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Why the Novell / MS Deal Is Very Bad
jamienk writes "PJ from Groklaw has taken the time to really explain the big picture of the Novell/MS deal and how it all fits into the SCO case and the strategy some have employed to attack Free Software. If you thought PJ was becoming too shrill before, or if you haven't understood what the big deal is with Novell's agreement, it's really worth a read." From the article: "This is Groklaw's 2,838th article. We now have 10,545 members, who have worked very hard to disprove SCO's scurrilous claims, and we did. We succeeded, beyond my hopes when we started. But here's the sad part. As victory is in sight, Novell signs a patent agreement with Microsoft..."
I just popped over to google finance and saw that this had come in today, not mentioned in TFA: http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=2BF 9274C-A4EF-4A3F-8E14-ABFBA2178EF8
Can somebody who has been following this a bit closer explain this? It's getting quite hard to tell who is friend or foe any more...
And in any case, why bother... their stock is toast, so couldn't IBM just buy a controlling interest for $11.2M and wind it down?
Could someone explain to me, in simple terms, how this effects anything I have anything to do with?
I use Ubuntu, why should this matter to me? If the Ubuntu folks don't like what Novell is doing can't they just ignore whatever Novell is doing?
Everyone is acting like this is the end of Linux as we know it. Honestly could someone explain why this is?
I don't know about anybody else but this hasn't induced any fear, uncertainty or doubt in me about Linux.
However, it has induced REAL fear, REAL uncertainty and REAL doubt in Novell SUSE. Up until this incident started, I had pretty much decided that SUSE would be the distribution we would base all our new web/db/mail servers on owing to its combination of corporate support and ease of use.
Now I'm back on the fence considering Red Hat or another distro.
Unfortunately, I think SUSE inadvertently screwed themselves. In this regard, I have to say that Red Hat is doing an awesome job. They have deliberately tried to meet the Linux "community standards" while still being commercial. If only they were more open with their non-Fedora distributions, we would have probably standardized on Red Hat from the start.
Sunny
Be my Friend
Everything I've read by Novell in responce to the criticism from the OS community tells me that this article means nothing. Had this article came out when the deal first happened it would be different but now that Novell has communicated that they didnt' want the IP clauses in it and they actually want to make MS and Linux easier to work together I don't believe this article. It just fuels the fud factories. Novell wanted to get MS to actually allow the Visual Studios and Office on a Linux platform. Stuff like that. This deal is to form a bridge between 2 companies that really should work together instead of figthing. Imagine a world where MS and Linux worked even 25% together than they do now. Here is an open letter to the community by Novell. And other releases.
That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
Has Linus been heard from lately on this whole schomzle? He has resisted changing the kernel from GPL2 to GPL3. RMS and others (like PJ) are saying that GPL3 solves the problem going forward. Does Linus concur? Has he made any statement anywhere (like kernel.org) about how he sees the Novell/MS deal possibly changing his mind?
Just wondering
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
As I said, I don't have a problem with enthusiasm - others may feel different, because lots of peeps consider the display of emotions or enthusiasm as weakness, and they invest a lot of emotions in pretending to not care or feel something about these issues. But except for this last case, you will hardly find any criticism of groklaw and PJ that tries to address the issues she raises with logical arguments. I haven't followed the happening on groklaw in the past few years to closely, but since hell broke out about the Novell-MS deal, I have been regularly reading groklaw, and I have to say this: the oo.o fork article was not a trend, but an exception. PJ is still the same PJ I have come to know when the SCO case started: exceptionally thorough and logical in providing arguments to prove her point, but also a bit emotional and enthusiastic (which made some of her writings an easy target for those, who failing provide rational arguments concerning the points she made, dismissed her articles on the note of being "biased".)
Ok here is the deal as I see it through the eyes of a developer, sysadmin and ultimate decision maker when it comes to our linux environment. I am also the developer of quite a bit of GPL licensed code spread across the globe(not kernel). Novell and MS broke the spirit of the GPL with their little agreement, I don't care if it was legal, bottom line it is not in the community spirit. I will not ever run, recommend others run, help with others issues with any novell distributed software.
