Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Java SE 6 Released

Posted by Hemos on from the upgrade-maybe dept.

twofish writes "Sun has announced the availability of Java Standard Edition 6 final release. JSE6 now has dynamic language support. It comes pre-delivered with Netscape's Rhino, a Javascript engine, and the scripting project's home page documents many other available scripting languages, including awk, Jelly, Pnuts, Python, Ruby, and Scheme. In addition a lot of work has been done on the libraries and run-time compiler. The JIT has been improved, with better runtime analysis of program characteristics, giving notable performance improvements. Other improvements include better desktop support, improvements in Swing look and feel, Windows Vista support, and better diagnostic support (For example, profilers and debuggers can now attach to a running JVM without specifically using a debugging-capable configuration. For example, if a problem is found at run-time for a production server, a debugger can attach to it without restarting the server). Sun is also offering sixty days of free developer support for JSE 6 through their Developer Services program."

146 comments

  1. That's great by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 0, Troll
    The JIT has been improved, with better runtime analysis of program characteristics, giving notable performance improvements
    Great! Just In Time to take advantage of that in the new version of my application.

    Laugh 2.0.
    --
    It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
    Be yourself no matter what they say
    1. Re:That's great by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I would like to point to the last sentence of the parent post.

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
  2. Is it any faster for client-side apps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    While Java performs acceptably for server applications, it has traditionally been quite lousy when it comes to client-side development. A big problem with this was that their Swing toolkit is goddamn slow. I really don't know why, nor do I particularly care why. What I'm interested in is if anything has been done in Java SE 6 to improve the quality and performance of Swing, to the point that it's at least comparable to SWT. So has it?

    1. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by hey! · · Score: 1

      A big problem with this was that their Swing toolkit is goddamn slow. I really don't know why, nor do I particularly care why.


      Well, why is very important. I am not a Java GUI programmer, but it seems to me highly implausible that widget rendering or event dispatching is a limiting factor on a modern system. This suggests that if Swing programs are often slow, something in its basic design encourages certain bad usage patterns. This seems to be consistent with what I have seen, which is that many if not most Java GUIs these days seem to be OK nearly all of the time. I'm reasonably sure it's not because they are all SWT apps.

      Which is not to say Swing isn't a problem; it may take more skill to use well than a toolkit should.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    2. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by J.Y.Kelly · · Score: 5, Informative
      A big problem with this was that their Swing toolkit is goddamn slow

      You know, every time a java story appears here this line gets trotted out, but I'm really not sure that it's anywhere near as valid as it once might have been. From what I understand Sun have made a lot of efforts in the last few releases (1.3+) to speed up swing. I've written quite a few java applications in the last couple of years, all swing based, and none of them has caused me to have any concerns over the speed of the GUI toolkit.

      Sure swing still has some other issues issues (eg proper native look and feel), but I'm sure that a lot of the complaints people have about the toolkit's speed are either very old prejudices or stem from poor coding within the application rather than from swing itself.

    3. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eclipse (eclipse.org) has done a good job of providing a respnosive GUI for Java apps. I dont quite like the SWT and JFC APIs as they seems Winowsy and MFC ish, but when you look at the finished product, its worth the price.

    4. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by SQLz · · Score: 1

      I think this was true 5 or 6 years ago, the same can't be said now.

    5. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by 0xABADC0DA · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Java GUIs have traditionally been 'slow' because they are double-buffered by default, and as a consequence they redraw completely before displaying. Hardware simply wasn't fast enough to do this gracefully -- it's only recently that most gnome/kde applications and some xp ones are expected to be double-buffered.

      The double-buffering also lead to lots of inefficient widget redrawing, like for a while each widget was cleared with the bg color before being redrawn even if it then say put an image say over its whole area.

      The other major slowdown was because Java's graphics were much more advanced than necessary, for example lines of width != 1 with end and joint caps, antialiasing, clipping regions (instead of boxes), custom renderers, etc. This made it difficult to integrate with the simple hardware acceleration at the time. Native apps had jaggy lines and solid colors as the main features.

    6. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by samkass · · Score: 4, Interesting

      More information can be found at Chris Campbell's blog, but yes, graphics are much faster in JDK 6 especially with the OpenGL pipeline turned on, although they were hardly "slow" in JDK 5. Also, the JIT compiler has been largely reworked to improve codegen (especially with -server flag specified).

      Another common complaint about Java UIs is that the dynamic loading/binding/compiling/optimizing makes things slow the first time anything is done, a little less slow the second time, then reasonably zippy from then on. So the longer you work in a Java app, the faster it gets. In any case, I code in Java IDEs all day long and they don't seem any slower than native apps.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    7. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's not. I've been using the Java 6 beta builds since they were released, and the UIs are no faster than they were in Java 1.5 - and this includes SWT. Both Swing and SWT randomly stop for several seconds while you're using them - I'm assuming that's the GC. Both randomly cause massive paging and lots of thrashing when restoring their window from being minimized. This is on a Dual Core laptop with 1GB of RAM.

      They're both reasonably snappy when for simple things like clicking on buttons or opening menus. As before, only SWT comes anywhere close to acting like a native app (since it's actually using native controls) while Swing remains slightly off.

      All in all, Swing remains noticeably slower than SWT, presumably because Swing draws the widgets using Java and SWT has native code draw the widgets. In either case it's clear that you're not using a native app - the random freezes get to be annoying after a while. Native apps generally won't randomly freeze for 5 seconds every 20 minutes or so.

    8. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What your describing would be symptomatic of the garbage collector cutting in, as you suggest, and given the lock and stop nature of GC in Java this isn't very surprising. But I genuinely can't remember the last time I noticed it. I use IDEA as my primary IDE (which is Swing based) and Netbeans (also Swing) for some other stuff. I use quick a lot of other Swing based tools during my development day (Tivoli, Jedit, DbVisualizer), and I honestly don't find a problem using them. Haven't for at least 3 years now. And my machine has a considerably lower spec than yours. I wonder how much other stuff you have running that may be already chewing through the physical memory on the machine.

      Your Swing/SWT comparison is also quite interesting. I'm assuming you're running Windows, but Swing, since version 5 to some extent and more so in version 6, will use a native widget call if a suitable native widget can be found, so again I'm surprised that you're finding it slower than SWT - they're doing more-or-less the same thing. There is a little bit of overhead in Swing to allow better support for things like dragging and dropping between native and non-native apps seamlessly, but again not anything I'd expect you to notice.

    9. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Some guy wrote a SWT-compatible library that used Swing components and it was FASTER then SWT because Swing uses an opengl pipeline so gets more hardware support for rendering. The only reason to use SWT is to get a native interface.

    10. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Java5 and java6 are alot faster than its previous versions as dynamic class loading and other features are now used. Also swing is not threaded by default unlike every other toolkit out there. This means the gui would appear unresponsive if the rest of the app was busy doing something. Java6 threads the swing classes by default now which should eliminate this issue with poorly coded java apps.

      I have used java5 on my old pentiumM 1.7 ghz notebook and it runs perfectly fine.

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
    11. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From what I understand Sun have made a lot of efforts in the last few releases (1.3+) to speed up swing. I've written quite a few java applications in the last couple of years, all swing based, and none of them has caused me to have any concerns over the speed of the GUI toolkit.

      First of all, Sun shouldn't have to be making "efforts" to improve the performance of Swing. They should have gotten it right from the onset. After all, it was the second Java-based GUI toolkit they had worked on. Between the various X11, NeWS and OpenWindows GUI toolkits Sun has been responsible for, it's a field they should be absolute experts in. Performance issues should not be a problem, considering their 20 years of experience.

      As for the performance of Java 1.3 and onwards, it's not very good. Try using any moderate sized Swing application on a system with a sub-1 GHz CPU. It's not fun, even when you have 2 GB of memory. And keep in mind that many companies out there still have such desktop systems for their everyday use, and don't plan on upgrading for a long time. Any employee time wasted due to a slow client-side application GUI is money going right down the drain. And frankly, that's not good for business. While MFC or wxWidgets applications runs just fine on such systems, Swing apps have always been problematically slow on such systems.

      The business I work for runs a network of systems like that. We've run the numbers, and upgrading our hardware just wouldn't be a cost-effective path to take. Just last week we tried using some of our applications on Java 1.4, Java 5 and Java 6 Beta on our 900 MHz systems (with 1 GB of RAM), to see what the performance was like. It was fucking pathetic for all of them, even using the OpenGL rendering pipeline of Java 6. Just to make sure it wasn't a problem our applications, we tried several notable Swing products, including NetBeans. Again, it was goddamn terrible, even at the most basic of tasks. We'd literally have to wait two to three seconds while the main window menus were being redrawn. Over a course of a year, and for each employee, that adds up to a lot of wasted time.

    12. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by Veilrap · · Score: 1

      Actually it can be said. Java still runs slower now on Sun's virtual machine on windows machines than it did years ago on Microsoft's VM. Of course Mircosoft's VM is obsolete, but it's still saying something. Java simply can't compete with other languages on speed and I've never seen a convincing argument stating otherwise. I run a few tests on Sun's JVM a couple times a year, then promptly uninstall it in disappointment.

    13. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since it was brought up, anyone know why it is called the Swing toolkit? I've looked everywhere and I can't find anything, perhaps one of our local slashdotters is an insider willing to let the secret out.

    14. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by SQLz · · Score: 1

      What do these tests entail?

    15. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by asb · · Score: 2, Informative

      What you say about double buffering is incorrect. Double buffering means that the components are first drawn into an off screen graphics context (simply put an "image") that is not displayed. After all components have been drawn off screen the result is displayed on the screen in one fast operation. The effect (and the reason why double buffering is used) is that users never see an incompletely drawn display.

      The only performance difference to unbuffered drawing comes from increased memory usage and the displaying of that "image". Double buffering does not require any more steps during component drawing than unbuffered display. The useless clearing you talk about can be resolved by setting component opaqueness to correct value.

      --
      Antti S. Brax - Old school - http://www.iki.fi/asb/
    16. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by Vintermann · · Score: 1

      "Sure swing still has some other issues issues (eg proper native look and feel)"

      I remember reading somewhere that they had been working at improving that lately. I couldn't find the article, but here is some illustration of the improvements for the native GTK look and feel.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    17. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      bollocks! Swing is rubbish, and always will be.

    18. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by 0xABADC0DA · · Score: 1

      they are double-buffered by default, and as a consequence they redraw completely before displaying If you read what I wrote and use just a little imagination you should figure out that non-double-buffered apps are 'fast' because they don't redraw completely. When you opaque-resize an app many times the interior components in non-double-buffered systems are not even redrawn at all until the resize is done so only the top-level structural elements get drawn. This is pretty much impossible with double-buffering, but gives users the feeling that the redraw is much quicker than it actually is.

      The only performance difference to unbuffered drawing comes from increased memory usage and the displaying of that "image". This is true only if the graphics operations can be accelerated equally well on the buffer image. Many of Java's primitives were implemented in software because the hardware did not accelerate them, and in general images in the computer's main memory are not accelerated by most graphics cards. Note that I mentioned the unnecessarily complex graphics in the original post.

      The useless clearing you talk about can be resolved by setting component opaqueness to correct value. For a while doing that only removed *one* of the background clears (I implemented a look and feel btw). But who cares? The point is that unless you see a component redrawing you as a component developer are not likely to clue in that you are wasting resources drawing it. The fact of the background being cleared is but one small example to illustrate the point.
    19. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by PastaLover · · Score: 1

      Once you go to a newer pc (e.g. something like a P4+ with 1GB RAM) it improves considerably. What I find really annoying is that it still varies a lot from platform to platform. I've run azureus (a popular bittorrent app in SWT) on both windows and linux and several parts of the interface just worked better under windows. It links to the GTK-java libraries under linux so should in theory be pretty snappy, but the difference (especially in the 'peers' dialog) is very noticeable. As to your comment about slower PC's, I've tried running jEdit on a P3 with win2000 and it was indeed not pretty.

      A thing with clientside java apps you might have also noticed, they really try very hard at reaching their OOM condition. Having done some java coding myself, I believe a big portion of it is simply bad coding, e.g. not clearing your references, keeping way too much info in memory, not using java.nio when you should, etc. This is more of a developer problem, but I believe inevitable when you abstract away as much as you do in java. Still prefer its memory handling to that of C though. :-)

    20. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Swing/AWT have always had their own thread (threads actually, but really only one, the Event Queue thread is where Swing apps run). The problem has been, and still is, that many app developers who also write client Swing code did not know how to properly handle long running tasks (such as talking to a server or file system) in Swing (or other single threaded GUIs for that matter - of which most are at the level of the app).

      JDK 6 adds an enhanced and easier to use version of the SwingWorker class to the JDK by default. This class, in various incarnations has been around for quite some time. It is still either used too little or used improperly. Personally I prefer to use Spin proxies as they are much more seamless, less trouble and don't pollute the code as much as SwingWorker does - also less chance to be used incorrectly.

      That said, I don't think Swing programming threading issues have much to do with the perception of Java client apps being slow - those threading issues usually result in the app freezing for a while (while something is done) - but that is different from seeming slow, the perception there is that the app has frozen or crashed.

      I think the perception of slowness comes misuse of various Java patterns. For example, one of the first Java client apps I worked on used the Observer pattern instead of the Listener pattern. Changing from Observer to Listener resulted in reducing the number of event notifications from about 10K to about 10 everytime the mouse was moved. Further filtering reduced that to about two. A little profiling and a wise choice of logic made that app seem much faster. The point is that one should not just assume the reason a Java app is slow is because it was written in Java - sometimes the craftsman just doesn't understand how to properly use the tool.

    21. Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? by Laz10 · · Score: 1

      Interesting ... where can I find that library?

      I couldn't locate it with google.

  3. Features? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not as excited about this as 5. What are the main new features?

    1. Re:Features? by badfish99 · · Score: 0, Troll

      On Sun's web page announcing this exciting new release, there's a link to the list of "new features and enhancements". When I clicked on it, it said "404: not found". I think that sums up Java quite nicely.

    2. Re:Features? by Decaff · · Score: 1

      I'm not as excited about this as 5. What are the main new features?

      Performance improvements, scripting interface, far better native look-and-feels, much improved debugging and profiling (far easier to connect tools with any running program), lots of XML and web services stuff.

    3. Re:Features? by aled · · Score: 2, Informative
      On Sun's web page announcing this exciting new release, there's a link to the list of "new features and enhancements". When I clicked on it, it said "404: not found". I think that sums up Java quite nicely.


      Nice (or not so nice) try of trolling FUD but the link works fine.
      --

      "I think this line is mostly filler"
    4. Re:Features? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try to click on one of the links from your link.... 404 not found.

    5. Re:Features? by aled · · Score: 1

      I'll correct my previous post: some of the links from the page are bad, others work right. Perhaps Sun hasn't yet updated all the references?

      --

      "I think this line is mostly filler"
  4. The java updater and some links still go to v 5 r9 by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    Here is link to
    Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment 6 https://sdlc3e.sun.com/ECom/EComActionServlet;jses sionid=C4783514291DD63EE652A5C2135F4C43

  5. Awesome by NaCh0 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    As if Java and Javascript weren't already confused enough.

    Here goes a whole new round of n00b education.

    Maybe on the plus side javascript will begin to suck less.

    1. Re:Awesome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Javascript doesn't suck, spidermonkey, jscript and kjs suck. You can compile js to a java class with rhino, it's still slower than Java (esp with calls to eval or with) but it could make gobs of pre-existing code reusable ;-)

      Netscapes livescript was renamed javascript because it could be used to script Java (via the browser) and now Rhino is part of the official Java runtime. Funny how that worked out.

    2. Re:Awesome by Dante+Shamest · · Score: 0
      As if Java and Javascript weren't already confused enough.
      Here goes a whole new round of n00b education.
      Maybe on the plus side javascript will begin to suck less.

      You mean Java right, you n00b.

    3. Re:Awesome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Maybe on the plus side javascript will begin to suck less.
      I hate JavaScript as much as anyone, but there's a real reason why it sucks. It's not like Java or other languages where there's a single implementation for each platform. Javascript has a minimum of a separate implementation per browser. Each of these implementations has it's own brand of sadistic quirks (IE's more than most, but they all do to some extent). And while a 3rd grader from the "special" class could easily identify one of a handfull of seemingly obvious changes that need to be made to the language to make it suck less that it currently does, there's no way to force those changes into the language. I'm sure the teams from Opera, Konqueror, Safari and Mozilla could all cooperate to implement changes in such a way that developers could actually use the new features, but there's that 10,000 lb gorilla in the corner who doesn't give a rat's ass that JavaScript programming is slightly less pleasant than dental surgery prior to the advent of anesthetics.

      In short, JavaScript is frozen in 2001-time because the largest vendor has no interest in keeping its implementation current. JavaScript programmed to run within Rhino only is a much more pleasant experience.
  6. The Tiger still seems fresh by hansamurai · · Score: 2, Funny

    And here I am in the middle of studying for the Java 5 certification exam while my workplace runs 1.42 and J2EE 1.3.

    --
    Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
    1. Re:The Tiger still seems fresh by bladesjester · · Score: 1

      That was kind of my first thought as well. They're coming out with the new versions awfully fast lately.

      Normally this would not be a problem, but because of JVM version dependancy, and because Java quite often changes just a little in important places for each new release, it becomes a bit of a headache.

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    2. Re:The Tiger still seems fresh by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      They're coming out with the new versions awfully fast lately.

      Are they? Java 5 was released a little over 2 years ago; my mail about it to one of our internal talk groups at work was sent on 30th September 2004 (I found it while sending a similar one about Java 6 a little while ago).

      For what it's worth, my company is still using 1.4 for all new work; hopefully this will inspire a move to at least 1.5...

      --
      It's official. Most of you are morons.
    3. Re:The Tiger still seems fresh by mfarah · · Score: 1
      And here I am in the middle of studying for the Java 5 certification exam while my workplace runs 1.42 and J2EE 1.3.



      <AOL>
      We are legion.
      </AOL>

      --
      "Trust me - I know what I'm doing."
      - Sledge Hammer
    4. Re:The Tiger still seems fresh by bwt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Java 1.5 introduced major syntax enhancements and changes. The three big features of 1.6 are scripting, profiling/debugging, and JIT performance. The nature of these changes makes it much easier to migrate, unless perhaps you had an app that was heavy on BSF (bean scripting framework), in which case you need to migrate.

  7. Downloads page still stupid by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Kudos on the new release. I'm running Vista, so the support will be nice.

    But as a user, it always amazes me how hard it is to navigate Java's downloads. Assuming non-techies know that "Java Runtime Environment" is what they need to run Java apps, you still have to dig past a JDK and NetBeans link to get to it. I tried walking a relative through downloading the JRE a week ago and it took way longer than it should have.

    1. Re:Downloads page still stupid by jbaas · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      what's so hard about "sudo apt-get install sun-java5-plugin sun-java5-bin", or "sudoe emerge sun-jre-bin"?

    2. Re:Downloads page still stupid by milton.john · · Score: 1

      For non-developers, there is page www.java.com - as I was told some time ago, it's purpose was to make it simple for users to download & install JRE (since that's all they need). Maybe the problem is with marketing this page...

    3. Re:Downloads page still stupid by david.given · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But as a user, it always amazes me how hard it is to navigate Java's downloads.

      Yeah. Sun's Java web pages quite frankly are horrific beyond all reason. I dread every time I have to go and find something there --- and frequently I just fail. The last thing I tried to get was the Linux wireless toolkit for developing J2ME apps. I managed to find 2.4 (not supported by EclipseME, which I was using.) I managed to find 2.2. But could I find 2.3? Like hell.

      If there's anyone from Sun listening, could you please find whoever is responsible for those web pages and fire them? It's this ghastly maze of long, meaningless product titles, menus that go in loops, undefined terms, endless minutely different product specs, pointless registration systems (which makes me very grateful for BugMeNot)... actually finding the useful information there is it's just too hard. If your web site is so complex and badly designed that people would rather give up than try and figure out, then, I'm afraid, you fail.

    4. Re:Downloads page still stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      try java.com, it is an ok place to send users to get a jre

    5. Re:Downloads page still stupid by Sircus · · Score: 2, Informative

      www.java.com -> first link you read, "Download now". Two clicks, no NetBeans. java.sun.com is for developers, it's reasonable that they angle it towards them.

      --
      PenguiNet: the (shareware) Windows SSH client
    6. Re:Downloads page still stupid by masklinn · · Score: 1

      what's so hard about "sudo apt-get install sun-java5-plugin sun-java5-bin", or "sudoe emerge sun-jre-bin"?

      $ sudo apt-get install sun-java5-plugin sun-java5-bin sudo: apt-get: command not found $ $ sudo emerge sun-jre-bin sudo: emerge: command not found

      Mmm that may be part of the problem.

      --
      "The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
    7. Re:Downloads page still stupid by nigelo · · Score: 1

      >it's reasonable that they angle it towards them.

      Agreed, but instead it's angled straight into the Sun, and it's blinding...

      --
      *Still* negative function...
    8. Re:Downloads page still stupid by MojoRilla · · Score: 2, Informative

      Except the version of Java on www.java.com is still Java 5 release 9. So it appears Java 6 is only partially released.

    9. Re:Downloads page still stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your web site is so complex and badly designed that people would rather give up than try and figure out, then, I'm afraid, you fail.

      If a vendor's website is so complex and badly designed, I just assume the product is at least as complex and badly designed.

    10. Re:Downloads page still stupid by CrankyOldBastard · · Score: 1

      Mmm that may be part of the problem.

      You mean the fact you use a distro with a broken package management system?

    11. Re:Downloads page still stupid by BigBuckHunter · · Score: 1

      Kudos on the new release. I'm running Vista, so the support will be nice.

      Hasn't Vista always run on java/mumps (well, for the last 5 years anyway)?
      http://neamh.cns.uni.edu/MedInfo/vista.html

      BBH

    12. Re:Downloads page still stupid by Otter · · Score: 1
      what's so hard about "sudo apt-get install sun-java5-plugin sun-java5-bin"...

      Yeah, that's great but we're talking about SE 6!

      Honestly, isn't that just Debian in a nutshell?

      --
      What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
    13. Re:Downloads page still stupid by codemachine · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't that only be true if their webmaster also designed their products? I think that'd be a silly assumption with a company the size of Sun.

      I don't think the Java websites have really changed that much over the years, which is great for those who have previously been there and know where to find what they want. Maybe not so good for someone that doesn't know what they want/need.

    14. Re:Downloads page still stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      In that case, the correct answer is "yes".

    15. Re:Downloads page still stupid by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Updates there are slow. That site still had J5r6 until recently and never posted 7 or 8. That may be where the Java auto-updater pulls from because many of our machines stuck with r6 until r9 came out.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    16. Re:Downloads page still stupid by Bacon+Bits · · Score: 1

      Just send them to http://www.java.com/. It's dead simple from there.

      --
      The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
    17. Re:Downloads page still stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sun's web site could be improved, but IBM's wins hands down for being user-vicious!

    18. Re:Downloads page still stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sun's www.java.com is targeted at the end-user and a much easier to get the latest runtime.

    19. Re:Downloads page still stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      um, http://www.java.com/ is the place to go if you're an end-user just seeking a JRE, not http://java.sun.com/.

    20. Re:Downloads page still stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      If there's anyone from Sun listening, could you please find whoever is responsible for those web pages and fire them?

      Sure, just fired the whole team.

      Cheers,
      jschwartz

    21. Re:Downloads page still stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you get them to go to the consumer site, java.com, or the developer site, java.sun.com? If you got them to go to java.sun.com, it's no wonder you thought it was complex. It's not meant for non developers. Java.com has a prominent link that at the top that goes directly to the JRE download.

    22. Re:Downloads page still stupid by Neoncow · · Score: 1

      I expect your average non-developer really doesn't care about the difference.

    23. Re:Downloads page still stupid by mabinogi · · Score: 1

      so if it's not emerge or apt, it's broken?

      I'd say if it is emerge, it's broken, unless emerge supports dependency checking on uninstall yet....

      --
      Advanced users are users too!
    24. Re:Downloads page still stupid by Sulka · · Score: 1

      PEBKAC.

      You're assuming everyone is going to Sun's Java developer website. If you google for "java download" or go to java.com and click the big honking arrow on the top of the page (or whichever way most of the consumers do), you end up here:

      http://www.java.com/en/download/index.jsp

      This page has exactly one download button that points to a download which in turn just happens to be the JRE. I fail to see how you end up on a page with Netbeans if you're looking to download Java and don't automatically start from java.sun.com.

      --
      "Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
  8. still waiting by jrwr00 · · Score: 1

    I'm still waiting for them to release java as opensource

    --
    WulframII - Free Online Mutiplayer 3D Tank Shooting Game
    1. Re:still waiting by SpaghettiPattern · · Score: 1

      Hint: Google for "java gpl"

      --

      I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
    2. Re:still waiting by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      I don't see any links to thier CVS or SVN... Or even a source tarball. Until they actually release something as open source, it's just another empty promise regarding some proprietary language.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    3. Re:still waiting by Golthar · · Score: 4, Informative

      OpenJDK project
      Hotspot

      Early 2007 we should see the class libs as well

    4. Re:still waiting by sigzero · · Score: 0

      Please, you are an idiot.

    5. Re:still waiting by BiggyP · · Score: 1

      Do you mean this particular build is officially a GPLd Java distribution? Or just that there are ongoing plans to open up bits of java but the idea of a completely functional Free OO.o package for win32 users is a way off?

      --
      Software Freedom Day!.
  9. Ask Slashdot... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    What's the best way to get back into using Java? I took a couple of programming classes when it was still Java 1.3/1.4 a few years ago and totally missed the jump to Java 5/6.

    1. Re:Ask Slashdot... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      There's a bunch of new structures (foreach comes to mind, as do generics in Collections.), but if you know 1.3/1.4, then you'll be up to speed in no time.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    2. Re:Ask Slashdot... by Golthar · · Score: 3, Informative

      Some help on getting you back in the saddle with the new features:

      1.5 features in a nutshell

    3. Re:Ask Slashdot... by LarsWestergren · · Score: 3, Informative

      What's the best way to get back into using Java? I took a couple of programming classes when it was still Java 1.3/1.4 a few years ago and totally missed the jump to Java 5/6.

      I actually enjoyed the Head First Java book from O'Reilly, though I'll probably get mocked for it here.... I admit, it can feel a bit "kiddie" to have a lot of pictures, do puzzles and so on, but involving the right half of your brain makes stuff stick better, and for me, makes it fun and fast to learn. Second edition has some Java5 stuff in it.

      If that style of learning is not for you, or if you are too advanced for that level, the Java Tutorial was pretty recently updated with new trails for Java 5 and Java 6, so you should find an appropriate level for you quickly. Also Java 5 Developer's Notebook is a neat guide.

      --

      Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die

    4. Re:Ask Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Here are lists of some new features in Java 6.

      Core features: http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2 SE/Desktop/JavaSE6_build39.html
      Desktop features: http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2 SE/Desktop/javase6/

    5. Re:Ask Slashdot... by Matt+Perry · · Score: 1

      FYI, that links to the what's new for Java 5.0 not 1.5.

      --
      Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
    6. Re:Ask Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FYI, that links to the what's new for Java 5.0 not 1.5. They're the same thing. It's another victim of 'we're not planning to change the first number anymore so let's just drop it' marketing: e.g. Solaris going from 2.6 to 7, and emacs did the same, I forget when: emacs 21.4 is really 0.21.4. We who used the old versions tend to cling to the thrown-away major version number for a few revisions but I'm just about ready to call Solaris 2.10 "10".
    7. Re:Ask Slashdot... by sr180 · · Score: 1

      Thanks to the wonder of Sun's version numbers, Java 5.0 IS Java 1.5. Isnt this exciting?

      --
      In Soviet Russia the insensitive clod is YOU!
    8. Re:Ask Slashdot... by Matt+Perry · · Score: 1

      If that's true, it sounds like Sun's marketing department needs to be replaced.

      --
      Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
    9. Re:Ask Slashdot... by sr180 · · Score: 1

      Its worse than that, Its actually J2SE 5.0. (Ie Java 2 Standard Edition Version 5.0)

      At least 1.6 is simple JSE (Java Standard Edition) 6.0

      This is not without precedent for Sun, As solaris followed this convention. 2.8 was Solaris 8, etc etc.

      --
      In Soviet Russia the insensitive clod is YOU!
    10. Re:Ask Slashdot... by tigersha · · Score: 1

      Buy "Tiger, a Developer's Notebook". Not too much to read, a small book and cheap. You can cover the languages bits in half a day to start you off.

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    11. Re:Ask Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have a look at Java Generics and Collections. Very good guide to the new features.

    12. Re:Ask Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean SunOS 5.10 ?

  10. Get a Clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The source has been available for quite a while.

  11. Bogus Link in website by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 2, Informative
    From Sun's Website:
    Java SE 6 is the current major release of the Java SE platform, with full support from NetBeans IDE 5.5. Sun endeavors to foster the highest level of transparency and collaboration on the platform with the Java community through Project JDK 6, resulting in the following key features. Sun's Java Multi-Platform Support, Training, and Certification can provide you the peace of mind to develop and deploy Java solutions with confidence.

    Download the Java SE 6 Release Candidate

    Sun says in one place its current, but links a Release Candidate in the early access site. But if you go to the J2SE Download page: http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index.jsp/ There is a link to Java 6.
    --
    If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
  12. GPL? by jZnat · · Score: 1, Redundant

    What happened to Sun releasing Java under the GPL? I'm still getting a click-wrap license agreement here...

    --
    'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
    1. Re:GPL? by Golthar · · Score: 4, Informative

      See also here

      "Q:
      When will you finish open sourcing the JDK? What is the timeline?
      A:
      We expect to release a fully buildable JDK based almost completely on open-sourced code in the first half of 2007"

    2. Re:GPL? by Pyrex5000 · · Score: 1

      According to Wikipedia, "The release of the complete sources under GPL is expected in the first quarter of 2007."

    3. Re:GPL? by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 1

      The source code is here: https://openjdk.dev.java.net/hotspot/

      The binary downloads are going to remain under that clickwrap; only the source code is GPL.

    4. Re:GPL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://openjdk.dev.java.net/source/browse/openjdk /hotspot/trunk/
      https://openjdk.dev.java.net/source/browse/openjdk /compiler/trunk/

  13. about time by Billly+Gates · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You can finally have apps that look alot more like win32 or gnome apps without using swt or some other less standard api. Also this release uses some Apple technology with their jdk by offering dynamic class loading. Startups should be alot faster. This and java7 which is already in development should be really exciting. Sun has been putting out alot of java releases recently due to .NET and competition is good.

    --
    http://saveie6.com/
    1. Re:about time by asb · · Score: 1

      Sun has been putting out alot of java releases recently due to .NET and competition is good.

      Actually, Sun has always been making a lot of Java releases. The only difference is that now they have to listen to users and implement features that users need. Yes, competition is good.

      --
      Antti S. Brax - Old school - http://www.iki.fi/asb/
    2. Re:about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can finally have apps that look alot more like win32 or gnome apps well I have been disappointed. yes, for I can say, gtk theme looks really better. but the performance with these theme has degraded. very slow.

      I am running OpenSuse linux.
  14. New features with specification references by nyri · · Score: 5, Informative
    The real specification of new features is available at JSR 270.

    The scripting support is specified at JSR 223.

    Here are some additional new features:
    • New database connection API, JDBC 4.0: JSR 221
    • New version of web services API, JAX-WS 2.0: JSR 224


    BTW, why isn't this on the front page? All the fussing about the possible new license was there but not the product publishment itself.
    1. Re:New features with specification references by Golthar · · Score: 1

      Java SE 6 is not yet the fully open source version.
      Expect the entire Java SE to be GPL by early 2007
      "http://www.sun.com/software/opensource/java/faq.j sp"

    2. Re:New features with specification references by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      BTW, why isn't this on the front page? All the fussing about the possible new license was there but not the product publishment itself.

      One could almost conclude that slashdot (or at least its editors) care more about the licence that a piece of software is released under, than the software itself.

      --
      It's official. Most of you are morons.
  15. Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Congratulations to all the hard working people at Sun, and those outside who contributed (I'm one of them).

    I tend to get +5 for these kind of posts, so this time I'll post anonymously to prevent karma wh:

    As usual, InfoQ has a nice writeup with good links.
    Sun has a confusing number of portal sites for news and communities, but the two most lively ones are probably java.net and Planet JDK.

    Remember that Java 6 is not GPL, the decision to go GPL came too late in the development phase, only JDK7 is GPL. But you can get JDK6 and JDK7 is under the Research Licence from Subversion, a good blog with info about how and where is here.

  16. Version number insanity by ThinkingInBinary · · Score: 1
    I took a couple of programming classes when it was still Java 1.3/1.4 a few years ago and totally missed the jump to Java 5/6.

    You were using the JDK 1.3/1.4, which implements Java 3/4. The language versions are numbered N, but Sun's JDK's are numbered 1.N.

    Java 5 has added:

    • auto boxing/unboxing, so if the compiler expects an int when you provide an Integer (or vice-versa, for any native type), it will automatically convert by either taking (for example) Integer.intValue or creating a new Integer object.
    • generics, so you don't have to cast objects when taking them out of a collection. Here (warning: PDF!) is a good tutorial on generics, so I don't have to explain them. Essentially you can do List<String> l= new LinkedList<String>(); l.add("foo"); System.out.println(l.first()); without the usual cast.
    • annotations, so you can mark up your code with annotations like bug reports or deprecation. Reflection encompasses annotations, so your code can see what you've said about it. This is a half-hearted description--you can do really cool stuff with it; I just haven't done anything with it yet.
    • foreach loop: for (Type thing : Collection things) { /* do stuff */ } pretty much explains it. It handles the iteration for you, and (I think) the right hand of the for loop (after the colon) can be anything that implements Iterable.

    Java 6, I'm not as knowledgeable about. But Java 5 is certainly an improvement--it makes things less wordy, although most of the changes are skin-deep; the compiler implements generics as implicit casts (which are added to the class files), and the foreach loop with an implicit iterator. And of course boxing/unboxing slows things down too. But it's prettier, and besides, if you're using Java you probably already have a handle on where the performance is good and where it suffers.

    --
    ttuttle is a rankmaniac
  17. Funny I am still with jdk 1.4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...so I suspect I will wait java until java 2.0 is out...
    but wait... j2see is java 2.0, isn't it?
    Sun numbers are so confusing....:)

    1. Re:Funny I am still with jdk 1.4 by gumpish · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's not J2SE anymore. Now it's just Java SE. (Although we still have the 5 (but really 1.5), 6 (but really 1.6) silliness, but it's a step in the right direction.

    2. Re:Funny I am still with jdk 1.4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to the world of java where jdks/jres are not backwards compatible, forwards compatible, or even compatible with themselves.

    3. Re:Funny I am still with jdk 1.4 by tomservo84 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      (Although we still have the 5 (but really 1.5), 6 (but really 1.6) silliness, but it's a step in the right direction.
      It goes right along with Solaris 8 = SunOS 5.8, Solaris 10 = SunOS 5.10, etc., etc....it must be a Sun-ism.
      --
      Agile Spaceport - You will never find a more wretched hive of scrum and villainy. We must be cautious.
    4. Re:Funny I am still with jdk 1.4 by innot · · Score: 1
      ....it must be a Sun-ism.

      Not really. Dropping major version numbers has been done a long time before Sun thought about it. For example GNU Emacs lost its major number when it went from 1.12.xx to 13.something in 1985

      --
      X IMPRIMITE "SALVE TERRA!"
      XX ITE AD X
    5. Re:Funny I am still with jdk 1.4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually its *really* 6, not 1.6...

    6. Re:Funny I am still with jdk 1.4 by njchick · · Score: 1

      Finally Sun has stopped assigning a version number to a programming language. I congratulate Java on leaving the crowd of the versioned languages and joining the elite community of the non-versioned ones.

  18. you'll know it when it happens by idlake · · Score: 1

    They say they will be releasing parts over the next few months. The first true open source release will come with Java 7. Sun promised GPL with a linking exception; I'd wait and see whether they actually deliver or whether there are some unforeseen issues with it.

    You'll know it when it happens, because that's when Linux distributions will start including it in their "free" portions. Until then, the announcement is meaningless.

    1. Re:you'll know it when it happens by Decaff · · Score: 1

      You'll know it when it happens, because that's when Linux distributions will start including it in their "free" portions. Until then, the announcement is meaningless.

      That is a bit extreme, perhaps?

    2. Re:you'll know it when it happens by idlake · · Score: 1

      No, it's not "extreme". If you want to use Java "for free", you can do so already right now. The purpose of the open source release is to allow integration into FOSS distributions, and to encourage contributions. Until that actually happens, any Java open source license makes no difference.

      Also, just because Sun says that they are going to do it doesn't mean it's going to go through without problems.

    3. Re:you'll know it when it happens by Decaff · · Score: 1

      Also, just because Sun says that they are going to do it doesn't mean it's going to go through without problems.

      My point was that it was extreme to say that say that claims that Java will be open sourced are "meaningless".

      If Sun say they are going to do it, they are going to do it, problems or not. Their statement that they are doing this is hardly "meaningless".

    4. Re:you'll know it when it happens by idlake · · Score: 2

      If Sun say they are going to do it, they are going to do it, problems or not. Their statement that they are doing this is hardly "meaningless".

      They are "meaningless" in that nothing changes for users until they actually deliver.

      And that interpretation is already assuming that they are actually being honest and that no problems crop up. Given what happened with Java standardization and the tricks they have been playing with Solaris, Sun has little credibility when it comes to open source.

    5. Re:you'll know it when it happens by Decaff · · Score: 1

      They are "meaningless" in that nothing changes for users until they actually deliver.

      Not true, of course. It means that many developers who want to stick with open source can work with Java knowing that in a matter of months, it will be open. They can change policies now.

      And that interpretation is already assuming that they are actually being honest and that no problems crop up. Given what happened with Java standardization and the tricks they have been playing with Solaris, Sun has little credibility when it comes to open source.

      Well, firstly, Solaris is certainly open source, and secondly, they have been declared not just credible when it comes to open source, but more credible than any other company by Richard Stallman. I quote: "Sun will have contributed more than any other company to free software." I think that on such matters, he knows what he is talking about. He does not think this announcement is meaningless. Neither to Tim O'Reilly, founder of O'Reilly books, or Mark Shuttleworth, founder of Ubuntu.

    6. Re:you'll know it when it happens by idlake · · Score: 0

      Not true, of course. It means that many developers who want to stick with open source can work with Java knowing that in a matter of months, it will be open. They can change policies now.

      Just like they "knew" that when Sun announce they were going for ISO or ECMA standardization, Java would be an ISO or ECMA standard? I don't think so. A press release is not a legally binding contract. Java will be open source once it has been released under that license, not a second sooner.

      Well, firstly, Solaris is certainly open source,

      Really? All of it? Or just some of it? Who can even tell.

      I quote: "Sun will have contributed more than any other company to free software."

      Yes, RMS is saying that after they have done the open source release, then that will be true. And it doesn't mean that anybody has to like Sun anymore than before. Sun made a strategic decision; you can bet that if they can screw other open source projects, they still will.

    7. Re:you'll know it when it happens by WebMink · · Score: 1

      Well, firstly, Solaris is certainly open source, Really? All of it? Or just some of it? Who can even tell.

      If you are actually interested and not trolling, I'd suggest you join the other 18,000 or so people over on OpenSolaris.org where the source code used to build Solaris is available under a Free license. You'll find a number of other OS distributions based on the same code - the most interesting is probably NextentaOS, which is essentially Debian with the kernel switched.

    8. Re:you'll know it when it happens by Decaff · · Score: 1

      Java will be open source once it has been released under that license, not a second sooner.

      Well, obviously, unless some is in possession of some sort of time warp technology. But that is not the point. The point was that the announcement was not "meaningless".

      Really? All of it? Or just some of it? Who can even tell.

      All you need to do is look.

      Yes, RMS is saying that after they have done the open source release, then that will be true. And it doesn't mean that anybody has to like Sun anymore than before. Sun made a strategic decision; you can bet that if they can screw other open source projects, they still will.

      RMS was not saying that only until after Java is open sourced will Sun have made ANY contribution to open source, what he said was that after Java is open sourced, that, together with everything else, will have made Sun the BIGGEST contributor. Java alone would not have achieved that. Therefore, by definition, Sun have already made a substantial contribution. This has included products such as Open Office - the killer application for desktop Linux.

    9. Re:you'll know it when it happens by Marcus+Green · · Score: 1

      Meaningless apart from influencing the decision making of tens of thousands of developers.

    10. Re:you'll know it when it happens by idlake · · Score: 1

      "Really? All of it? Or just some of it? Who can even tell." All you need to do is look.

      The question was rhetorical. In fact, Solaris has not been released as open source, only parts of it have been. Sun is playing word games again.

      Therefore, by definition, Sun have already made a substantial contribution.

      So what? I never said anything different. What I said was that the RMS statement that was quoted didn't apply to the announcement or Sun's previous efforts, it applied to actually open sourcing Java, something that has not happened yet.

      The point was that the announcement was not "meaningless".

      You keep saying that, you simply fail to support your argument. What exactly has changed after the announcement? Linux distributions still have the same problems with the Sun Java license they had a few weeks ago. People still can only download Sun Java by agreeing to Sun's licensing agreements.

      Until Sun actually ships Java under an open source license, nothing has changed at all.

    11. Re:you'll know it when it happens by idlake · · Score: 1

      If you are actually interested and not trolling, I'd suggest you join the other 18,000 or so people over on OpenSolaris.org where the source code used to build Solaris is available under a Free license

      In fact, according to opensolaris.org, only parts of Solaris have been released in that form.

      Thank you for illustrating my point again that we can't go by press releases or zealots like you in making platform decisions, neither with Solaris nor with Java.

    12. Re:you'll know it when it happens by WebMink · · Score: 1

      Thank you for illustrating my point again that we can't go by press releases or zealots like you in making platform decisions, neither with Solaris nor with Java.

      OK, I'm now feeding the troll, but I'll not let that smear stand. Sun has been scrupulously clear over exactly what is and is not under open source licenses. There are indeed parts of Solaris that are still encumbered, but that doesn't stop Nexenta and three other distributions building complete distributions, any more than the use of binary drivers by varying GNU/Linux distros invalidates the use of the term "Free" to describe them unless you are a complete radical - oh, sorry, it's me that's the zealot, I forgot.

      The full source to the Java class libraries will be released in the spring under GNU/Classpath apart from the bits that hostile parties refuse to relicense to Sun. Fortunately the Classpath folks are helping work round that. Now, how about some working-with rather than all this negativity?

    13. Re:you'll know it when it happens by Decaff · · Score: 1

      The question was rhetorical. In fact, Solaris has not been released as open source, only parts of it have been. Sun is playing word games again.

      No, you are the one playing word games, with petty remarks like that.

      "Therefore, by definition, Sun have already made a substantial contribution."

      So what? I never said anything different"

      yes you did:

      "Sun has little credibility when it comes to open source"

      )Maybe it is just me, but I suspect the millions who use products like Open Office may just disagree with you there)

      You keep saying that, you simply fail to support your argument. What exactly has changed after the announcement?

      That is irrelevant. You are the one making claims that the announcement is meaningless, you fail to support that.

      If it was meaningless, it would not have resulted in significant statements from major figures in the industry. They would not have wasted their time.

      Until Sun actually ships Java under an open source license, nothing has changed at all.

      Nonsense. There have already been changes in the licenses of other Java products from other vendors (which has actually happened) because of the announcement.

      You are, as I said, just playing tiresome word games.

    14. Re:you'll know it when it happens by idlake · · Score: 1

      OK, I'm now feeding the troll, but I'll not let that smear stand.

      Yeah, that's the problem: you're a zealot who views companies like people with reputations that can be smeared. Sun is a company, not a person.

      Sun has been scrupulously clear over exactly what is and is not under open source licenses. [...] There are indeed parts of Solaris that are still encumbered, but that doesn't stop Nexenta and three other distributions building complete distributions,

      Well, so it's called "OpenSolaris", but it's really not all of Solaris. How is that "scrupulously clear"?

      The full source to the Java class libraries will be released in the spring under GNU/Classpath apart from the bits that hostile parties refuse to relicense to Sun.

      Well, so it's not the full source, it's only part of the source. And we don't know whether those "hostile parties" prevent so much stuff from being released that the release ends up being useless. We won't know that until the release actually happens.

      And that's all I'm saying: until the release actually happens, we won't know what will be released and what it will do. But you want people to throw caution into the wind and pretend that a mere announcement of something that may happen partially some time next year is the same as a legally binding commitment. Say, if Microsoft did something like that, would you trust them? I wouldn't. So, why should I trust Sun any more?

  19. No longer Java TWO SE by gumpish · · Score: 2, Informative
    But if you go to the J2SE Download page: http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index.jsp/ There is a link to Java 6.


    Please note that it is no longer "J2SE", it's just Java SE. (As per the URL you pasted in your post.)

    Sadly the marketroids still insist on calling it Java SE 6 and not Java SE 1.6 (which it is), but at least today we're better off than with Tiger, which was Java 2 SE 5 (aka 1.5)
    1. Re:No longer Java TWO SE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its probably gonna take some of us a very long time to drop the J2SE for Java SE. :-p

  20. Is JBoss compatible with it? by Lucas.Langa · · Score: 1

    Is it?

    --
    Build a tool even an idiot can use and only an idiot will want to use it. -S.O.B.
    1. Re:Is JBoss compatible with it? by jonabbey · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm sure that it is. Java's backwards compatibility has always been pretty spectacular. They've got millions of lines of unit-test code that they test new releases against, in addition to major applications which get explicit testing. JBoss is about as major an application as you'll find.

      --
      - jon

      Ganymede, a GPL'ed metadirectory for UNIX
    2. Re:Is JBoss compatible with it? by wzzzzrd · · Score: 1

      It is, I'm using the JDK6 (beta) for development and JRE5 for deployment on the production machine together with JBoss4, meaning that even code compiled with JDK6 runs fine in a JRE5 VM.

      --
      On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.
    3. Re:Is JBoss compatible with it? by Vintermann · · Score: 1

      Now I don't use Java in an enterprise environment, so I can't really compare, but it seems to me that backward compatibility is one area where Java shines against .net/C#

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
  21. Good release, but real fun stuff in Java 7 by caseih · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Java 6 has made great strides in many areas, including speed, Swing LAF, etc. It now uses GTK theme engines (works with all themes) to allow swing apps to look more like GTK apps. The imitation is still very imperfect, but it's much improved over the old, crappy, Metal look. I believe generics have been improved some in 6, and I think, if I recall correctly, 6 marks the beginning of non-backwards compatible changes to the JVM itself to pave the way for a lot of exciting new features in Java 7, the most notable will the inclusion (finally) of delegates, making GUI event programming a lot cleaner. It's possible that with Java 7 finally on feature parity with .NET, someone could write a .NET to JVM translator, such as the reverse of ikvm, to allow C# code to be executed on a clean, GPLd Java stack. I still prefer C# to Java at this point, and it would be nice to have the difference between the two stacks (technologically anyway) be insignificant, hopefully helping developers who would choose .NET choose the now safer Java alternative. .NET really did get a jump on Java technologically up until now. It's better in several ways including the generics model, delegates, and being able to support a number of languages including python (jpython for JVM seems to be stalled). Java 7 will start to change all that. Sun's really proved they are listening to the community. Either that or .NET really got them scared.

  22. Dynamic language support ? by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

    If I can run a dialect of Lisp with all the speed of the JVM, then I'm sold.

    --
    We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
    1. Re:Dynamic language support ? by curunir · · Score: 1

      If all you want is to run LISP with Java's speed, JDK 1.6 doesn't really change anything for you. There have been LISP implemntations (here are a couple of options) for some time now.

      What JSR-223 means is that it's now possible to integrate scripting languages into Java programs without having to use a project-specific API. As far as I can tell, the only LISP(ish) implementation that supports JSR-223 is SISC. This means that you can write your Java in such a way that you can very simply switch scripting language or framework without much modification to your Java code. It also means there is a standard way for scripting languages to interact with a running Java program. This is nice for anyone who wants to write a hybrid application where some parts naturally lend themselves to being implemented in Java and some parts don't.

      --
      "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
    2. Re:Dynamic language support ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the ease of developing in LISP, with all the speed of Java. What's not to like... sign me up immediately!

    3. Re:Dynamic language support ? by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

      Then I'm not sold.

      I remember about SISC, the pool of stack frames and all. Impressive indeed, very nice ideas there. But nothing specific to complete dynamic languages in the JVM, AFAIK it adds dynamic classes, but everything is NOT a class in a real program.

      --
      We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
  23. OpenGL rendering by Laz10 · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you have an OpenGL capable gfx card you should enable the OpenGL rending pipe for your Swing applications with this

    java -Dsun.java2d.opengl=true *javaprogram*

    It is disabled by default for compatability reasons, but all java programs should really make two launchers so users can choose.

    The OpenGL path should be a lot faster now, since it has been refactored to use only a single thread to ship commands to the gfx card, which is the same technique that most 3d games uses.

    It should be noticable.

    1. Re:OpenGL rendering by chrish · · Score: 1

      Is there any way to enable this globally (say, on XP or Mac OS X; I assume the OS X version of Java 1.6 isn't out yet) without hacking up a launch script for every Java app I use? This is right up there with having to tell the VM how much memory to use... like ancient DOS or Mac OS.

      --
      - chrish
    2. Re:OpenGL rendering by Laz10 · · Score: 1

      Good question ... I just googled it and couldn't find an answer

      The only way I can think of is to make a small hack (for linux):

      # mv /usr/bin/java /usr/bin/javabin
      # vi /usr/bin/java
      #!/bin/sh /usr/bin/javabin -Dsun.java2d.opengl=true $*

      # chmod 755 /usr/bin/java

      -- but hardly a satisfactory way to fix it .. there must be a better way.

      The developers really should provide different launchers.

  24. Major speedup for FP-math intensive apps. by Thorgal · · Score: 2, Informative
    What I don't see mentioned here is a significant performance improvement that is especially pronounced in FP-math intensive code. Take a look at some of the timings obtained with JatMark benchmark - typically it finishes in half the time (results in seconds):
    • 206 - Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.4GHz)/DDR2@667Mhz/Linux 2.6.18.3 #5 SMP/Sun JDK 1.6.0-rc-b104
    • 223 - Opteron 275 2.2GHz/Linux 2.6.11.12-grsec/Sun JDK 1.6.0-beta-b59g
    • 349 - Pentium M 730 (1.6Ghz)/DDR2@400Mhz/Linux 2.6.15-cK1/Sun JDK 1.6.0-beta-b59g
    • 401 - Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.4GHz)/DDR2@667Mhz/Linux 2.6.18.3 #5 SMP/Sun JDK 1.5.0_05-b05
    • 408 - Opteron 275 2.2GHz/Linux 2.6.11.12-grsec/Sun JDK 1.5.0_01-b08
    • 415 - Opteron 250 2.4GHz (dual)/Linux 2.6.8/Sun JDK 1.5.0-b63
    • 596 - Pentium M 730 (1.6Ghz)/DDR2@400Mhz/Linux 2.6.15-cK1/Sun JDK 1.5.0_06-b05
    Full results table.
    --
    "Man in the Moon and other weird things" - wfmh.org.pl/thorgal/Moon/
  25. .NET vs Java by Shados · · Score: 1

    No no, not a flame at one being better than the other.

    Just pointing out...since Java came out and Microsoft was kicked out of the field, having to come up with its own "copy", things have gotten quite interesting for developers...

    You have Java and .NET fighting it out, seeing which can pump out the most solid platform, and it just improves on both side at lightning speed... we had .NET 3.0 recently (Workflow foundation ::DROOLS::) and now this. Its great!

    At the same time, the other languages are also forced to evolve to keep up, giving us little gems like Rails.

    I am a happy camper.

  26. No Front Page? by Lord+Kestrel · · Score: 1

    Why didn't this make the front page? It's certainly a far more interesting thing for nerds than an article about bloggers.

    1. Re:No Front Page? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why didn't this make the front page? It's certainly a far more interesting thing for nerds than an article about bloggers. In fairness not all nerds are programmers. But yes I agree.
  27. I guess it makes me a true nerd when I can say by the_REAL_sam · · Score: 1

    "I noticed it last night, before it got slashdotted."

    Its the first time I've truly scooped slashdot! Woohoo!

    Well the online api doc's kept pointing to version 6 while I was looking for version 5.

    =)

    --
    "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
  28. Headfirst books by Marcus+Green · · Score: 1

    I trained as a teacher and the Headfirst books use an approach that is designed about how most people learn, not simply to deliver information. They ran a risky course with the chance that people might find the illustrations distracting rather than educational. But it works for most people

  29. Disappointment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have just downloaded and installed the JDK 1.6.0.
    I was looking forward this new release. But I am very disappointed.

    Quick remarks.
    Swing GTK theme looks a way better now. But it is unusable for me. Too slow. really, if you have to wait 1+ secs for a tab to change, no thanks.
    The default laf is unfortunatelly still the Ocean theme. Ok, it looks better now. maybe I am going to like it.
    The biggest disappointment for me was the performance degradation. the responsivness of applications that use pluggable laf has significantly degraded.
    For instance the JDeveloper IDE. (Jdev uses it's own laf, which is very cool IMHO) if I maximize it, it is being repainted too long. the
    scrollbar moving is offending me. it is not smooth and you cannot just normally move scrollbar from the top to the bottom, without those annoying stops. etc
    It has worked ok for me under Java 5. I don't know, maybe it is just a bug or something.
    I don't want to criticize the new Mustang realese as a whole, maybe there are really cool things. the the first impression for me as a linux user is
    poor.

    sorry

    I am running OpenSuse Linux with 1GB memory and 2+ Ghz processor.

  30. GTK+ is the problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If there's one toolkit that's consistently slower than Swing, it's GTK+. The GTK+ architecture is a mess, with them trying to implement a complete object layer in C. Sure, it can be done, but the end result is shitty (as we see with GTK+).

    Worse still, the C compiler just doesn't have the knowledge about potential optimizations that can be used when dealing with object-oriented-style features. True C++ compilers, on the other hand, can be developed taking directly into account optimizations that can be used in such situations. And the end result is that the assembly or machine code emitted by a C++ compiler is often far better than that from a C compiler when an object-oriented architecture is used.

    While licensing factors likely prevent it from ever happening, were SWT built upon Qt, we'd likely see Java applications that are far more responsive, and consume less memory. Just as KDE applications are far more efficient than their GTK+-based equivalents, Qt-based Java applications would be able to take advantage of the better codebase Qt offers, as well as the speed benefits from better and more compiler optimizations.

  31. JSR 269 by andy_fish · · Score: 1

    Another feature that Java 6 has doesn't seem to be getting any attention is JSR 269 (Pluggable Annotation Processing). I'm kind of excited to try it out.

    The idea with JSR 269 (as I understand it).. you create a few classes that are specifically recognized as annotation processing classes. Run javac as usual. Javac starts out and looks for classes like these. If it finds any, it will run them on your remaining source code files. The logic you define in your annotation processors can access the source code and do pretty much anything with it.

    As a very simple example, you could create an annotation @HasGettersAndSetters, and create a corresponding processor that automatically creates get..() and set..() methods for any class that you stick the annotation on.

    There are existing libraries out there (Spoon), but the cool part about this is that it's all built-in to javac.

    --
    & I wish I knew the password to your heart . . . &