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Will Apple Follow Microsoft's Lead to Restrictive DRM?

Steve Ryan asks: "The direction Microsoft are taking with Windows (for example, the DRM issues in Vista) have led me to believe Windows will soon be an OS which controls the user, rather than the other way round. I like XP, and I find it stable, but I do not want to upgrade to an OS (Vista) which is restrictive. This leaves me with either Linux or Mac OS X. I like Linux, but it may not work with my laptop, so I don't really want to risk it. OS X seems nice. I spend most of my time writing documents and surfing the web, so it should handle everything I want, and I would be happy to buy a lovely MacBook Pro. This leaves me with my question: Will Apple follow Microsoft's lead and implement a DRM loving policy?"

15 of 326 comments (clear)

  1. Apple already loves DRM by Clockwurk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Every intel mac ships with a "trusted" computing module and apple uses DRM on every tune or movie they sell. You can't burn itunes tv shows to DVD, you can't transfer music from an ipod to a computer (easily), you can't transfer DRMd songs to any player but an ipod.

    Anyone that thinks Apple is better than Microsoft needs to take a history lesson. Apple acts exactly like microsoft, but is too small to be effective. Hell, the only reason we use PCs today and not macs is Steve Jobs wanted the whole computer pie and wouldn't settle for just controlling the operating system.

    1. Re:Apple already loves DRM by Baricom · · Score: 4, Insightful
      There are alternative explanations. The content industry wouldn't release anything to Apple without DRM protection, and the only way TPM has been used so far is to make sure OS X only runs on Apple hardware. I'm not giving them an out, but these behaviors seem benign, relatively speaking. Consider the alternative:
      • Make sure you don't misplace your product key, in case you need to reinstall later.
      • Cross your fingers when Microsoft phones home during activation to discover whether you're worthy of using Windows.
      • Cross your fingers again as Microsoft checks whether you're a criminal every time you download patches.
      • Cross your fingers yet again as you wonder whether end-of-life means your purchase will no longer activate.
      • Remember to opt out of Windows Media Player's helpful tendency to DRM-infect files from CDs you rip yourself.
      • Consider whether PlaysForSure or Zune DRM is more likely to be future-proof.
      I don't deny that Apple might behave this way given the majority market share, but I think they're a long way from reaching that. If the tables are turned in ten years, I'll just do what I did to the Republicans: switch to the better candidate, even if that means Microsoft.
  2. There's DRM and then there's DRM by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think this thread boils down to a single issue: Microsoft's "Genuine Advantage" program is threatening to remotely self-destruct people's computers. Apple isn't.

  3. Umm.... by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Interesting
    This leaves me with either Linux or Mac OS X. I like Linux, but it may not work with my laptop, so I don't really want to risk it.


    And OS X will? (Legally?)

    Anyway, Linux or BSD is guaranteed freedom while OS X you have to trust a company. It's that simple. We can analyze Apple all we want but in the end it is a company that can decide to turn one way or the other at any moment. Not so with your average Linux distro.

    Or play both sides and get a Mac and dual-boot. Keep your files in open or standard formats so you can easily move to other OSes.
  4. Not M$ by Zebra_X · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Apple has led, is leading and will continue to lead the DRM future. Intel is close behind because they created HDCP, the hardware level copying mechanism in use by HDCP compliant HDMI ports in current generation high-end monitors and televisions.

    Intel Macs now come with the beloved Trusted Computing module installed, and while most say that it is not used now, Apple is the only one deploying it widely to their user base. It will get used in the future.

    Apple is now, and will continue the move to a media platform. Such a move is going to require very tight control over the content that is deployed to the platform. The only way that Apple can assure content providers that their content is "safe" is by deploying draconian measures to be sure that we cannot really "own" the content that we "borrow" from the rights holders, be it movies, songs, TV shows or newspapers.

    Microsoft has less of interest in owning your content, sure they have to assure content providers that their content will not be used in improper ways - however their OS isn't targeted specifically to content creation and consumption. In reality, Microsoft can't really compete with Apple on completeness of media offering because they would be sued for anti-trust violations (and have).

    While Microsoft has incorporated HDCP support for high-def content, the drives to play this content for pc's still range in the 000's. You can be sure when Apple starts to ship macs with blue-ray drives that HDCP will become a requirement. You also won't notice that it's there because with exception for the macpro and mac mini there is little need for external displays.

    Interestingly, blue ray-discs may be encoded to play high def content via HDMI only at the studios discretion. Given that this capability exists today, Microsoft is not responsible for the movement to protect high def content.

    To be clear, MS is not leading this charge. It has been built into the blue-ray standard, the hardware connections, and boards of a wide range of devices. This is a ground up attack at our ability to move content around. The MPAA and RIAA figure if you make the hardware aware of the content, then you can police the content better. They might be right... only time will tell.

    If M$ does not deploy support for these standards then we will not have the ability to watch any of the content. The same will happen on OS X except that it will be less apparent due to the lack of HDCP compatibility issues across the most popular macs (MacBook, MacBook Pro). Apple will provide a better "user experience" because they control both the hardware and software that they sell to customers. Of course, Microsoft will look like the bad guy because they have little control over the hardware that ends up in consumers homes.

    1. Re:Not M$ by dangitman · · Score: 3, Informative

      Microsoft has less of interest in owning your content, sure they have to assure content providers that their content will not be used in improper ways - however their OS isn't targeted specifically to content creation and consumption.

      That's pretty delusional. Firstly, Microsoft runs a music store, and has been desperately trying to control media on the desktop with Windows Media Player and the Media Center edition of their OS. And their OS is geared towards consumption of products and content. Like Microsoft applications, and third-party applications and games.

      Microsoft doesn't just want to own your media - they want to oen your whole system and have the ability to shut your OS down remotely. Hell, Microsoft even tries to put DRM on your pre-existing content - for example, if you rip a CD with Windows Media Player. And their "PlaysforSure" DRM is way more restrictive than Apple's.

      Just because Microsoft hasn't been particularly successful with their plans, doesn't mean they aren't trying.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  5. A few mistakes in your post by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 4, Informative

    1) Apple DRM has nothing to do with moving music off an iPod. The music is stored in a hidden folder and can be copied off trivially.
    2) Apple DRMed songs can trivially (in iTunes) be burned to a CD, opening up to a world of CD players and DVD players. If you choose to re-encode again you can transfer to additional devices other than iPods.
    3) Apple has never acted like Microsoft. Microsoft has raised Windows license fees or withheld licenses from companies promoting or developing competing technologies (OS/2 and Netscape). The closest is when Apple withdrew licenses from clonemakers exactly because they did not want to only sell operating systems. Microsoft has also developed competitive technologies rather than endorsing existing solutions so they could extract more control (WMA instead of AAC, WMV instead of MPEG4, Direct3D instead of OpenGL, MTP instead of UMS, etc)

    Maybe your point (Apple is a corporation, not an entity) would be better made as, "Don't trust Apple to be good by you unless it also helps them as well".

  6. Wake up by spiritraveller · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Don't expect Apple or any other proprietary systems vendors to protect your freedom. They're not interested in your freedom.

    They are very interested in making and maintaining sweetheart deals with studios and record companies, so that they can be the middleman who sells the movies and music that those other companies put out.

    Only open systems can be expected to protect your freedom. Proprietary systems are by definition intended to take away your freedom to do as you wish with them. They are designed to remove your ability to modify them as you see fit. Your freedom is only guaranteed when source is available. Anything else is just a hope and a prayer.

  7. Apple already tolerates DRM by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Informative

    Every intel mac ships with a "trusted" computing module

    Theonly use of which is for OS X to recognize it is running on Apple hardware - it IS NOT USED to prevent you from running Linux or any other OS, or adding your own OS X drivers, as Microsoft had been talking about.

    and apple uses DRM on every tune or movie they sell.

    That you can easily remove - even the video you can simply re-record with any number of video screen capture software. This is mandated by content providers, not Apple - remember Apple is the one that brought DRM to this loose state. Microsoft is the one giving you protected video paths with Vista.

    You can't burn itunes tv shows to DVD

    You can if you simply copy it.

    you can't transfer music from an ipod to a computer (easily)

    Since iTunes recognizes ID3 tags it is childs play to copy a whole directory of music from any iPod you can mount into iTunes, and have the music all show up.

    you can't transfer DRMd songs to any player but an ipod.