Bottom line I work for pointy haired bosses but they will not under any circumstances question what distro I run in the enterprise...novell put that in your pipe and smoke it. EV1 learned a valuable lesson and Novell should have taken note of what happens when you try to bend the rules.
... why bother... their stock is toast, so couldn't IBM just buy a controlling interest for $11.2M and wind it down?
Doing so would invite thousands of nuisance suits from people who want to be bought off by being bought out. Suing IBM would become both a neat way to make a few million bucks and an exit strategy for every failing company that could make a vuagely-plausible argument that IBM had something to do with their fall.
So instead IBM has chosen to counter-attack, sucking all the blood out of SCO and leaving a dessicated corpse hanging on a spike for all to see.
It's an object lesson on the pitfalls of trying extortion on Big Blue.
They have had this policy for a while. SCO is just the biggest band of fools-or-crooks to come along in a long time, trying something new with ramifications in one of the biggest-bucks fights in a long time: the war between Microsoft and Open Source. So SCO gets the biggest spotlight.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
My inclination has always been to think of the freedom guys as a little strident, and a little too extreme. The things Linus says about licensing have always made the most sense to me intuitively, and the other guys have always come across as a little controlling, and a little crusading.
The one thing I've taken away from the Novell/MS deal, though, is that this stuff is really complicated, and it's really dangerous. I'll be honest -- I don't understand all of the implications of the deal, or why each of the two parties decided to do it. But I feel like something's going on -- like I'm playing 3 card monte on the street or something.
I don't think that non-specialists (ie., geeks who don't think much about law) are in a good position to know what's best.
Novell, and the guys that came to Novell when they bought Ximian and SUSE, have done an incredible amount of good for our community. We are, to a certain extent, depending on Novell's patents to protect us in this coming fight. I think they're good guys, doing what they feel they have to do in order to survive.
But even if this isn't nefarious, it's made us realize that we'd be open to something similar that was nefarious. Those crazy freedom guys weren't so crazy after all.
So I think we have to trust the people who understand these treacherous waters the best -- I think that's Eban Moglen. He says that GPL3 is necessary to counter this threat, and he says it will be effective, even if the kernel remains under GPL2. The toolchain will be enough to do what we need.
I don't want to demonize Novell, because they've given me a lot of great code, and because there are people there who are real heroes to our community. I think they're mistaken, and I think Linus is mistaken to stick with GPL2. It just ain't viral enough to keep us safe.
But instead of attacking people, or getting hysterical, I think the thing to do is to listen to our best legal minds, and back GPL3. So my feeling is that Linus's honor is beyond question, he's obviously a lot smarter than I am, and he might even be smarter than Eban Moglen. But when it comes to law, I'm going to listen to Moglen.
And I would say that the Ximian guys' honor is beyond question, and that they're a lot smarter than I am as well. But I'm still going to listen to Moglen about the law.
Again, my feeling is that we shouldn't let this break down cooperation, we shouldn't let it affect the civility of our community, and we shouldn't attribute bad motives to anyone. But we should play it safe, and innoculate with GPL3.
But I can't read the terms, because it's a secret. And they don't agree in public on what, exactly, the deal was.
Boy, am I relieved!
Help stamp out iliturcy.
That's why Shuttleworth was trying to poach developers. SuSe was funding key projects...many related to Microsoft compatibility... this agreement means that all those projects are now suspect for added code that shouldn't be there. The Samba team in particular was very proud of their implementation being very clean legally... the very soul of the team was sold right out from under them!!!
Geez, I don't have the hardware drivers NOW.
:wq
They don't sue Ubuntu because those guys are clearly NOT trying to circumvent the spirit of the license. It's Nvidia and their ilk that are doing that. And as long as they aren't actually distributing code, they can get away with it. Suing Ubuntu wouldn't hurt them directly, and would hurt some good people that are trying to do the right thing, so don't expect to see that happen.
