US Bans Sales of iPods To North Korea

gamer4Life writes "The United States has created their list of products banned from being exported to North Korea. This list includes iPods, plasma televisions and Segway electric scooters. U.S. intelligence officials who helped produce the Bush administration's list said Kim prefers Mercedes, BMW and Cadillac cars; Japanese and Harley Davidson motorcycles; Hennessy XO cognac from France and Johnny Walker Scotch whisky; Sony cameras and Japanese air conditioners."

Comments

The Good Kind of Sanctions

[eldavojohn]

As I've posted before, I think this is a good approach.

There are good sanctions & bad sanctions. An example of bad sanctions were the sanctions the UN imposed against Iraq that caused a lot of human suffering. Yes, it put pressure on the dictator but it was easy ammo to use against the United States. Essentially claiming that we were starving and murdering the civilians--and I knew people that were saying we were doing horrible things!

When we impose sanctions on a country to pressure the dictator, I think that things like food, water, clothing & medicine should be increased with pro-American propaganda along with it. What we should decrease is things like automobiles, electronics & other high standard of living commodities. Therefore we make it annoying for the people of North Korea to get by but it isn't possible to point to conditions of people dying due to our sanctions.

Their economy might stagnate and people might die as a result of that but it's not so easy to point the finger at the UN then. In my opinion, the blocking of these high commodities is precisely how sanctions should be done. If these have little or no effect (which they probably will) then you can always ramp it up to include other things. I think one of the harsher things you could do is just block all traffic two/from North Korea from the United States. I mean, they probably block most of it already so that might not matter but internet access would be another commodity that would certainly upset me if I didn't have access to it.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[grub]

It would be a good idea if it actually worked. They were able to obtain material to make at least one atomic bomb, hardly the type of item you see at Best Buy.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[inviolet]

This [sanctiong] does not hurt the dictator.

It doesn't have to; he won't change his mind about us because we annoy him. What will get his attention is if the influential North Korean upper-classmen get pissed off at him over his policies.

The lower-class are just ballast. It's the upper-class that wields the most political power because Kim can't function without them and their thousands of separate fiefdoms. If those upper-classmen cease enjoying their lifestyle, then watch for a regime change or even a "popular uprising of the common man".

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[vertinox]

What we should decrease is things like automobiles, electronics & other high standard of living commodities. Therefore we make it annoying for the people of North Korea to get by but it isn't possible to point to conditions of people dying due to our sanctions.

Have you studied North Korea or even reviewed the stories of people have went on their friendship tours?

Even those guided tours show that North Korea has in the little of the way of cars and luxuries.

Considering most North Koreans are lucky to have a state locked radio station with electricity (if at all) they aren't going to be making much use of computers or iPods.

The only people who could make use of iPods would be the ruling party and the Military.

Considering their ability to kidnap South Korean citizens, I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem nabbing an iPod or two.

But I agree... Starving North Korea won't solve the problem either since the military has complete control and would only promote needless suffering.

The only way to solve the Korean problem is to actually give North Koreans luxuries and bring them into the western world. You see... Most NK'ers think the rest of the world is like them and is living in poverty (but often much worse conditions).

Most people that are recovered from attempts to escape to China or sent to camps so they can't tell anyone on what they saw (even though the word is getting out).

Remember... We didn't conquer the Soviet Union with sanctions, but rather blue jeans, rock and roll, and McDonalds.

If we give the North Koreans western gadgets they'll start to realize we aren't the psychotic baddies Kim Jong Il makes us out to me.

First they'll need to have proper nutrition, proper electricity, and internet access first...

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[CodeBuster]

Therefore we make it annoying for the people of North Korea to get by but it isn't possible to point to conditions of people dying due to our sanctions.

The North Korean army and the party elites will receive the majority of the food and medical supplies and the people will be no better off than they were before. It is also extremely difficult to ensure that smuggling will not provide the limited quantity of luxury goods required to keep the elites happy, especially when China says that they will inspect cargo, but look the other way when the price is right. You have to remember that the rulers of these communist regimes in China and especially North Korea grew up in a complete moral and ethical vacuum cut off from any concerns for their people insofar as it does not damage them politically. They operate under the golden rule over there but their version is, "He who has the gold makes the rules" and "If you can get away with it there is nothing wrong with it."

Their economy might stagnate and people might die as a result of that but it's not so easy to point the finger at the UN then

Their economy was already stagnated and the people dying even before the sanctions were imposed, although supposedly it is better now than it was in the late 1990s when millions died of starvation.

In my opinion, the blocking of these high commodities is precisely how sanctions should be done.

The sanctioning of luxury goods will not have much effect because it will not be possible to prevent smuggling of enough quantity to satisfy demand among the party elites and the top army brass. It may mean that Kim has only a couple new BMWs and a few cases of cognac instead of a fleet of Cadillac SUVs and all the liquor that he and his cronies can drink. The sanctions preceding the Iraq war didn't prevent Saddam from having his luxury SUVs, gold plated bathroom fixtures, and every other conceivable luxury that he could have possibly wanted.

If these have little or no effect (which they probably will) then you can always ramp it up to include other things.

There is a limit to how much sanctions can be ramped up because China will release supplies to ease the pressure and prevent a flood of refugees from surging across the border. China wants to give North Korea a slap on the wrist to remind their vassal state who butters their bread, but they will not support tough enough measures to collapse the North Korean regime entirely.

I think one of the harsher things you could do is just block all traffic two/from North Korea from the United States.

The only thing that would accomplish would be the enrichment of unscrupulous Chinese middlemen who would be more than willing to smuggle whatever North Korea wants for the right prices. Besides, with the exception of some foreign aid in the form of oil, medicine, and food the North Koreans were not receiving very much directly from the United States anyway and they have almost nothing that is worth anything in trade to a first world economy such as the United States.

I mean, they probably block most of it already so that might not matter but internet access would be another commodity that would certainly upset me if I didn't have access to it.

The North Korean elites probably have connections to Chinese proxies so unless you are going to block China and the rest of Asia altogether you would probably not be able to squeeze them out. As for Kim being upset, well you can always order up some random executions or send some of your political opponents off to the gulag...nothing like abuse of power to brighten your megalomaniac day.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Main Gauche]

"In other words, you make the only people your enemies who could actually overthrow the dictator you're trying to get rid of - the rich upper-class with ambitions."

Yes, the rich upper class is always the one starting revolutions.

"Great plan. No surprise you're doing so well in Iraq, you have all these excellent ideas. ;-)"

Did you read the post to which you responded? GP was contrasting his idea to the ones used in Iraq. But don't let that get in the way of a chance to make an Iraq crack.

If GP weren't already maxed out, I'd be shoving my karma points his way.

Re:Newsflash

[nido]

Seriously, why would the ban Segway exports?

Because Dean Kamen had the audacity to open his manufacturing plant in Bedford, New Hampshire (source)?

Everyone knows that the U.S. Feral Government has been actively encouraging the growth of the trade deficit for decades, in the name of screwing average american workers. Banning the export of the few things that Americans still manufacture (Segways, Harleys, Cadillacs and, apparently, personal watercraft) is yet another way of sticking it to 'the masses'. Apple shouldn't have a problem with selling Kim Jong Il his Ipods, because they can just ship a box over the border from their contract builder in China.

Open the darn border already.

[b0s0z0ku]

I'm not kidding. What would happen if South Korea just stood down across the DMZ and said "come on over if you really want to..."? I'd suspect that North Korean troops will find out how awful capitalism really is and will have ol' Kimmie Boy in front of a firing squad within half a year. North Korean fascism won't be able to last if even 10% of their population knew what lay beyond their borders!

-b.

BTW- that's why Soviet troops returning from the front after WW II often went straight to Siberia. They simply knew too much about how good the conditions were outside the Soviet Empire (this despite the fact that Germany and Poland were war-torn mudholes).

Re:North Korea is dark

[unsupported]

Dude, the people of North Korea eat leaves and twigs to survive. They are constantly told that South Korea and the rest of the world are worse off than they are. The only pictures the news shows of North Korea are of the millitary. Old busted ass Russian missile vehicles, the millitary, and Shorty Mc-Il. God forbid the rest of the world actually see the attrocities this mad man is unleashing against his own people.

[soapbox]But don't get me started on why the UN did not do anything when North Korea first uncapped their nuclear reactors. They should never have gotten this far.[/soapbox]

Re:Newsflash

[ubrgeek]

Is there a mod for "Paranoid"?

MAKE YOUR TIME

[Infinityis]

IN A.D. 2006
WAR WAS BEGINNING.
Kim: WHAT HAPPEN?
Mechanic: SOMEBODY SET UP US THE BAN.
Operator: WE GET EMBARGO.
Kim: WHAT!!
Operator: VIDEO IPOD TURN ON.
Kim: IT'S YOU!!
Bush: HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN!!
Bush: ALL YOUR IPOD ARE BELONG TO US.
Bush: YOU ARE ON THE WAY TO BOREDOM.
Dictator Kim: WHAT YOU SAY!!
Bush: YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO PRESS PLAY MAKE YOUR TIME.
Bush: HA HA HA HA....
Operator: DICTATOR!
Kim: TAKE OFF EVERY 'MP3'!!
Kim: YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DOING.
Kim: MOVE 'ITUNES'.
Kim: FOR GREAT JUSTICE