    But you can also choose to move the songs to other formats that lack DRM and move them that way. There is an out.

    People like you have been blasting Apple for DRM use for years when in fact Apple is the company that is slowly backing studios out of DRM use. the MP3 sales trial recently on Yahoo would never have been done if Apple had not locked up the popular use of DRM with Apple instead of an indsutry controlled company such as Microsoft.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  8. Re:If you want a Mac so badly, just buy one alread by ceeam · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, starting with v6 Ubuntu live CDs and install CDs are the same one disk. Ubuntu installs from link icon on live CD's desktop. Very cool idea, actually.

  9. Re:Interesting fact-I'm tone deaf. by ericdano · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Of course, most of the POP stuff out there, like 90%+ of the stuff on iTunes, is so compressed when mastered that an MP3 of it really doesn't sound much different than the actual CD. All that Rap, and Maroon 5, Fray, etc.

    --
    It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
    I moderate therefore I rule!
    --
  10. Re:Does it really matter that much in reality? by Nightspirit · · Score: 4, Informative

    Contrary to what someone mentioned, no, WMP does not automatically add DRM if you select the mp3 option. Also try the ffdshow codec, it may allow you to play divx content within media center (as within vista I am currently viewing a divx video within windows media player).

    Contrary to all the FUD, the only DRM you have to worry about is on "next-gen" media, and it looks like until they put the analog protection flag up it can apparently be broken (if this article is correct).

    You can still rip all your mp3s or FLAC (with a supported player) off CDs and copy DVDs (with DVD shrink or similar programs). So I really don't see what all the fuss is about [yes, I would prefer no DRM, but at this point it is not very likely. For instance, you are unlikely to see a commercial HD-DVD/blu-ray player (that supports the copy protection flag) for linux, unless linux can provide some means of a protected path for content].

  11. Re:Laptop by stewbacca · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Don't blame linux or os x for being "broken" when "broken" really just means "different". This is generally more a problem with old geezers/technophobes, but also a problem with people who are used to Windows's way of doing things. It's been said by some that the people who have the hardest time switching are the "power users", because they have a lot of knowledge of "how to do *somewhat advanced thing*" that isn't the same across OSes. An example would be something like changing the screen resolution, or maybe a bit more advanced, setting up a printer; or adding/removing users.
    I had a Windows nerd friend help me last weekend install Win XP on my intel Mac, and I spent the first 30 minutes educating him that Macs can indeed to all that and more, just not the way he is used to. In nearly every case, the Mac way is simpler, and more elegant, once you drop the preconceived windows-way of doing things and figure out how to do it on a Mac. I hate it when people try to apply Windows logic to a Mac (no, there still isn't a registry, get over it). This is the #1 reason behind all the Linux/Macs suck comments: blatant ignorance.
  12. Macs have no TPM! by LKM · · Score: 3, Informative

    Geez, your post reads like you were just making it up as you went along, yet it got modded 5. Fascintaing.

    1. While some Intel Macs had TPM hardware, it was never used, not even for making sure Mac OS X ran on a Mac. More recent Macs don't even include it anymore (much to the chagrin of some people who actually did make use of it)
    2. Unlike Mac OS X, Linux does include drivers for TPM by default
    3. If Apple's DRM is so draconian, how come it's the most lenient out there?
    4. Nothing that Apple has ever done can't compare to what MS is doing. I mean, even remotely. It's not only not the same league, it's not even the same sports they're playing. Sorry, but MS very much is leading this charge.
  13. Re:Step Up by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful
    And what is wrong with iTunes? It has, by far, the fairest DRM.

    Pardon my bluntness, but that's really no different than asking what's wrong with lethal injection because it's, by far, the least painful method of execution. But regardless of the method you're still dead, just as regardless of the DRM, you're still restricted.

    You can always burn a CD, and re-import it.

    Wrong! You can burn a CD and re-import it until Apple decides you can't. And that mere possibility is more than enough to make it entirely unacceptable.

    Like you, I'm happy with my iMac. However, that does not mean I think Apple can do no wrong, and neither should it mean such for you.

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz