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Professor Comes Up With a Way to Divide by Zero

54mc writes "The BBC reports that Dr. James Anderson, of the University of Reading, has finally conquered the problem of dividing by zero. His new number, which he calls "nullity" solves the 1200 year old problem that niether Newton nor Pythagoras could solve, the problem of zero to the zero power. Story features video (Real Player only) of Dr. Anderson explaining the "simple" concept."

18 of 1,090 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Imaginary Numbers by Alchemist253 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Uh... are you joking?

    Imaginary numbers (specifically, complex numbers, which consist of a sum of a real and an imaginary number, and which comprise the "complex plane") are INCREDIBLY important in the "real world."

    I'm just a chemist, not a mathematician, but I am well aware that imaginary numbers are critical in the Fourier transforms used every time I take an IR or NMR spectrum.

    Ever do electrical engineering? Circuit analysis is made a great deal easier when you can treat circuit elements in terms of complex numbers. All that "impedance" stuff you hear about capacitors and the like that makes it possible to apply Ohm's Law to LRC circuits.

    These also are not merely made up properties, they are fundamental to mathematics and thus (if one believes that math is the language of the universe) physics. For example, certain integrals necessarily yield imaginary results. These integrals are not of some ethereal interest, but appear throughout quantum mechanics. This is why the amplitude of a wavefunction (used, for example, in molecular modeling that allows for practical achievements like better medicines) is not the square of the wave function (or, for that matter, its absolute value) but the product of the wavefunction and ITS COMPLEX CONJUGATE.

    If you'd like more examples of the utility of complex numbers and other "random rules," check out Boas' "Mathematical Methods In The Physical Sciences."

  2. Re:Imaginary Numbers by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 3, Informative

    I hate to put it this way, but "It'll make sense when you're older". And by older, I mean when you take a higher math course. What is the square root of -1 equal to then? Nothing? Something? Saying it's "imaginary" is merely a construct that allows us to muck with things. We could say they're "happy fun times" numbers, with the symbol "hft", and it'd mean the same thing.

  3. Re:Well, thats just nullty. by Calinous · · Score: 4, Informative

    At first, numbers were integers - what you could count on your fingers. (N) Later on, numbers were fractional - in order to express the sharing of things. (Q) Later on, numbers were negative - in order to express debt. (Z) Even later on, some numbers were found not to be fractionar (the first proved was square root of 2). Enter R However, not every polinomial equation has its solutions as real numbers (see x^2+1=0). The solution to this equation was named i, with the property that i squared is -1. It was called imaginary because no real number had such property, and it is as real as a figment of your imagination ;) While other real numbers can be aproximated by integers, negative integers and fractional numbers (with better and better accuracy), i has no aproximation in any of the previous pools of numbers. In engineering, a useful aproximation for pi is 3. There is no aproximation of i as an integer.

  4. Re: Limits Anyone? by poopdeville · · Score: 4, Informative

    Infinity isn't a real number. Ergo, it cannot be the limit of a sequence, as the definition of a limit include the priviso that it is a real number.

    You can only perform the substitution lim x->a f(x) = f(a) when f is continuous at a. f(x) = 1/x is (very trivially) not continous at a = 0.

    Damnit, why is this sort of thing spilling over from sci.math now?

    --
    After all, I am strangely colored.
  5. Dr. James Anderson's actual papers by Bananatree3 · · Score: 5, Informative
    Here's the dear professor's blog entry on this very topic, which links to two papers (ONLY for the mathematically inclined):

    The first paper he describes as:

    describes how to divide by zero consistently in a non-trivial way. This shows that division by zero is no longer an error. Amongst other things, the paper explains why the standard model of arithmetic is not valid.


    The second paper he says:


    explains how to extend calculus so that it works with transreal numbers. This paper disposes of various counter "proofs" that attempt to show that division by zero is impossible. The paper ends with a very simple equation demonstrating the possibility of division by zero and challenges the reader to accept it.

    1. Re:Dr. James Anderson's actual papers by gomerbud · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just read his `papers'. While this sounds like it may be an interesting exercise in abstract algebra, I'm very concerned with the effect of this on people who haven't had upper division math.

      Axioms of Transreal Arithmetic:
              - The majority of his proofs are done `mechanically' and not provided.
              - He makes a big fuss about the validity of real arithmetic in the `Discussion'. Not a word about validity elsewhere.
              - He seems to equate IEEE floating-point arithmetic with real arithmetic.

      Transreal Analysis:
              - This is an _Analysis_ paper with no mention of continuity or epsilon neighborhoods.
              - Doesn't the isolated nullity value cause hell when doing analysis proofs with epsilon neighborhoods?
              - How exactly does one define an epsilon neighborhood around nullity?
              - A picture of the transreal `number line' does not constitute proof.
              - Attempting to disprove other people's counter proofs is not proof in itself.
              - Why not attempt all of the fun proofs and lemmas in an upper division real analysis course regarding continuity, differentiation and integration?

      --
      Kan jeg få en pils, vær så snill?
  6. The real link by albalbo · · Score: 3, Informative

    Submitter couldn't be bothered to do the research, but there is a paper written by this guy about the concept.

    --
    "Elmo knows where you live!" - The Simpsons
  7. Re:Sad, really... by weston · · Score: 3, Informative

    You simply don't define infinity and -infinity as numbers.

    Well, not Reals, at any rate:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_real_number_ line
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_projective_line

  8. Re:Argh!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, in his own paper here:

    http://www.bookofparagon.com/Mathematics/PerspexMa chineVIII.pdf

    he agrees with closely what you just said. It says nullity*14 = nullity, he's created a new mathematic Field. It still might be a load of hot air but this paper is at least more rigorous than the video's 0/0 = nullity craziness.

    If you don't know what a Field is its kind of like a different universe for numbers with different rules than the one's we're taught in school. Another example of a Field would be discrete mathmatics which is used for encryption.

  9. Re:Basic math by Boronx · · Score: 3, Informative

    The answer to a / 0 is defined as the limit for a / x when x approaches 0.

    So you've proved that f(x) = 0/x is continuous?

    lim x->0 (23 / x)
    lim x->0 (-5 / x)


    Neither of these exist.

  10. Re:Well, thats just nullty. by evilbessie · · Score: 3, Informative

    To be fair it's not entirely uncommon for mathematicians to invent new concepts. Take as the primary example the square root of -1, this is the imaginary number i. So having a symbol to designate dividing by zero quite sensible, does it help the maths, well no because once you divide by 0 algebra stops making sense eg.

    1 x 0 = 0
    (1 x 0)/0 = 0/0
    and
    2 x 0 = 0
    (2 x 0)/0 = 0/0
    It then follows that
    (1 x 0)/0 = 0/0 = (2 x 0)/0
    so you have
    1 x 0/0 = 2 x 0/0
    cancelling the x 0/0 you have
    1 = 2
    (there are more elegant proofs than this i just can't remember them this morning)

  11. Re:Basic math by Chowderbags · · Score: 4, Informative

    The limit of a constant over x as x approaches zero would depend on which direction you're approaching x from. For 23/x, if you approach 0 from the left, you get -inf, and if you approach it from the right you get a positive inf. Really, though, the behavior is better defined as an unbounded number approaching positive or negative infinity.

    lim x->0+ (1/x) = inf
    lim x->0- (1/x) = -inf

  12. Re:Basic math by saigon_from_europe · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you speak about limeses, then it depends how you go toward some value (toward 0 in this case).

    For instance, both functions f1(x)=sin(x) and f2(x)=x are 0 for x = 0, but

    lim x->0 (sin(x)/x) = 1, as we know.

    If you take function like f1(x) = x*sin(x) and other one f2(x) = x then

    lim x-> f1(x)/f2(x) = 0.

    In these two cases, "0/0" have different values.

    When you use division in limeses, the path you take is important, i.e. functions that describe in which way you go toward 0. That's why other posters mentioned continuity and other stuff related to functions, and not related to numbers.

    Big breakthrough would be to solve lim x->0 f1(x)/f2(x) for f1(x) = 0, f2(x) = 0.

    --
    No sig today.
  13. the problem by idlake · · Score: 3, Informative

    The problem isn't that people haven't figured out ways of dividing by zero, the problem is that there are many different ways in which you could reasonably define division by zero, and they are not mutually consistent. Wikipedia lists some of them.

  14. Re:Argh!!! by 3rd_Floo · · Score: 5, Informative
    Computers can't deal with imaginary numbers natively...
    Uhh, they sure can. GNU C, for instance, has a complex qualifier.

    I think the GP was refering to the hardware level, not an abstract software layer. Where traditonal computers, even those with modern math extensions dont know what an imaginary or complex number is. Normally, two floating point values are used to represent complex arithmetic, however its not a native operation, and still requires some software logic to be accomplished.
  15. Re:Argh!!! by liquidsin · · Score: 4, Informative

    if a=b, then (a-b) = 0. going from the fifth line to the sixth line, when you divided out (a-b) from both sides, you were, in fact, introducing a nullity.

    --
    do not read this line twice.
  16. Infinity is not a number by raftpeople · · Score: 3, Informative

    "one could technically define a set of numbers which includes +=infinity"

    Technically you could not do this. Remember, infinity is not a number, it is a concept meaning an unbounded limit. There are rules for including it in algebraic equations, but it is still not a "number."

  17. Re:Well, thats just nullty. by Dan+D. · · Score: 3, Informative
    I only know of one proof for why 1 + 1 = 2, and I've been wondering if there are other proofs. It *is* almost too bad that those abstract concepts aren't taught more at the younger age. I asked some of my nieces and nephews why 2 + 2 = 4 and they essentially showed me the proof on their fingers (although using the whole numbers which makes sense because they haven't really been taught 0 yet...)

    Anyway the proof as I know it is this: Define 0 as a number. Define a successor function which takes a number as input and produces a number as output. Then start defining some labels like 1 (doesn't really have to be 1, could be the Symbol formerly known as Prince... just a label... still the same crazy music genius... this, it would be nice if were explained more...) is the Successor of 0, 2 is the Successor of the Successor of 0, 3 and then 4 in the same way. Then finally define + as the following construction: 0 + any number = that any number and S(x) + S(y) = x + S(S(y).

    2 + 2 = 4
    S(S(0)) + S(S(0)) = S(S(S(S(0)))) by definitions above.
    S(0) + S(S(S(0))) = S(S(S(S(0)))) by the second rule of +
    0 + S(S(S(S(0)))) = S(S(S(S(0)))) again by the second rule of +
    S(S(S(S(0)))) = S(S(S(S(0)))) by the first rule of +
    QED

    Anyway, ask some 6 year old who knows how to count on their fingers... they'll show you that (holding two sets of fingers on either hand and then counting the "successors" by dropping fingers as they go.)

    --
    People who quote themselves bug the crap out of me -- Me.