What I do expect will happen, at some point, is someone with standing to sue will initiate a dialogue with them, and they'll remove the drivers. I don't think anyone is in a huge hurry about that, however, for the reasons outlined above.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
First, they did not do much to improve Yast2 on speed, bugs and the way it handles dependencies. This alone, made me avoid its Linux products.
Now comes this Microsoft deal. With this deal, I will not even touch its Linux products even with a 10 foot long pole!
Sadly, those who predicted that Novell will do nothing good for SuSE after buying it, (just like Word Perfect), are being proven right.
Linux supports more devices "out of the box" than any other operating system ever has. Yes, even FreeBSD.
r face.c
The other key highlight of this talk was:
Closed source Linux kernel modules are illegal.
Closed source Linux kernel modules are unworkable.
Closed source Linux kernel modules are unethical.
So who the hell is this guy? He's Greg Kroah-Hartman. Who the hell is that? He's a kernel developer. His name appears 149 times in my kernel sources (Ubuntu patched, 2.6.15). And, perhaps more tellingly it appears at the top of the files:
drivers/pci/pci-sysfs.c and
drivers/pci/search.c
both of which contain many functions which are called from functions in this file:
NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-8776-pkg1/usr/src/nv/os-inte
What's that? It's wrapper for the closed source NVIDIA kernel module. What license is that under? The NVIDIA Software License. It's basically a proprietary EULA with a redistribution (without modification) exception for distros. It sure aint the GPL, or "as free" as the GPL (which is techically what the GPL requires for derived works).
So Greg.. why don't you sue them? You've made your position clear, fight them. If you havn't got the money, contact the FSF, assign your copyright to them, get them to fight. Given the choice between opening their source code or not being able to distribute their software at all, NVIDIA will choose to open their source code. How can I be so sure? Cause people buy their chipsets to integrate into things like set top boxes and other devices that run Linux. They need that embedded market, that's why they released the drivers in the first place. The problem is that no-one is making them choose.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Regardless of whether this article has any substance or is merely a frothing rant on PJ's part, I think (inadvertently?) she's overestimating the adoption rate of GPLv3.
Linus has clearly stated that he intends to keep the kernel under v2, and most of the larger projects have yet to make any meaningful statement about it.
Never mind the scores of smaller projects that don't have the resources or prowess to make an informed descision about which GPL version to use; most of them will stick with v2. I wouldn't be surprised if most projects simply followed Linus' example.
Here's the facts:
1) At the outset of the lawsuit, Microsoft paid SCO $10 million in "license fees", that were, apparently, illegally kept by SCO rather than passed on to Novell. A few years back Santa Cruz actually had to pay Microsoft for the rights to distribute Unix, now Microsoft has somehow decided it needs to pay SCO for something Unixy.
2)Microsoft then convinced Baystar, an investment management firm, to invest another $50 million or so, by saying 'if you start to lose money, we'll cover your loss' (but when Baystar started to lose money, Microsoft stopped returning Baystar's calls, literally, so Baystar started dumping every piece of SCO stock they could, as fast as their contracts would let them).
3) Meanwhile, IBM has uncovered a huge pile of emails between Darl McBride, the SCO CEO, and Microsoft, which SCO was trying to hide from IBM.
All of this is on the record in court filings. Nothing controversial about any of it. read all about it on Groklaw.
So why did Microsoft feel the need to pump huge amounts of money into a dying pissant software company at exactly the same time as it's attacking Linux with bogus copyright claims? What did Darl Mcbride and Microsoft feel the need to send each other dozens of emails that IBM wasn't supposed to know about? What's the simplest, Occams-razorish answer?
To avoid the scary threat of being called a conspiracy theorist must i do a stretch and say shit like 'uuuuuh, Microsoft maybe wants to put out it's own version of Unix and surprise us all for Christmas 2008 and uhhhhh Microsoft was just doing a good deed by putting some random Investment Firm in touch with some random Tech company and uhhhh, Darl Mcbride and Bill Gates were maybe planning on going on a fishing trip in Oregon sometime, yeh that's it, a fishing trip'.
