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What Gamers Need To Know About Buying an HD TV

The excellent games coverage at the San Jose Mercury News site offers up a gamers buying guide for HD TVs. Dean Takahashi discusses the basics every HD purchaser should know, some technical issues with recent plasma and LCD advances in mind, and addresses the specific problems that gamers will face with their new purchases. From the article: "If you accidentally set your PS 3 for 1080p resolution, when the TV can only support 720p, you get a black screen. The Westinghouse TV I used displayed a message that said 'invalid format.' To reset the PS3 to the standard AV format, you shut the PS3 off. Then you hold the PS3's power button down for about 10 seconds. It will reset to standard video. If you have the Nintendo Wii, you won't have to upgrade your standard/enhanced definition TV as the Wii's best resolution is 480p. It's thankfully simple, but you get a sixth of the pixels on screen as you do with a full HDTV with a PS3."

23 of 138 comments (clear)

  1. No mention of HDTV lag by Galaga88 · · Score: 5, Informative

    This article totally neglects to mention any of the issues with HDTV lag. From my understanding, it occurs when the TV has to convert a signal to its native resolution, resulting in a several millisecond delay.

    This can be frustrating in action or rhythm games (Which is why Guitar Hero 2 has an option to compensate for it). I don't have an HDTV, so I'm not sure how bad it is but some google-fu should find plenty more on the subject.

    1. Re:No mention of HDTV lag by theskipper · · Score: 5, Funny

      On the plus side though, it gives those of us who are sub-par CS players an alternate excuse to blaming ping.

      "lucky shot n00b cuz if my tv wasnt lagging..."

    2. Re:No mention of HDTV lag by ColaMan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My advice is to watch a wall full of different brands of TV's with content that rapidly changes scenes.
      You'll soon be able to pick the ones with the slow image processors - they're the ones that are perceptibly behind the rest.

      Of course, this doesn't show the fact that they're *all* behind a little bit, but it does help weed out the crap ones.

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    3. Re:No mention of HDTV lag by Beefysworld · · Score: 2, Informative

      I recently picked up an LG 60" Plasma HDTV. Hooked up my PS2 via component and everything seemed to be fine. However, when I did start playing Guitar Hero II (including setting it to widescreen and enabling progressive scan), on hard / expert I was really out of time. Kept missing a lot of the notes, even they should have registered.

      After running through the lag calibration thing, my screen was apparently about 30ms out of whack. In normal games, this wouldn't really make that much of a difference, but in a fast moving rhythm game, it makes a big difference. You can try compensate and play notes a little earlier, but it's still not the same. Congrats to Red Octane / Harmonix for adding in the lag calibration tool..

  2. Resolution by mrchaotica · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From the article:

    I'd agree with the hype that says once you have played games in HD, it's painful to go back to standard TV.

    Wow, this guy finally figured out what us PC gamers have known for about a decade now! Who'da thunk it?

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    1. Re:Resolution by HappySqurriel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Personally, as a long time PC gamer I can honestly say that "resolution" has never been that much of a consern for me; the thing that bothers me is the artifacts that typically come from low-resolution images. As a result of this I tend to play most of my games at a resolution between 800x600 and 1280x1024 with 8xAA and 8xAF ...

      I know this goes against what some people will say but I would rather run a game at 800x600 with 8xAA and 8xAF then have the same game at 1280x1024 with no AA and AF.

    2. Re:Resolution by mrchaotica · · Score: 3, Insightful

      See, you've just proven my point: you consider 800x600 to be low resolution! For console gamers, this would be high resolution -- standard for them is 484 interlaced lines. When you start getting that low, it becomes really bad no matter how much anti-aliasing you use. For example, try playing Half-Life on the PS2 sometime. It sucks horribly, mostly due to the low resolution (the remainder of the sucking is due to the horrible controls).

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  3. Westinghouse LVM-42W2 is great by Johnso · · Score: 5, Informative

    After researching dozens of websites, a dozen stores, and going back and forth between different models, I finally bought an LCD HDTV last month. I decided on the LVM-42W2 from Westinghouse. It has 1080p resolution, tons of inputs (including two DVIs and HDMI for hooking up your laptop) and works flawlessly. I couldn't be happier with the picture and it's by far the best price for a 40"+ 1080p screen.

    --
    I'm a signature virus. Please copy me to your signature so I can replicate.
    1. Re:Westinghouse LVM-42W2 is great by bockelboy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Can I hear an "Amen" to that.

      Our office bought the LVM-42W2 for video conferencing over the summer. Since then, 4 of us have bought the exact same model. It's got tons of inputs (all the various analog ones, 1 VGA, 2 DVI, 1 HDMI). It can do 1080p. It is cheap - finding it for $1500 is not hard, I think. I haven't run into any quirks.

      The difference between the Westinghouse and the $3000 Samsung is that the Samsung has lots of nice filters on it, whereas the Westinghouse only has the standard brightness/contrast/etc. Three points:
      1) Your 1080p/1080i source doesn't need any expensive upconverting filter technologies.
      2) You'll want a nicer up-converting image for DVD sources. This can be remedied by buying a nice $100 DVD player which does the up-conversion, instead of having the TV do it.
      3) Unless you have lots of nice TVs at home already, you won't be able to tell the difference between the Westinghouse and a $3000 set once you get it in your living room. The only way to see that the $3000 set has a marginally better picture is to put them next to each other.
      So, the extra $1500 in cost goes away once you take the set home, and in the worst case can be remedied by buying a nice DVD player (cost: $100).

      I friggin' love my TV and, at $1500, my wife even let my buy it.

    2. Re:Westinghouse LVM-42W2 is great by rapett0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not that I can add too much to what the parent said, but I agree. I have had mine now I am guessing 4-6 months and I love it. I have seen it around for even cheaper then what I gave (which was 1700), like around 1500 (US). To be honest, I can not think of any thing bad about this TV so far. Great picture, and um, great picture. I guess I should make a note that it is a monitor, so no built in tuner for HDTV (not that really bothers me), and the remote is *weak*. But otherwise, I love it actually have since recommended it to several other people. I never even watch TV on it as I am too busy with XBOX 360 in 1080 *p*. (Thought to be honest, I did not really notice any difference in 1080i vs p).

    3. Re:Westinghouse LVM-42W2 is great by Sporkinum · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is cheap - finding it for $1500 is not hard, I think.

      What frame of existence do you live in that says $1500 for a TV is cheap?
      When my current TV (27") dies and I can replace it for $300 I'll do it.

      --
      "He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
    4. Re:Westinghouse LVM-42W2 is great by kalirion · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's all about the graphics. Why do people spend $1500+ on gaming PCs when a $500 PC will play virtually all of the newest games at playable speeds (>15fps) once you turn the graphics down to bare minimum?

  4. One silver lining for PC people by Wilson_6500 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Skipping commentary on the Death Of PC Gaming etc., it's interesting to watch as consoles become more like computers as far as the gaming experience goes: compatability problems (never really had those with the NES), online content, weird crashes and errors. The bright side of all this for PC gamers is that we should start seeing fewer games being hobbled because people try to design them for PCs and consoles simultaneously (Deus Ex 2 for the canonical example).

  5. He left out something important by J.+T.+MacLeod · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Many panels these days used non-HD resolutions (stretched 1024x768 for plasma displays, for instance) or, almost as bad, an "in between" resolution. That's commonly 1366x768.

    That ensures that EVERYTHING you watch will be scaled, so you couldn't even have the clarity of watching 720p on a 1280x720 set.

    Yet the 1280x720 sets, with lower resolutions, cost more.

    Welcome to The Market.

    1. Re:He left out something important by Gizzmonic · · Score: 2

      I have had varying results with 1366x768 machines...720p on my Xbox connected via component seems to run in the correct native resolution.

      But 720p with my Mac Mini looks horrible, and is clearly NOT running in native resolution. This is a very important issue with any fixed-pixel display, and the writer of this article should be ashamed for not mentioning it.

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
  6. I can make it even simpler by My+name+is+Bucket · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Step One: Get a 5.1 system and an LCD TV that is NATIVE 1080p. If you can't afford that, save up and deal with your crappy 20" for now.

    There is no Step Two.

  7. HDTV is a clusterfuck. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    And what's more, given the borderline advertising practices of many companies, a 1024x768 display will probably be advertised as "720p!" too, even though it's really not. But because most people don't know the corresponding horizontal resolution that's supposed to go with 720p, they'll never notice.

    I wonder if you have a 1366x768 display, if you could bypass the internal scaler by feeding it a DVI signal from an HTPC, and then use the HTPC to position the 1280x720p frame in the center of the 1366x768 one, thus giving you an unscaled image?

    Any TV designer who automatically scales 1280x768 up to 1366x768 without an option to turn it off and just display it with black bars ought to be shot.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  8. Stores don't help. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Except that shopping for HDTVs is difficult, because most stores I've been to this season have them set up displaying non-HD content. At one Best Buy I visited, the guy admitted that their antenna didn't pick up any HD channels very well, so the only thing he could show us was 480p.

    At another one, everyone was crowded around the one "good looking" TV, because it was the only one displaying an HD image. All the other TVs had been tuned to an analog channel, and looked like crap by comparison.

    Until the major-market stores get their act together, it's going to be very difficult to shop for or compare HDTVs in any meaningful way. I went out to look at them in person because I thought it was ridiculous to shop for a TV without going and judging the PQ of various models in person, but I left feeling that it would just be better to shop from specs -- any subjective evaluation would have been rendered meaningless by the poor setup and conditions in stores. (The solution would have been to go to a "real" home theater store, but since I'm probably not going to pay their prices (as much as I'd like to support an independent/local, and feel guilty about it) I've hesitated to visit any.)

    Everything about HD is screwy right now. Manufacturers don't know what people want, so there are products out there that are either flat-out crappy or just mis-designed; stores aren't bothering to train their employees about how to explain or sell the new technology, making the job of a potential buyer even harder; not to mention that average people range seem to be ambivalent about the whole upgrade business. HDTV isn't like color, where once you saw it, you understood the change and could go out and buy one; it's an obvious upgrade when it's done right, but it can be a morass if it's not.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Stores don't help. by bigpat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I had a similar disappointing experience both at Circuit City and Best Buy. One problem that the Circuit City sales person explained was that they didn't have a 1080p source for putting on all the 1080p HDTVs, because of the stupid copy restrictions which downgrade a signal to 720p when it is not hooked up through a unsplittable HDMI connection. So, they would have had to have each tv hooked up to a seperate 1080p video source and couldn't just split the signal from one player. He also said that some manufacturers provided individual 1080p capable DVRs with preloaded content, which looked pretty nice, but that the contract for the demo equipment stipulated that it would not be used on any other manufacturers TVs. So, for example they couldn't show me what a 1080p picture would look like on any of the Sharp 1080p HDTVs because they contractually couldn't just switch over a demo device from another manufacturer and the biggest problem was that the store was too cheap and the sales people too lazy to make one demo 1080p player available that could have been moved to each TV that you wanted to see in 1080p. Seemed pretty stupid to me, if you are going to sell these tvs for a lot of money, then you should at least be able to demo them. Ideally, there would be a box connected to each one that allowed you to see how each different input 1080p, 1080i, 720p and 480p all looked on the TV.

      It does suck that they couldn't just run a 1080p signal to all of the 1080p TVs from one source. Really makes me worried that the new 1080p TVs are just too wrapped up in HDCP to be worth the extra expense. I'd rather have analog back if it means that we will actually be allowed to see a better picture, instead of being stuck with some unrealized capability of doing so.

    2. Re:Stores don't help. by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 2, Informative
      At another one, everyone was crowded around the one "good looking" TV, because it was the only one displaying an HD image. All the other TVs had been tuned to an analog channel, and looked like crap by comparison.

      I ran into this very same dilemma (Future Shop in Canada, akin to Best Buy - and I believe owned by them). Here' s what I did - I took a Powerbook to the store with a DVD in it, along with the various video cables.

      I knew that any HDTV I bought would have to hook up thru at least VGA and preferably DVI (the right DVI, not 'analog' DVI - still shake my head at that), and I also knew that their in-store video system would not show me a damn thing other than how crappy their distribution amplifier is.

      Most sales drones won't throw a fit when you say you want to hook up the laptop, and you have a consistent source reference that is better for direct comparisons. Only problem with this is, you can't do side-by-side, but its still a lot better than the alternative.

      If I were to offer advice, having just bought the Samsung model mentioned in the article (LCD) for exactly this primary purpose (gaming), here's what I would say:

      make damn sure there isn't a sync issue
      1080p is nice but hardly necessary; that rez is basically science fiction (content wise) for the next 4 years
      viewing angle is key
      make sure your inputs don't screw you; DVI is great, VGA is great, HDMI is nice in theory but a little ahead of the curve (mine has 2 HDMI and 1 component. Of course everything I have right now wants to talk component)
      forget the speakers, they make no difference
      the signal processor quality in the unit (upconverting, noise reduction) is VERY important. Samsung's DNIe is pretty impressive in this regard

      If you are buying a flatscreen just for a Wii - and only that - you could go for a much cheaper EDTV. Its only 480p but thats all you're ever going to get out of the Nintendo anyhow. Probably make a nice bedroom wall tv later on. I wouldn't buy a 1080p TV right now unless the money really meant nothing to me. 720p basically IS 'HD' for the foreseeable future (for a lot of reasons).

      --
      If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
  9. Re:more like computers in price too by amuro98 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    $1000 for a Dell? I don't think so - not if you plan on actually getting anything decent gaming-wise.

    Last time I priced out a machine like the one you're talking about, it was closer to $2k - and that was without a monitor. Dell charges at least 50% more than what the parts would cost if you built the system yourself. For instance, you can save yourself a chunk of change right from the start by only putting in the minimum amount of RAM you can buy into your Dell, then going to Kingston or Crucial's website and order the memory you really want. They're the same chips that Dell uses, only you pay twice as much if you buy the memory from Dell!

    About the only thing you'd be missing out on would be the case. Dell does make good cases. But at the same time, you also save yourself the agony of trying to uninstall all the extra garbage that every pre-built system comes with nowadays. You're going to do a fresh install anyways, so you might as well just build the system yourself and do it right the first time, rather than having to correct Dell's mistakes.

    Dell's are great machines if you're running an office, or need a worry-free PC for a family member living far away, but as a gamer, you can (and should) do better.

  10. Re:DLP by Darkfred · · Score: 2, Informative

    I use a mitsubishi 54" DLP for gaming and there is absolutely no lag. This is true for every input, device, and game system I have tried with it. In some of the first generation TVs you had change the settings for the inputs that required lagless operation, but this hasn't been a problem in any modern HDTV that I have seen. And by modern I mean the last 3 years.
    Don't let fud like this scare you out of getting a great looking and much cheaper DLP screen. If it has lag, which is very unlikely then take it back and get a different model.

    Regards.

    --
    ----- 70% of all statistics are completely made up.
  11. Lone voice in the wilderness by Guppy06 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've had enough problems with LCD displays on laptops and handheld devices that I simply will not buy an LCD television until the manufacturer's dead pixel policy is something other than "It's not a bug, it's a feature!" I'm not going to spend upwards of $1000 for the device's manual to include a note in the Troubleshooting section telling me not to worry about little dots that won't go away.

    With that said, personally, I just want an old-fashioned CRT, and I've been tempted by the likes of these. No rear projects or having to rethink A/V furniture, no young technologies that have new and interesting problems that have yet to be acceptably solved (be it dead pixels or greater susceptibility to burn-in), not even a rear projection, just good old-fashioned ions-on-phosphorous, and for a reasonable price. However, I'm relutctant to purchase even these because I've yet to see a direct view CRT that supports 1080p, and I see no point in getting a television that doesn't support features that will probably be worth having in the next ten years.

    And speaking of "ten years," I want an appliance, not yet another piece of technology that gets thrown out after 3-4 years. If I cannot be reasonably assured that the television I'm considering buying will neither be obsolete in three years nor outright non-functioning, my NTSC set continues to work (from back when the most complicated question I had while shopping was "What kind of inputs does it have?")