TiVo File Encryption Cracked

An anonymous reader writes "TiVo file encryption has been cracked. Details on the project can be found on the wiki. Mac and Linux users rejoice!" The project page says, "The conversion still requires the valid MAK of the TiVo which recorded the file, so it cannot be used to circumvent their protection, simply to provide the same level of access as is already available on Windows."

Comments

Possibility for series3 HD Tivo?

[adam]

After reading the linked "details" article, I am at a loss to tell whether or not this will work with HD-Tivo. I've wanted to buy one of these for a long time (and they've recently hit the market, but at $700ish I can't justify the cost unless I have some way to archive my programing (and Tivo2Go is not offered for HDcontent). HD-DVD and BluRay are both non-starters at the moment, whereas HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, etc all play assloads of HD content all the time (including many movies that aren't out on DVD yet, as well as their own series such as Deadwood, Dexter, etc).

So can anyone tell me if this actually brightens the prospects of being able to use a series 3 HD Tivo to record HD shows and then archive them offline for storage? I did RTFA but the jargon about headers and address bytes and whatnot got a little heavy for me.

Re:Possibility for series3 HD Tivo?

[Anonymous Coward]

After reading the linked "details" article, I am at a loss to tell whether or not this will work with HD-Tivo. I've wanted to buy one of these for a long time (and they've recently hit the market, but at $700ish I can't justify the cost

Amazon's third party sellers are showing $660 now. After Christmas, the price might even get down to the mid-500s for those lucky enough to order from the cheapest seller before he's out of stock. And if the DRM is a major annoyance, as the reviews suggest, one might even start seeing very cheap used items.

DMCA?

[Thunderstruck]

If I recall, the DMCA prohibits trafficing in technology to bypass security measures on copyrighted media put in place by the owners of that copyright.

The limitations on Tivo are copy protections put in place by a third party, not the owner. (I can still record the same programs on my betamax with no trouble.) Have I missed something?

Re:DMCA?

[Aadain2001]

IANAL, but from my understanding it can summed up as: the MPAA/ABC/CBS/etc can't sue them for this (they didn't put the protection in place), but TiVo certainly can!

Re:DMCA?

[ahknight]

It's not TiVo's media. You are, however, breaking the license agreement for the service if you do this and they can disconnect you. That's about it. (IANAL, either)

Re:DMCA?

[cfulmer]

Well, the relevant part of the DMCA is this:

'a technological measure "effectively controls access to a work" if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work.'

(that's 17 U.S.C. 1201(a)(3)(B)). Under your reading, where it says "with the authority of the copyright owner," that means that the copyright owner has to approve the encryption being put in place. Since I don't think Tivo has agreements with all the media companies, I don't think this applies. Also, I don't think Tivo adds anything to the media, so it doesn't have any copyright in it. So, under this section, you're right.

But, there's another section, 17 U.S.C. 1201(b) which says that you cannot traffic in something that circumvents "a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof." And, here, it does that if it "prevents, restricts, or otherwise limits the exercise of a right of a copyright owner under this title." That's a bit odd to read -- the expression "a right of a copyright owner" is a term of art which basically means "the things only copyright owners can do." The end result is that you cannot traffic in circumvention devices, even if they circumvent something that was not put there with the agreement of the copyright owner, so long as it keeps you from doing something that only the copyright owner can do (i.e. *copying*).

I think that the end result of this odd situation is that people can circumvent the encryption on the Tivo, but can't provide a tool for others to do the same thing.

[See a lawyer before you rely on this.]

Re:DMCA?

[evilviper]

'Course, unless you run Linux but have never watched a DVD, you've pretty much already opened that door.

There's every reason to believe dvdcss (and this software) is perfectly legal under the DMCA, as it falls under "interoperability":

`(3) The information acquired through the acts permitted under paragraph (1), and the means permitted under paragraph (2), may be made available to others if the person referred to in paragraph (1) or (2), as the case may be, provides such information or means solely for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title or violate applicable law other than this section.

Cool, but not *too* cool.

[Space cowboy]

It's cool that Mac/Linux users can now access their media in the same way as Windows users have been able to. It's not *too* cool (ie: dangerous to TiVo, and by extension the implementors) because you still need your MAK key, and all it does is provide the same level of access as TiVo already provide to windows users.

The crucial thing here is that TiVo took a business decision not to support Mac/Linux users. They can't really complain when those users decide to support themselves, giving themselves the same abilities that TiVo provide to Windows users...

Personally I think this is the right balance - my TiVo has been sitting in a corner since I moved house - the new cable box does everything TiVo did, and does it in HD (although the interface sucks a bit. Bad comcast). With this though, I can see a new lease of life for the TiVo ... a few creative uses come to mind :-)

Simon

Re:Yay fair use

[Lumpy]

Funny, I've been doing this with my ReplayTV for years now. I made the decision to go replay instead of Tivo back then and enjoyed full access to my content, no features removed (I still have a commercial skip button that works, no pause ad's and everything works as it should and was promised when I bought it.

Nice to see that TiVO owners can catch up to the rest of us now, but a smarter decision at the beginning would have given you that choice from the start.

if someone figures out how to take a TiVo and install a linux distro on it and a mythtv install I'll be all over buying a Tivo or two to hack, but until then. I'll keep using my networked replays.

Re:Why TiVo when you can MythTV?

[MoxFulder]

The reason hardware for MythTV costs more is because Tivo sells their hardware at a loss, because they can count on making up for it in high subscription fees.

I recently spec'ed out a MythTV box with an 80gb hard drive and hardware MPEG encoding and a nice media center case for $350 shipped from NewEgg. A pretty good deal, I'd say, and it can actually be used for other things than just watching TV (it's got an Athlon 64, 512 mb RAM, and NVidia GeForce 6150 graphics).

Re:Why TiVo when you can MythTV?

[scribblej]

One other thing I like about my MythTV. It doesn't "forget" whether I've watched a show or not after a few months. If I've watched something and told it I'm done with it, it's not going to record it again without my permission. Unlike the TiVo which will happily record shows you've watched a dozen times, if it's been long enough for the TiVo to forget.

Re:Why TiVo when you can MythTV?

[hal2814]

"Why TiVo when you can MythTV?"

Why post on-topic when you can blatantly go off-topic and get modded up for it? This is a nuts and bolts Tivo article. It's not about considering one DVR solution over another. No other solution is even on the table here. I'm not the biggest fan of Tivo but I'm getting a bit sick of these folks who feels some sort of duty to shove in a reference to MythTV every time Tivo is mentioned. I for one won't be amazed by links about MythTV but I can't read a single DVR article that doesn't have some wonky poster extolling the virtues of MythTV. We get it. We know. Stick to the topic.

Re:No it hasn't.

[mrsbrisby]

The MAK isn't the key to the encrypted stream-

Yes it is... RTFWiki.

No it isn't. read the wiki yourself. I've been following it for months.

The key is produced through a (previously) unknown tranformation involving the MAK. Since the MAK is published, as well as the cipher, as well as the protocol.

TiVo's DRM prevented Linux and Mac users from watching their shows only as a side effect. The intent of TiVo's DRM is to prevent people who don't know the MAK from watching the content.

I don't know what the intent of Tivo's DRM was, and I strongly suspect you don't either.

The DRM as implemented couldn't do what you say it was intended to do- people regularly rip from their tivo and show the results to people who don't have the MAK.

This is a nice piece of reverse engineering, but no encryption scheme was cracked.

Its a wonderful piece of reverse engineering, but if you're nitpicking that people didn't break the turing cipher, I've got news for you: Nobody had to. They broke the method of creating the key.

Re:Yay fair use

[jedidiah]

Quite simply, I shouldn't need to indulge in a "hack" that is a well known secret in order to get my PVR to skip ahead 30 seconds. You've just been conditioned to accept this. Nevermind how annoying it is anytime there's a power hit.

It's really quite nice being able to completely power down the MythTV box that sits in my living room. If I do the same to my Tivo, not only does stuff not get recorded but I will have to re-enter that stupid hack to get my 30-second skip back again.

That's not even getting into the fact that any PC in the rest of the house can be a cheap and easy "Tivo" for free, part time, and without needing to maintain another payware Tivo subscription.

How much would 4 Tivo's cost you on a monthly basis?

Re:Why TiVo when you can MythTV?

[the_crowbar]

$500 for a TiVO w/ Lifetime subscription is not a bad price, but let me break down my MythTV box.

• $119 nMedia Media Center Case I could have used an old beige box, but this case fits in perfectly with my other components
• $88 Athlon64 3000+ CPU
• $87 Asus A8N-VM CSM motherboard with Geforce 6150 onboard
• $95 Seagate 400GB SATA 3.0 HD
• $90 1GB DDR RAM Crucial ValueRAM
• $10 Universal Remote
• $5 Homemade Serial IR receiver
• $40 2 WinTV software encoder cards from Ebay

Total: $534

I happen to have Charter HD cable with a Motorola DCT-6200 cable box. This cable box has a FireWire port that can be used to record shows in HD. Because my Asus MB has FireWire built-in my ~$530 Myth box has 1 x HD Tuner, 2 x SD Tuner. No fees (except my cable fee) and 3 tuners with a 400 GB HD for storage. If I wanted to I could rent a second HD cable box and have 2 HD tuners, but that is overkill for me.

For $530 dollars and a little bit of time I have a box that far exceeds the TiVO and records my HD content in DRM free MPEG2. Plus, if I ever need to I can reformat the HD and use it as a decent desktop PC.

Next paragraph added to avoid lameness filter.

Above I priced out a basic MythTV box. My actually Myth Box is a little better with a PVR-500 (hardware MPEG2 encoder card) and I have several remote controls for it. I currently use a ATI RF remote (~$30 @ NewEgg). I would not recommend it unless you already have one. It works fine, but the button response is slow (1 press/sec). I have (yet to be installed) a Windows Media Center remote. I have tested it and it seems to work quite well. I also have tried the remote that came with my cable box. It works well, but I was unable to prevent the signal from changing the cable box. I have tried several multi function remotes with different homebrew receivers. I was able to configure everyone of them with MythTV and LIRC. I also have a gyration wireless keyboard/mouse connected to the system.

More crap to bypass the lameness filter. thoiioe uiowjelkf auieohfla jsioayruhd aypiorhpqjhp iywphrqodhnq qyprhaondpohap qihd hqahd q doiahdoh kljsgf kljsgldf lkjgasldf lgsf lkagfd lkaghf agf jag jklgad iuotqwr bkjhs htaia hgskjdg aghsg lagsl lkagd lagsd algda lagld ad aldgla dlkasg dlagd aldga lslagls dlags dlgald aldglagdla dlkagld aldgla dagd lagd algdl adlagd agdlagd aldglagd adg aldg aldg

Thanks,
the_crowbar

Re:Why TiVo when you can MythTV?

[FatAlb3rt]

Your MythTV didn't cost you $60. Just because someone donated the computer to you doesn't mean it was free.

Although I'm not sure what your point is here, I guess I'll go with it. Just because you griped enough to DirecTV and didn't get charged for a year doesn't make it free to you either. Be sure to count the time on the phone with them, the downtime without the service, and the general BS that you have to put up with when speaking w/ customer service.

There's that and there's the time it cost you to put it all together and get it working.

Depending on who you are, this is part of the adventure. Maybe as much fun and memorable as actually using it when you're finished.

Re:Yay fair use

[walt-sjc]

I'll respond to this a bit... I have 2 DirectTivo's - a series 1 and a series 2.

I DO like my Tivo, but it is showing it's age. It's slow, and the feature you mention as "commercial skip" isn't (it's a 30 second skip.) I also want the ability to get programs off it (which I'll probably add a cache+net card to do on the S1.) At this point, after using tivo for about 5 years now, I want more. I want more flexibility, speed, features (play MP3's, photos, etc.) and storage. The Tivo has served me well, but it's time for Myth with my modded series 1 behind it to feed it. My noisy myth server with a pile of drives will sit in the nice cool basement, and I'll use some cheap desktops (or maybe even mac minis) on a few front-ends around the house.

Re:Yay fair use

[trix7117]

It's really quite nice being able to completely power down the MythTV box that sits in my living room. If I do the same to my Tivo, not only does stuff not get recorded but I will have to re-enter that stupid hack to get my 30-second skip back again.

Are you saying that if you "completely power down the MythTV box" it somehow continues to record your shows? Are you talking about your master backend machine or a remote frontend? If you're talking about a frontend-only machine, that really isn't the same as turning off the TiVo. Also, does turning the power off on a TiVo (not pulling the power plug or anything) actually stop the box from recording? I haven't had a TiVo in my house for about 5 years (been using MythTV and cable company HD DVRs), but I thought the TiVo would turn itself on and record when your shows come on. I have been using MythTV for around 3 years and am a huge fan, but if you turn the box off, it isn't going to record. There are plenty of advantages of using MythTV over TiVo (the commercial skip and remote frontends you mention being 2), you don't need to be making more up.

Re:Yay fair use

[trix7117]

I know that MythTV also uses other methods including looking for the network logo which anymore is included on almost every station. I can't speak for ReplayTV, but using MythTV's combination method it probably catches about 90% of commercial breaks properly (and even the ones it misses are not big deal with a 30s skip).

Re:On a slightly related topic...

[Dewin]

I'm personally interested in Neuros OSD, which is an open source hardware solution to DVR and whatnot. The specs seem to require a separate memory card or USB hard drive though (no indication of any built-in capacity) -- and I haven't ever actually seen/purchased/played with one.

Re:Why TiVo when you can MythTV?

[the_crowbar]

You are an ac, but I would like to prove that my post was correct.

Couple of points:

• The case did come with a quiet 280 watt PSU. The only fans in the system are the PSU and the CPU cooler. The AMD stock cooler is very quiet.
• The embedded video has s-video output. I don't use it because I am doing HD over DVI. The s-video adapter does cost an extra $10 though. If you have another Asus board that has onboard s-video that adapter will work.
• $10 universal remote is not a problem. I bought a nice one off woot.com for $8. I also have a MCE remote I bought off ebay with receiver for $15. The case also has an internal IR Remote window to place the receiver inside the case.
• The WinTV may not be the best capture card, but it is as good as the TiVO. Had you read the rest of my comment, you would notice that I am now using a PVR-500 (2x 150 in single PCI card). The PVR-500 adds $135 to the cost, but that can be bought later to upgrade the system if needed.
• I don't have any parts designed to be silent, except maybe the PSU. That came with the case so is factored in to the price of the case.
• I did forget about the DVD writer. I had one lying around there was no need to buy one; had I needed to purchase one they are only ~$30. Of course I am pretty certain TiVO does not come with a DVD-Burner. Since I can easily dump video off my Myth box in MPEG2 I can use a DVD burner on any desktop PC.

I don't recall what the shipping cost were, but there was no tax. Purchased across state lines and all that. As far as research goes, there was a little. Right now I am using KnoppMyth on the system. If you want to build a fully working system with little research, check their forums. I think you may need to be registered.

With regard to ease of use, the TiVO I am sure is the easiest. If you don't want the DRM though MythTV is not hard. Granted I have several years of using Linux, but KnoppMyth is pretty easy. Just install it and at first boot it walks you through the system setup. If you get stuck post in their forum. I have been surprised at the quick responses I have gotten in the forums.

Thanks,
the_crowbar