EBay's Bid To Go Beyond Auctions Disappoints

Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "eBay is having trouble attracting online shoppers with its new fixed-price sales site, the Wall Street Journal reports. From the article: 'Jonathan Garriss, executive director of the Professional eBay Sellers Alliance, an independent group of eBay sellers, estimates eBay Express accounts for less than 1% of sales for the group's more than 1,000 members, who together sell more than $1 billion a year in merchandise. And while eBay's main auction site attracted more consumer visits than any other online retailer in November, eBay Express was at No. 87 on the list of top shopping and classified sites, according to research firm Hitwise Pty. Ltd.'"

Comments

What was the point?

[Thansal]

I never did get why eBay express was instituted.

If you want to sell an item at a specific cost, just put in a buy it now option. I admit, I don't use eBay, but couldn't you just place the buy it now and reserve at the same point?

Re:What was the point?

[drewzhrodague]

I use the buy-it-now button when I am picking up something cheap, like wifi pigtails and such. It is far easier than fighting for a couple of days over a few cents on a $5 item. I didn't hear about this expres function. Isn't that a duplication of function?

Re:What was the point?

[dgatwood]

You could, but people would think you were a complete jerk. You should just do a fixed-price auction. That's what they're for. This, however, appears to be targeted towards eBay stores. As such, prices seem comparable with eBay stores, i.e. not very good. And as someone else mentioned, this hasn't been advertised well at all.

One of the biggest reasons I wouldn't shop here, however, is paranoia. I don't trust eBay merchants when it comes to large purchases. I haven't been burned, but I've gotten close enough to make me uncomfortable. I'd rather deal with a known brick-and-mortar store. If the seller has spent real money setting up a web storefront, they're less likely to turn out to be some child selling stolen goods....

For anything over about $100, I get nervous buying on eBay, and over about $300, I won't touch it. For products under that $300 limit, an eBay merchant has to undercut the best price from a real merchant by at least 15-20% for it to be worth the added risk of buying it from a zero-initial-cost merchant. Since that almost never happens, I almost never buy from eBay merchants. A quick perusal of the eBay express pro microphone category showed Froogle beating their prices on everything but the Peluso, and the eBay Express price was only $4 less on a $1600 mic. A quarter of a percent price difference is inconsequential when weight against my peace of mind.

I buy from auctions a lot more often than from eBay stores because I'm much more likely to actually come out ahead. That said, if an auction isn't at least 30% off Froogle, I won't touch it. With an auction, you have the added risk of having to trust the seller to accurately represent the condition of the product, and I build that added risk into the purchase price that I'm willing to pay.

The combination of those factors is, IMHO, the reason that frugal buyers have largely ignored eBay Express. It's the same products at the same prices as everybody else (plus or minus a tiny percentage), but from eBay---a free seller storefront that has a reputation for representing shady sellers and a history of not recouping people's losses when transactions go wrong. Buying online is all about trust, and eBay doesn't have mine.

Re:What was the point?

[Grishnakh]

I use Ebay frequently, but almost always for used and obscure items. I too do not see the point in buying brand-new items there; the auctions usually end at higher prices than I could get it from Amazon or Newegg for, and the sellers always gouge on shipping.

However, for some of the items I purchase, Ebay has been a boon, although I really wish Google would make its own auction site to compete with them, because I hate their high fees, and Paypal's high fees and terrible reputation.

For instance, I recently bought a used iRiver H320 digital audio player which I've been very happy with. It needs a new battery (which I can get for $20 from newertech), but considering how little I paid for the player that's not a problem.

I've also bought and sold some old (20-30 years) electronics test equipment on Ebay, such as Tektronix 400-series oscilloscopes and old function generators and power supplies. Items like this can be found easily for under $150 (and around $50 for the power supplies), and are great for hobbyist-level electronics projects. Furthermore, they're rugged and dependable, even at 25 years old, and simple to fix by someone with a little electronics knowledge when they do fail (usually the problem is a bad electrolytic capacitor; electrolytics have a finite lifetime unlike most other components).

I've also bought and sold various auto parts.

For items where you're specifically looking for used/discontinued/obscure items, ebay is wonderful (aside from its horrible fees, shipping price gouging, etc.), because it gives buyers and sellers a way to meet that they just can't otherwise. Before the internet and ebay, if you wanted to buy, for instance, a 1935-model Weston voltmeter (something I bought a while ago for a little project), you'd have to hope to find one in an antique store somewhere, maybe. Good luck with that. But I see them all the time on ebay, and they're dirt cheap. Want a 1975-model oscilloscope? You can buy them from test equipment dealers for very high prices, but good luck finding someone with one in serviceable shape, maybe needing a few bulbs replaced, for less than $100. Looking for a 60V power supply, and you don't mind if it's dead because you intend to fix it in your spare time and just want it cheap (like $10)? There's no store for that kind of thing. Need a seat bracket for your car? Have fun calling all the junkyards for it. With ebay, all these things are easily available from all over the country, and depending on demand, usually quite cheap. Want to sell some old junk? You could waste your Saturday setting up a garage sale, and getting $0.25 for each item (if anyone even wants it), or you can sell it on Ebay to a collector in Maine for far more because he's bidding against some guy in Wyoming. None of this was possible before Ebay came along.

Ebay was really great back in the late 90s because of all this. Lately, however, it's been turning to crap. The main problem I see is that they're a publicly-traded company (which I generally hate), and as such, seek to continue "deliver more shareholder value" by constantly expanding. Of course, you're only going to make so much money by being a venue for buyers and sellers of used and obscure low-cost items. So it seems they cater far too much to the high-volume sellers who inexplicably sell brand-new stuff for just as much as Newegg.com. However, I think this is eventually going to fail as people slowly but surely wise up to this idiocy. But this seems to be making the site not as good for the small-time sellers who are also frequent buyers, such as myself. It also makes it harder to find what you want because it gets "lost in the noise" of all the brand-new crap. The second problem is all the sellers who have low starting bids but pad their profit margin by charging ridiculous shipping charges. This adds up to turning people off of ebay altogether. Finally, the other big problem is the high (and increasing) fees that Ebay/Paypal charge for their services. By charging too

Advertising?

[tonsofpcs]

Ever think it may be because of advertising? This is the first time I'm hearing of eBay Express.

Re:Advertising?

[dgatwood]

This is advertising.

Express = Bad buy-it-now

[Salvance]

eBay works because people are always looking for fantastic deals, and the auction format provides a sense of urgency. eBay express is really only a buy-it-now subsection of eBay, except the products don't have an expiration date, and aren't displayed prominently in searches.

Search seems like the express product's major downfall. Most eBay users don't want to shop by store, they want to shop by product (and typically via a search). eBay express only comes up at the very bottom of main eBay searches, or if nothing was found during the search. Sometimes eBay express items also come up as "related items" when clicking on an auction item. But this really isn't going to drive significant traffic ... it's seems more like an afterthought.

Also, for some reason the express site seems SLOOOOWWW. It took about 1 minute for the main page to come up just now (from 2 different locations on 2 different networks), ugh.

What, no best offer?

[Channard]

Even with fixed price auctions on normal E-Bay, the seller has the option of offering a 'best offer' feature so you can try and wangle the price down. It looks like even that feature's been omitted from this site - so why the hell not buy using froogle.com which actively lets you search for best prices? This is just a stupid idea.

Re:But they are having no trouble...

[stile99]

But that's just false. Well, not the siding with the seller thing. I won't bother relating my story because it is exactly the same story as so many others post daily all over the net. Actually, technically speaking, the eBay makes their money from the sellers thing isn't false either, it just isn't the full story.

When eBay screws the buyer, that buyer doesn't return. That's where the sellers make THEIR money, so you'd think eBay wouldn't be so casual about pissing on the buyers. This whole "you have the whole internet as your target market" is nothing short of fraud (which considering the people they associate with, it isn't surprising coming from eBay). They are now using the same fake numbers AOL used to toss around. You don't have X million customers, you've given out X million free discs. You don't really have Y customers either, you've got Y minus Z% who have tried to cancel and you just won't let go.

Now eBay is using the same accounting math. "We have X registered users, therefore your customer base is X!" No...you have X registered users...a large percentage (and growing daily) of which no longer would 'shop' on your site if someone else were paying the bill.

Which incidentally...you DO have a large percentage (and growing daily) of people who ARE shopping with someone else footing the bill.

I trust the guy in the alley more than I trust eBay. Bolex watch anyone? Sure, I know I'm not really getting a Rolex, but at least the alley guy gives me SOMETHING, which is more than I can say for you.

Re:eBay doesn't get it

[dgatwood]

yet, eBay is FLOODED with goods and sellers The marketplace is so diluted on eBay now that it's very difficult for sellers to make money anymore.

I disagree. It's only difficult to make money if you bought the product on eBay. I still regularly see computer parts selling on eBay for more than the lowest Pricewatch price. In fact, if it weren't for listing fees, if you really wanted to play the system, you could set a reserve price for an auction that's the same as the Pricewatch price and wait for the item to sell, then buy it from the cheapest Pricewatch merchant and have it delivered to the highest bidder. You wouldn't make a lot of money, but on the average over a large number of transactions, I'm pretty sure you'd be in the green even if all you do is buy at market price and sell to suckers on eBay.

If you work a deal to buy the products at wholesale, you can make good money off eBay. I'm always amazed at how much more products cost on eBay than through other mechanisms. I'm even more amazed at eBay sellers that sell for more than the best prices on Froogle or other search sites. The shocking thing, though, is that people actually buy this stuff at those higher prices.... Apparently, there are still plenty of suckers out there.

Inevitable...

[crossmr]

Ebay's glory days are long since passed. There came a point where they went from being the cool little niche pseudo-yardsale, to being some clearing house for every piece of crap some wholesaler from hong kong can get a hold of.

They do everything they can to screw the buyer, and are surprised when a new initiative fails? Issues I've spotted, reported and gotten bullshit form letters in response to:
1)Sellers charging too much for shipping - They give an example of someone charging $20 to ship a DVD as bad. I found someone charging $60 to ship a USB Thumb drive via the slowest cheapest USPS method possible.
2)Sellers setting their "handling" fee as a percentage of final sale - I found a fellow who'd listed all his auctions stating that the handling fee was 4% of the final sale price or something of that nature.
3)Keyword spamming - How many times have you seen an item listed as: DLink NOT Linksys
4)Misrepresenting items - A linksys befsr41 is not a modem. Funny how that descriptor appeared only in the title and nowhere in the description.
5)Listed multiple entries for the same item - I once came across a seller who had about 30 of the identical item, carbon copy listings, all listed at once all ending at the same time. Their ToS either limits to 5 or 10.

These are just some of the things that I've seen in violation of the ToS, but all from "powersellers". Each time I get a bullshit form letter about how they trust their sellers to do the right thing.

I've also seen numerous examples of abuse of the feedback system. "Powersellers" hold it hostage until you leave yours to ensure they can retaliate if they mess up. I've seen constant entries like this:
Buyer leaves: "Item took 3 months to be delivered from 1 state over. Item was broken, not even the the right item and I think the seller urinated on it before sending it. Seller doesn't respond to e-mails."
Seller leaves in response: "Bad ebayer stay away!!!!!!!11!!!omg."

Ebay was supposed to be a buyers market, but its turned into a wholesalers market where they rule the roost. More and more people are realizing that and when a solid replacement comes along I think you'll see it pick up quite a bit. Hopefully it won't fall prey to the same issues Ebay did.