and file?
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Well I doubt it would be that easy given what they are doing in other cases where the people have decided to fight instead of rolling over.
Still, even accounting for "time is money", I know that I could cost a hellva lot more money then they could cost me, were they ever to come after me. And I have nothing to lose. I have few assets and little disposable income. If they beat me, hello Chapter 7. And they'd still be out the money.
If I did have money to lose then I'd run up huge legal bills defending myself. My lawyers get priority in any bankruptcy proceeding and I'd rather give them all the money then RIAA.
If everybody had this attitude they wouldn't be able to get away with this.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
No, it's when they get the judgement against his *parents* - where they're ruined.
I've been involved and vindicated in court case (Same Name, Different Guy) that has a, shall we say, credit problem. I was taken to court by his creditors- even though I proved I wasn't the person they wanted.
I lost about 20 lbs in the time that it took to straighten out and felt like shit for the entire time.
So... what can they do? They can make you so miserable that you don't want to live.
At least 'justice' worked in my case... now if I could just win judgement against them for violations of the Fair Credit act....
Sure you can cost them more money than they can cost you....
but can you cost them a larger percentage of their revenue stream than the percentage that they can cost yours?
I dunno about you... but I am pretty sure the RIAA can take a million dollar hit much more gracefully and with less notice than I could personally take a thousand dollar hit.
Not that you are wrong, I agree... these are the sorts of tactics that could work. Just make them drop the case by dragging it out.
-Steve
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
I think there are at least 5 or 6 user ID's being used as RIAA trolls here today, maybe even more. That's the primary reason I started using the "Foe" function, so that I wouldn't waste my time trying to engage in dialogue with them.
One sure tip off is if the comment starts "No one hates the RIAA more than me". I think the RIAA trolls, here and in prior posts, are trying to do the following: (a) propagandize for their lawyers' positions, justifying their conduct, (b) take things off topic, (c) waste my time, (d) try to draw me out on undecided legal questions, and (e) discourage people from seeking legal counsel.
Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
It's about not filing a ridiculous lawsuit. It's about making it un-profitable for them to continue with their existing ridiculous lawsuit.
If you want to come after me then I'm going to stipulate nothing. I'm going to send you a merry paper chase with my interrogatories. I'm going to drag out any depositions that you may request to the point that you walk away with nothing useful. I'm going to file a counterclaim that you'll have to answer.
The point is that they are spending hundreds or thousands of dollars per hour on their lawyers and that if everybody did this then even RIAA would not be able to justify that sort of expense. Do you think the shareholders would approve of pouring tens of millions into a legal black hole when you are only expecting to cover a few thousand per case if you win and if the defendant has any money or assets that can be seized.
And if RIAA does get a judgement, then so what? You think civil judgements are the end of your life? Ask OJ how hard that civil judgement hurt him -- he didn't even need to file bankruptcy (always an option) to avoid paying it!
Make it massively unprofitable and sooner or later the shareholders of the RIAA companies will demand an end to this little adventure.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
That's extremely fortunate for that particular person. The experince I had dealing with my ex-wife's bankruptcy was not the same. It prevented us from buying a car, and delayed the buying of our house by a good year and a half. Cars and credit cards are one thing, but I bet that person would still have a hard time buying a house without having at least 25% cash downpayment.
"But this one goes to 11!"
" However, if you are on the receiving end of a lawsuit, it is extremely stressful and a huge financial burden.
Only if you allow to be."
OK, two things here.
1. "It's extremely stressful, but only if you allow it to be."
Perhaps you are an enlightened Zen master and nothing ever gets you down, but for most average people, being sued is a huge emotional drain and and ruin health, livelihood, and relationships. I think it's naive and frankly insulting to say to people who are undergoing the stress of a lawsuit to tell them that they are just 'allowing' it to get to them. Step into the real world.
2. "It's a huge financial burden, but only if you allow it to be."
Demonstrably false. If you choose not do defend yourself, the judge will find in favor of the RIAA, and you will owe them tens of thousands of dollars. Perhaps you are a millionaire, and this would not be a huge financial burden. For most people, this means a kid not going to college. If you do choose to defend yourself, lawyer fees could easily several thousand dollars, even over ten-thousand dollars. For most people, this is a huge financial burden. Maybe not for you, but for most individuals, this would be 1/3rd to 1/2 of their yearly income.
"Given the community outrage and the back that major groups (the EFF for one) are backing the people being sued, it doesn't seem to have worked real well does it?"
I would say it's been extremely successful. How many people have they sued and eventually gotten to settle out of court? I'd bet most if not all. What community outrage are you talking about? Hostile postings on slashdot? Has that had any impact on the RIAA? Are they changing their tactics? Nope. What 'major groups' are backing those people being sued? I have news for you: the EFF is three people. It's not a 'major group' in any sense.
I don't see any of your supposed community outrage or major group backing as having had any impact whatsoever on the RIAA and their campaign.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
Well, here in Canada, they're known as the CRIA, and they routinely get their asses handed to them when they try this shit, so they're largely ignored. I assumed the rest of the world felt the same, but sadly, that doesn't seem to be.
Even labels in Canada have split from the CRIA, due to disagreements in the way they do business (including labels for larger acts like Rush and Sara McLachlan). The CRIA was founded to protect Canadian artists and companies, one of the reasons these labels left was because the CRIA was more interested in protecting US companies, than Canadian artists.
Is there anything to indicate the CRIA, RIAA, and the equivalent body in other nations are actually the same companies, though? Seems to me calling the RIAA an international organization is a bit of a stretch. They may have similar goals, but I don't think they're one and the same. Although, I suppose if they're comprised of the same corporations (Sony, EMI, Universal, Warner, etc), they might as well be one entity.
You can do it for far less than that and go further under the radar if you really want to and are very diligent and meticulous about personal cleanliness and general lifestyle cleanliness.
You need one set of durable clothing. The basics: socks, shoes, underwear, long pants, t or a shirt. Additional according to target climate: zero or more additional pairs of cotton pants (for layering in the cold), zero or more cotton long sleeve shirts (for layering in the cold), zero or more wool or cotton sweaters or sweatshirts (for layering in the cold) one or more jackets suitable for the weather--a good setup for even the coolest climates is t-shirt, two long sleeve cottons, one cotton sweatshirt, one wool sweater, one cotton hooded sweatshirt, one field jacket or heavy coat--one pair of gloves, one hat (anything more effective than a baseball cap will do). Multipurpose: one rain poncho (rainproofing, doubles as a ground layer). One sleeping bag suitable for the target climate--get a compression bag to reduce bulk, Marmot makes nice ones. Additional survival necessities: steel fork, knife, spoon, Swiss Army or Leatherman style multifunction pocket tool, Toothbrush, toothpaste, baby powder (for feet), antibacterial ointment (for first aid), miniroll of duct tape, small roll of kite string (50 pound test), one large roll of thread (pick your color) and at least five sewing needles (you'll break a few unless you have prior proficiency in hand-sewing). You can fit just about everything (except the sleeping bag, which should come with its own tote bag) into a standard size backpack. Extra clothes can be folded up or secured, with the kite string, to one of the bags. State issued ID--preferably a US passport (not 100% necessary but makes random encounters with local authorities go quickly and without mishap). It may take a bit of practice to refine your particular carryall system.
That's about it. Choose an urban location in a moderate climate (ie. not the desert, not anywhere with heavy snowfall or severe cold temperatures) with readily accessible toilet facilities, a readily accessible supply of drinking water, but far enough towards the edges of urban jungle so that you can find a sleeping spot that's relatively secluded. You should be able to set up your sleeping spot in less than five minutes and pack up in the morning in a similar amount of time. Use the rain poncho to cover the ground where you will spread out your sleeping bag. If it rains during the day then you can wear the rain poncho and have what I used to call "free car wash day" but is now "free rain poncho wash day". If it rains at night, well, spend the night walking around in the rain poncho. If that's the worst of your worries--staying awake for a night--then life isn't so bad.
Note that this lifestyle requires staying clean. No heavy drinking as humans tend to become forgetful, at best, or outright stupid, at worst, when drinking is involved. Heavy drinking is the number one cause for torn clothes, dropped items, unfortunate encounters with the police, or falling asleep under the wrong tree and being awakened by the police (or worse). Heavy use of hard or debilitating drugs is also discouraged--habitual use of cocaine, crack cocaine, or crystalline methamphetamine will cause you to become involved with people who will only see you as a potential slave. Habitual use of marijuana isn't, in and of itself, terribly debilitating but be forewarned that "street demons" look for marijuana users and prey on them to satisfy their addiction to the harder drugs. Don't worry about showers. During the summer time spend time on beaches or at parks where you can sponge bath (a bathing suit comes in handy) off after a good sweat. Don't worry much about body odor--with proper self-care and maintenance it will eventually moderate itself.
Learn to deal with hunger. You will have days where you are hungry--COPE. As long as you have water the human body can go for, probably, months without a good meal. I can personally go for abou
the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac