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Vista vs. Cairo - A Microsoft History Lesson

avocade writes "Here is a nice history lesson by (the unfortunately infamous) Daniel Eran, arguing why the Longhorn/Vista road is very similar to the NT/Cairo road that Microsoft took in the 90's, effectively trying their best to discourage competition in the marketplace."

12 of 194 comments (clear)

  1. I discourage competition all the time... by dada21 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's part of competing -- to give your customers EVERY reason to pick you over someone else. Any good business does it by:

    1. Providing a product that meets the current needs of their customers.
    2. Providing a path to new features/efficiencies for their customers' futures.
    3. Working with third parties to offer incentives to provide your product solely.
    4. Providing a proven ROI for a short-term and long-term focus.

    Microsoft, to me, is not a monopoly -- except when the State is involved (providing patents and copyrights and trademarks). I'm against those monopoly provisions, but those are "legal" ones. Without them, Microsoft's power over competitors would be equalized. You can't blame Microsoft for taking advantage of what you, the voters, allowed them to utilize. The judgements against them calling them a monopoly are only there because you, the voters, let those policies become standard based on Microsoft's given legal priviledge over competition. Nothing prevents competition from doing what Microsoft does -- except than the competition would rather use THEIR monkeys in government to try to stem Microsoft's growth.

    As we see in the relatively free and unencumbered market of the web, Microsoft doesn't have any sort of monopoly -- people are free to choose what they want, and they do. In fact, the long tail effect shows that many products openly compete with Microsoft -- both legally obtained products and illegally obtained ones.

    The whole Vista issue is a non-issue. Everyone who cries foul against Microsoft refuses to see that the products they prefer just don't meet the top 4 items I listed -- in fact, some of them fail most or all of them. No one will invest in a product, even a free one, if it doesn't offer those items. Many Microsoft products do -- but not all of them. Vista will succeed only because consultants will like its standardization, manufacturers will like knowing there is a standard interface for their hardware/software to run on, and resellers will like it because it has always worked well enough for both the casual and the power user.

    Who cares about it looking like past products? If it worked for Microsoft in the past, why wouldn't they follow through with similar performances -- and making new ones to try to produce a better selling product?

  2. Re:Infamous indeed - spammer by cpct0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hmm, I don't want to sound any less stupid than I really am, but other than people using some signature on their Usenet mails, anyone can really make themselves appear to be anyone else on Usenet don't they? I've known these kinds in *cough* less respectable places, where they would get annoyed by the group, then suddenly prove they got no life and spam the heck out of the place with semi-plausible stuff, named against the member that pissed them off or simply ripping out the place.

    Not making an apology, just saying it's a possibility. Then I haven't followed the drama there, so can't tell. I find his articles well written, with an obvious agenda, and repeatingly hitting the nail until we're tired of hearing about that point of view in long rants on nearly the same topic. Interesting point of view. I just wonder what that guy does because he surely got a lot of spare time since ... well ... forever ;)

  3. This article is barely coherent by defile · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Factual errors aside, I think he's trying to say:

    Microsoft announced it had big things in development, didn't quite release all of the things they announced. This is fraud. Microsoft bad. They did it on purpose, by design. We're onto you guys, you won't fool us with Vista!

    He references The Mythical Man-Month as if this would give him some kind of software development street cred. I don't buy it, mainly because he doesn't seem to have ever been involved with any software development project.

    Many software projects start with ambitious and optimistic sets of features. And by many, I mean all. The bigger the project, the more ambitious the scope. "Yeah! Our next generation Operating System is going to have an OBJECT FILE SYSTEM and DISTRIBUTED COMPONENTS and JUST IN TIME COMPILATION and ADAPTIVE HEALING and ADVANCED AI COMMAND INTERFACE and VOICE RECOGNITION. The future is NOW! We're awesome!" Developers believe the hype and do a lot to generate it. And if they believe it, and they're implementing the fucking thing, what chance do marketers have of looking at it critically? None. So they tow the line.

    Result? The ambitious wildly impractical story is impossible to keep quiet. Sure, you can certainly fault companies for announcing features well before they're release candidate quality, but ambitious features getting cut because project deadlines are slipping happens all the time. Aside from the bad press that's generated from missing your release date, and the investment you blew developing features which don't get commercialized, there aren't many other downsides. If you can afford it, who cares?

    I can totally imagine cutting these features if I were the project manager and we missed our release date; the decision process would go something like this: what is the most expensive feature we're developing right now that has the lowest return on investment that if we cut, would allow us to release much earlier? "Object filesystem" probably makes the top of everyone's list. It gets cut it in a heartbeat. What, was marketing hyping the shit out of it this whole time? I hadn't noticed, because I haven't left my cubicle in 36 months. Tough it out, marketing clowns.

  4. Ok, I'll bite. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What did Windows 95 actually add? The only thing I can think of is Win32, but really, even Microsoft seems to be admitting this isn't a lot -- they are giving away free upgrades to XP 64-bit to anyone with a legit 32-bit copy of XP Pro.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    1. Re:Ok, I'll bite. by johnw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What did Windows 95 actually add? W95 actually followed on from W3.1 rather than W3.0. The main feature which it added (and the thing which drove Microsoft to release it) was incompatibility with OS/2. Because IBM had licensed access to the W3.1 source they were able to achieve first-rate compatibility for OS/2 running W3.1 programs, plus much better stability, multi-tasking etc. A crashing W3.1 program running on OS/2 simply took itself out rather than the whole system. Microsoft saw themselves potentially losing market share in a big way, so rushed W95 out.

      This has always been the way with Microsoft. They'll happily deny there's anything wrong with a product, no matter how much evidence exists that there is. The *only* thing that will move them to act is the prospect of losing market share to a better product.
    2. Re:Ok, I'll bite. by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Win16 to Win32 was a huge deal. Though Win32 retained a large number of 32 bit versions of 16 bit API's that allowed developers to (largely) just recompile their apps with only about 10% or less work, there was also a significant number of new API's... more actually, than the Win16 API's.

      Win64, however, is largely just extending the Win32 API's to 64 bits and adding a few new memory management API's. So the two transitions can't really be compared.

  5. Re:Damn, that was crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Are you kidding? Windows 3.x was essentially a DOS extender and was probably the most unstable, widely sold operating system of all time. Even Microsofties heaped scorn upon it afterwards. It was based on cooperative MT, not preemptive MT. Critical GUI resources were limited to 64K on a systemwide basis. Many users were force to reboot several times a day because of an "Unrecoverable Application Error". Interprocess communication and component integration relied on a succession of convoluted "technologies" (really just hacks): DDE, OLE1, and OLE2 Compound Documents. Microsoft had a huge edge over its rivals in application software because it knew the quirks of its own OS better than anyone else, and BEFORE anyone else, so they could workaround problems and take advantage of more robust and performant paths in the API.

    Windows 95 was a major improvement, but was still a far cry from a robust operating system. (The Mac was no better in terms of stability, although it had a much more useable UI). Yes, there was Windows NT, but that was marketed to corporations and wasn't backwardly compatible with DOS applications. Stable, widely adopted consumer OS's didn't appear until after 2000, when Microsoft released Windows XP and Apple came out with OS X.

  6. Bull... Once more for those who skipped class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Being a monopoly is NOT illegal. It is leveraging the monopoly in an anti-competitive manner that is illegal.

    Items 1, 2 and 4 on your list are just good business sense. Monopoly or not.

    But "3. Working with third parties to offer incentives to provide your product solely." is illegal. If you leave off the word "solely" its ok, but when your "incentives" come off like strong-arm bullying, and the "solely" provision is the primary objective, that is anti-competitive. That is also what Microsoft was (repeatedly) found guilty of.

    And from what I've seen and heard of Vista, application of the other three items is questionable.

    1. Re:Bull... Once more for those who skipped class by DECS · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually exclusive deals are not illegal, and maintaining a monopoly often is.

      Try googling news for "exclusive deal," and tell me how many of those are illegal. There are lots of examples of exclusive business deals.

      However, while monopolies are allowed in specific areas where it is determined that competition would create more problems that it would solve, the existance of legal monopolies (for cable, power utilitites, water) generally overlap into areas often supplied by the government (municipal transportation, power, water), not competitive industries.

      In competitive industires, monopolies are generally illegal. When Lowes Theaters bought AMC Theaters, it was forced by the state of California to divest itself of certain theaters so that it wouldn't own the majority of outlets in certain markets. That happened despite the fact that AMC/Lowes didn't even own all the theaters and had significant competition.

      Microsoft's monopoly in operating systems was defined as a monopoly in the court, and found to be abusive in the narrow portion of evidence that was actually considered. Significant efforts were presented to solve that illegal monopoly and abuseive use, but then the current administration swung into power and dismissed any and all action.