Come on, what's YOUR simpler and more compelling theory that explains the observed facts?
Here's the facts:
1) SCO is suing IBM because SCO believes SCO copyrighted code is in the Linux kernel.
2) Microsoft and Novell signed an indemnity agreement regarding patents.
3) There is no relation between the two. SCO isn't suing IBM over Microsoft patents, and Microsoft isn't indemnifying Novell's customers regarding SCO's copyrights. These are two seperate issues, and trying to conflate them is evidence only that your tinfoil hat is on too tight.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Unfortunately, it wouldn't be a simple case to prosecute.
You see, Nvidia distributes two works they present as separate. A binary blob, and a 'shim' under the GPL, whose only purpose is to load their blob and link it into the kernel.
Also, Nvidia doesn't distribute the kernel.
So, while it's clearly illegal to distribute a working system using this two-part driver as part of the linux kernel, it's not quite clearly illegal to distribute just those two parts without the kernel, which is what Nvidia does.
They're exploiting a loophole in the GPL, and unfortunately, while I believe a court would probably rule against them in the end, once the entire situation was clearly explained, this would be an incredibly expensive proposition.
Suing distro makers that bundle the kernel, shim, and blob together in a usable form would be much easier, but you know what? No one really wants to sue a distro maker for trying to make their customers lives easier. That's a last resort, only if and when it becomes clear that simply talking to them won't do the trick. And that's how it should be. We're a community, and we don't and shouldn't jump to sue each other unless and until everything else has been tried and failed.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
The shim is not under the GPL, it's under this license. Which permits nothing but redistribution in distros, with optional modification to the wrapper (or shim) but not the binary.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Well, for one thing, Novell owns a company (now a division) called Ximian. The people behind Ximian are the people who originally developed GNOME. I believe that they are still active in the Gnome project. If I were you, I'd think about switching to Kubuntu.
Perhaps you are referring in part to Miguel de Icaza, who was among the founders of both GNOME (in 1997) and Ximian (in 1999), and is very positive about the Novell-Microsoft deal (which got him a lot of ill-will recently), but naturally other Ximian people would have been active in GNOME, since Ximian was in the business of GNOME-related things. Still, to leave GNOME because of this makes as much sense as leaving all other OSS projects that Novell employees contribute to, OpenOffice among them. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, mind you, just that if it does make sense, then you need to stop using a lot more than GNOME.
Personally, my approach to this is to see what GNOME does with the GPL3 license. As the official desktop of the GNU project, I would be surprised if GNOME doesn't move to the GPL3. Assuming it does, most of my worries will be alleviated. In particular, if one of GNOME/GTK+ and KDE/Qt move to the GPL3, and the other does not, I will in all likelihood move to the one that does, whichever it is.
Novell, IBM et al. are not Linux aficianados because they give a damn about the community, they are doing it because they make money from Linux, and because it indirectly hurts their main competitor, Microsoft. So any notion that these companies are good guys beyond their own self interest is misplaced. It just so happens that their interests and the interests of the community, at present, more or less concur. But the Novell/MS deal shows how fragile that consensus is.
Microsoft and Windows aren't going to go away overnight. And, ironically, the more Linux is adopted by companies who currently use MS, the greater the need for interoperability. My guess is that Novell thought it was gaining an edge in that market. They thought increased interoperability would lower the threshold for companies adopting Linux, because they wouln't have to replace all MS systems overnight, as long as Linux and MS systems could work together. And with Suse having unique access to interoperability API's, they would be the Distro of choice when it came to heterogenous solutions. The problem is Novell didn't anticipate the fallout from the deal. They didn't anticipate Ballmer's post-coital comments. They should have.
... patents. We need to get ride of those stupid laws.
wtf.n0x.org
Do I understand this properly?
MS signs patent agreement with Novel.
Novel introduce MS patent based technologies (WMV, DRM, interoperability stuff, etc) into their variant of Linux (while also keeping up to date with the kernel release, etc, done by the community).
People deciding which Linux to use have a choice between the souped-up version from Novel which will do lots of Windows stuff or regular Linux.
Regular Linux can't take the MS stuff into itself because it's patented. The MS Linux can take all the regular Linux stuff because it's GPL.
Result? MS start to get significant leverage over Linux by proxy, by trying to dominate the Linux variant market with "their" (e.g. Novell's) variant. MS would do this itself I think, without going through Novell, if they had the linux know-how.
MS then start putting seriously nice stuff into MS Linux, more and more people start to use it, become dependent on it, MS start making it easy to migrate from MS Linux to Windows, etc, etc - all sorts of strategies are available at that point.
I can see why a modified GPL is needed now, to exclude patented material from the kernel; this is to protect Linux from MS's embrace/extend/exterminate policy.
WTF are you talking about? I just looked at the Linux kernel license, and it's GPL. The GPL covers the kernel source itself, not third-party kernel modules. This means, that if you were to write a driver for Linux that is not included in the kernel source, your driver would not be part of the kernel, but would be your own work that you could put under the helm of an arbitrary license. This is exactly what NVIDIA is doing.
NVIDIA just wants to protect its right to conceal its chip architecture from its competitors. After all, NVIDIA DOES provide drivers for Linux, Solaris and FreeBSD. And if they were to pull them, users could still migrate to different hardware.
(And besides, which 3D accelerated graphics adapter would you suggest that has a GPL-ed driver?)
A broader base of drivers that can (and will) be shipped with GNU/Linux distributions only helps to enlarge the user base.
Nobody wants to use Windows. Me neither. But I definitely wouldn't run Linux if I couldn't make use of my hardware. So, NVIDIA's driver is the ONLY reason I'm using Linux. I have an NVIDIA card. I have no interest in using Linux with the non-3D open-source NVIDIA driver that comes with X.org (that'd be like using standard VGA in the year 2006). And I'm sure many people feel this way about the issue.
Not Bill, Uncle Fester. They didn't do the Novell deal because they cared nothing about Linux and its supporters.
Gerry
- It's way more fun to stomp SCO into the ground.
and dance around the smoking crater.
- Denying the FLOSS community the satisfaction of (1) would alienate people
- SCO's stock is likely going down from where it is.
- Buying SCO would invite other nuisance suits against IBM
- SCO has poison-pill provisions.
- Most of the heavy lifting is already done. The rest of the suit could quite possibly cost IBM much less than 10M.
- IBM could recover money from their counter-suits (From SCO itself, and possibly also executives, directors and even the lawyers).
- SCO is now very unlikely to get any money from IBM.
So, yes IBM could buy SCO with their petty cash reserve, but it would be a silly thing to do.Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
The last distribution that made a shady deal with MS to attack Linux was Caldera. Would you deploy Caldera today?
Where is that guy who'd die defending what I had to say when I need him?
Dude, have you actually heard what Steve Ballmer has to say? He cares less about making money and more about destroying the competition.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Read the Halloween Memos. They do, in fact, expend effort to crush what they see as their only real competition: http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/
Oh, you knocked that straw man down nicely, sir.
For starters, even SCO believes there is hardly any SCO copyrighted code in the Linux kernel (at MOST, we're talking about 326 lines in Linux, here). SCO is suing over IBM copyrighted code in the Linux kernel. Really.
Secondly, I never said anything at all about the relationship between the Microsoft/Novell deal and the SCO/Linux lawsuit. Your initial post seemed to deny ANY link between Microsoft and SCO, and I felt the need to correct you on that howler.
In my opinion, the main relationship between them is that Microsoft has realised that using SCO as a sockpuppet to attack Linux with has run it's course, so it's switched to a completely different tactic, namely some sort of as-yet-unclear patent FUD/threat, and it spotted the opportunity when Novell came knocking at the door and asking for cash.
The whole "making money" thing only addresses the motivation for DESTROYING other companies. It doesn't negate the end result. OSS just happens to fall into the category of "other companies" from the point of view of any corporation like Microsoft. Microsoft wants to destroy Linux collectively just like they would be interested in destroying Boland or Netscape or Oracle.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
A long time ago, Gates said the most important thing was to control the standard. This has always been msft's focus. And it has worked like all hell.
If ODF caught on, msft might lose control of the document standard. Nearly msft's worst nightmare. Consider msft's aggressive lobbying in MA.
This is not fair use, it's how the copyright law works. In regard to computer code it specifically allows you to produce code that does the exact same thing, as long as you take the "clean start" approach. In simpler words, you have to work for it, not simply copy&paste.
Fair use is another section of the copyright law, which says you can use copyrighted material for free and without requiring permission in certain cases: teaching, news, criticism, review, research etc.
(Just putting things in place. A lot of people confuse fair use with "regular" copyright.)
i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
I tend to agree. If they thought they could win, I rather think they'd be doing it, rather than just FUDding about it.
And that's almost certainly a big part of the plan. The trouble is, I don't think Redmond strategists do single objective plans. Consider SCO. That had as a prime objective getting all the rights to Linux in the hands of a single commercial entity who could then be crushed and buried at Microsoft's leisure. But as side bets the scheme held some good opportunities for breaking the GPL, discrediting free software movement, and a poke in the eye for IBM whose Linux ads have to have been seen as a direct attack at Microsoft. And the worst case (which is pretty much what they got) is they get three to five years of FUD to slow Linux adoption.
The danger here lies in assuming that just because that's all that worked in the SCO gambit, that that's all Microsoft are trying to achieve in this one. Their strategists are better than that.
Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
Incorrect. All DRI drivers are 3D accelerated. My Intel graphics hardware works very nicely in FreeBSD with the drivers Eric Anholt and Keith Packard wrote. Both of them now work for Intel, and continue to write graphics drivers under the same license as before, only now they don't spend so much time supporting ATi hardware.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
There is substantial reason to believe that kernel modules are not derived works of the kernel if they use the standard published kernel APIs, just as normal userland programs are not considered derivative works of the standard system header files and libraries, even if the userland program #include's or links against libc.so.
It's also true that the Linux kernel includes a fair amount of BSD-licensed source code, so it's obviously not true that all Linux kernel modules need to be under the GPL to be redistributed. A quick check against the Linux-2.6.0 kernel suggests 274 examples:
% find linux-2.6.0 -print0 | xargs -0 grep -l 'Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without' | wc -l
274
These files start with linux-2.6.0/arch/m68k/mac/iop.c, include the ACPI & scsi/aic7xxx drivers, NFSd (linux-2.6.0/fs/nfs/idmap.c) & SunRPC (linux-2.6.0/net/sunrpc/auth_gss/auth_gss.c), and others.
1. are distributing a derived work
While Eben Moglen may have other opinions, most people on the OSI mailing lists did not consider the nVidia driver to be a derived work of the Linux kernel.
2. is bound by the license on the kernel if they are not distributing the kernel
The answer to this is obviously no.
3. is satisfying the terms of the GPL by distributing partial source code to their driver
The answer to this is obviously no, but the nVidia driver isn't and never has been under the terms of the GPL, because nVidia wrote it themselves.
4. would only be violating copyright if they were distributing binaries with no source code wrapper
The answer to this is "probably no", going by the "published API"s standard I mentioned above for deciding whether source code constitutes a derivative work or not.
5. are guilty of contributory copyright infringement by facilitating others to distribute binaries if 4 were the case
This suggestion comes straight from Eben Moglen, and is unlikely to gain much traction in a court of law. (a) nVidia has done nothing to encourage people to redistribute a Linux kernel plus the proprietary nVidia driver. (b) nVidia releasing a free (as in "no cost to download") driver for someone to use their nVidia video card with Linux would almost certainly qualify as "fair use" and be protected under 17 USC 107.
And if not, just who would you sue? Linux users who want GLX hardware acceleration?
SCO sued it's userbase, and look how far that got them...
"The human race's favorite method for being in control of the facts is to ignore them." -Celia Green
Say what you will about RMS but he has been right just about every time he predicts something. Best example: BitKeeper.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.