      So no, despite the rule of law being uninforced in America, monopolies are not generally "legal" just because an anonymous coward says they are. That's a myth. The US has a long history of breaking up monopolies and companies that exercise undo influence over markets. In other countries, including Europe and Asia, monoploy control is more common and not always illegal. Massive conglomerations are typical in Japan and Germany, but were always frowned upon in the US, back when the rule of law was enforced.

      Illegal monopolies are not legal any more than illegal wars are legal. Just because something is allowed by a kowtowed populace and an uncritical press does not mean that the law does not exist or that it will never be enforced. Just wait until the red states have a moment to consider how much money they have lost! Once that happens, the US is sure to have a revolution of sorts and elect an administration more interested in enforcing the laws than in distractions of jews, flag burning, gay marrage & all the problems caused by minories.

    2. Re:Bull... Once more for those who skipped class by GaryPatterson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "So no, despite the rule of law being uninforced in America, monopolies are not generally "legal" just because an anonymous coward says they are. That's a myth. The US has a long history of breaking up monopolies and companies that exercise undo influence over markets. In other countries, including Europe and Asia, monoploy control is more common and not always illegal. Massive conglomerations are typical in Japan and Germany, but were always frowned upon in the US, back when the rule of law was enforced."

      Daniel, I'm generally a fan of your site but you're going off-base with this bit.

      The US gov't only breaks up monopolies that start exerting undue influence because at that point a company crosses the line from benign or natural monopoly (eg power station to a region) to a monopoly that's misusing its power to tie products (eg Windows + IE) or force anti-competitive practices (eg Microsoft + forced Windows licencing on new PCs).

      A monopoly in and of itself isn't bad or strange. They *are* generally legal, until they start breaking the law. Governments across the world will allow a monopoly quite happily for as long as the company acts within the law.

      Massive conglomerations aren't frowned upon in the US any more that the rest of the world, and many of the largest have their home in the US (such as GE). They're not at all bad, until they start breaking local laws.

    3. Re:Bull... Once more for those who skipped class by DECS · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm glad you like my site.

      However, as in the example I gave, antitrust policy is the way the US works. GE, GM, and General Mills might be big companies, but they are not conglomerates on the scale of German and Japanese companies, where mega umbrella companies enter and control multiple markets. As a sloppy example, Mitsubishi does everything from banking to heavy industry, oil, real estate, steel, cars, ag, beer, logistics, insurance, and it even cans tuna.

      No American groups can do that because of different economic policies on competition. In the US, there are laws preventing companies from dominating industries and distorting competition, let alone owning multiple industries. The US similarly has had far less support for nationalized utilities.

      The US government always investigates mergers and acquisitions to make sure that comeptition won't be distorted as companies converge. Back when Aldus and Adobe became Adobe, the company had to divest itself of Aldus Freehand (because it also had Adobe Illustrator); It sold it off to Macromedia.

      Things have changed. When Adobe bought Macromedia, it stripped the software world of far more competition, but no action was taken. Adobe didn't have to get rid of Macromedia Freehand for Adobe Illustrator this time around, nor did it have to allow Dreamweaver and GoLive to remain in competition, and any of a number of other examples. The difference is a change in politics and economic thought.

      Despite that shift, monopolies are only allowed where competition is unlikely to benefit consumers. Newspapers in a city are often allowed to join in non-competitive joint contracts to fix prices on advertising, keeping ad prices artificially high in order for newspapers to cheat off obsolescence. But that doesn't mean its legal for gas stations to collude on price fixing too.

      Making blanked statements that "monopolies are legal as long as they're not hurting anyone" is similarly misinformed, particularly under the rather arrogant title "Bull... Once more for those who skipped class," so I had to jump on it.

      I'm a sucker for arguing against anonymous cowards I guess.

      Why Microsoft Can't Compete With iTunes

  7. Re:Infamous indeed - spammer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Calling RoughlyDrafted a spammer is ridiculous.

    The dude writes a blog and submits articles to Digg and other sites, and plenty of other people submit his articles because he's a great writer, even if you can't agree with every idea he has. He writes about topics other news sites skirt and avoid. He also presents an interesting historical viewpoint based on working in tech for a long time.

    Read comments on his site, and its the ignorant 15 year old Xbox fanboys who attack him, while the aged veterans of the tech say he gets everything right. Lots of sources, refers to other writers, and is sometimes very funny. Sometimes over the top, but he is worthy to read.

    As a webhost, I know he's not making anything significant with a few iTunes ads and some Amazon links on the side. Every website from CNET to Digg has far more ads all over, let along the Mac related news/trivia/rumors websites.

    It says something that you bring out the big guns of "spammer conspiracy" ... did he write an unflattering article about you or your pet company at some point?