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Source Code Access Denied in Disputed Race

MrMetlHed writes "A judge ruled Friday that congressional aspirant Christine Jennings has no right to examine the source code that runs the electronic voting machines at the center of a disputed Southwest Florida congressional race. From the article: 'The ruling Friday from Judge Gary prevents for now the Jennings camp from being able to use the programming code to try to show voting machines used in Sarasota County malfunctioned. Jennings claims that an unusually large number of undervotes (ballots that didn't show a vote) recorded in the race implies the machines lost the votes.'"

9 of 310 comments (clear)

  1. Some thoughts by stikves · · Score: 1, Informative

    I think the machines will always be subject to much discussion until their source codes are approved by all the parties and the installation of the hardware is done in front of inspectors in all sites.

    But as it will not probably be done, we'll not see an end of unfairness claims.

  2. Re:Nothing tests code like the real world by DRJlaw · · Score: 5, Informative

    There's definitely something screwy going on. From the article, about 18000 votes were accepted that didn't actually vote for anything. Now, if I was designing an e-voting package, there's no way I'd mark a vote as accepted if it didn't vote for something, especially in a country like the US where voting is not mandatory. After all, if they've bothered to turn up at the voting booth, you can assume they actually intended to vote.

    You're misreading the article.

    "Some 18,000 Sarasota County electronic ballots did not register a vote in the race, a much higher undervote rate _ nearly 15 percent _ than in others such as those for governor or U.S. Senate. Jennings contends the machines lost the votes. Buchanan backers and the company say that if there was an unusually large undervote it was likely because of bad ballot design."

    There were 18,000 people who did not vote for either Jennings or Buchanan (or another option, if any). People routinely vote for "none of the above" when they dislike each of the candidates, when they have little information about the candidates, etc. You cannot refuse to accept the voter's selections once the voter has showed up at the polls and voted in even one race, because that may very well be the voter's intent. Arguably, you cannot refuse to accept a submission that contains no selections, because that too may be the voter's intent.

    You are at best arguing about the sufficiency of the selection review prior to a submission. There is not enough information in the article to discuss this information, and it does not support the candidate's allegations of fraud, so that it is essentially irrelevant to the legal case taking place after the election. You're free to argue against the ballot presentation selected/entered by the various Boards of Election, but you can hardly argue based solely on the undervote that this was a programming "feature" or design defect.

  3. 15% undervote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    15% of people who voted on the rest of the ticket, mysteriously didn't vote for their Congressman. Even funnier, it was very very strongly biased in favor of Democrat voters, 18% of people who voted Democrat on the remainder of the ticket didn't vote for a Congressman. Even stranger still, it was Florida the former seat of Katherine Harris, even stranger still other neighboring districts showed more typical errors of 3% or so with no political bias.

    Fix the vote, make it verifiable, even now when you think the last vote was fair, you don't know it was, nobody can show it was, and there's so much money and power at stake, the vote must be totally trusted.

    Florida has a Democrat voter majority, yet elects Republicans and it is more than gerrymandering.

  4. Re:Nothing tests code like the real world by theonetruekeebler · · Score: 4, Informative

    From the article, about 18000 votes were accepted that didn't actually vote for anything What the article actually said was:

    18,000 Sarasota County electronic ballots did not register a vote in the race (emphasis added) It further says this means about fifteen percent of the ballots cast did not have a selection in this race.

    The loser says this happened because the software went all wonky. The winner says it probably happened because of poor layout -- voters didn't even find the race, or they found and misunderstood the race, or they fat-fingered the ballot.

    The loser, of course, can't challenge on the misunderstood-ballot theory, because it implies that her support base is statistically more likely do do something stupid than her opponent's.

    That said, I find this ruling intolerable. When the government is formed by the counting of ballots, the method of the counting must be open and available. I think it was Boss Tweed who said it best: "As long as I get to count the votes, what are you going to do about it?"

    --
    This is not my sandwich.
  5. Re:Incomplete article by amaiman · · Score: 3, Informative

    No. Ability to check your own vote means that if you give the key to someone else, they can verify your vote as well, this will lead to people selling their votes.

  6. Re:Outrageous by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Informative
    Last time I checked, over pretty much any timescale there were more exploits found in Linux than in the Windows NT kernel. If you are going to compare all of Windows, then you need to include a set of comparable applications (e.g. X.org, FireFox, much of GNOME or KDE). Take a look at this page for all of the security holes found in third party applications available for OpenBSD since 4.0 was shipped a couple of months ago.

    Most 'Windows' exploits are exploits in bundled userland software. If you compare this to the number of exploits in software bundled with, say, Fedora Core, then the numbers don't look nearly so rosy.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  7. Bad Ballot Design by richwmn · · Score: 2, Informative

    From the article
    Buchanan backers and the company say that if there was an unusually large undervote it was likely because of bad ballot design.
    It seems to me that admitting "bad ballot design" is worse than blaming the machines. Anyone who has taken statistics or marketing knows how easy it is to sway polls and sales by such methods as order in the phone book or on the ballot. IMHO bad design could just be effective design for the eventual winner.

  8. Re:unfuckingbelivable by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not knowing the source code for a voting machine is the equivalent to saying "a miracle happens here" at a critical part in a mathematical proof. Completely utterly unnaceptable.

    are you aware of the fact that when it comes to belief in evolution, the USA is 2nd to the last, worldwide, in our ability to think logically and rationally and believe in science and not the boogeyman?

    (if you can trust penn/teller's numbers, we're the worst only second to turkey, I believe, in evolution disbelief!)

    so you say 'a miracle happens' and we're not supposed to just trust that.

    I agree.

    but then again, why is there SO much religion present in the USA? and why is it crippling to rational thought, to the extent that we've become a laughing stock of the world?

    people here seem to believe in magic and spirits and coming back from the dead in 3 days and all that. its not a stretch to understand that we don't NEED logic and reason here. so the idea of 'just trust the machine' works well in jesusland^H^HUSA.

    seriously. when we lose our ability to detect BS and simply trust our leaders (WHO attacked us on 9/11? oh really!) then we get what we deserve.

    welcome to the machine. or so it seems.

    (its alright, we told you what to dream...)

    --

    --
    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  9. Re:Outrageous by spisska · · Score: 3, Informative
    This is commercial code which the vendor hopes to sell in other locations. Which leads me to a separate question for all of those advocating open source code: What should be the compensation model for using the code?

    The question is irrelevant. Voting machine vendors already have to submit machines and source to certification agencies for Logic and Acciracy testing and certification. For any machine in use on election day, the source code (and/or mechanical parts) have already been disected, examined, and certified.

    This is the reason why Diebold machines were decertified in California -- not, as is often claimed, because they are insecure, but because Diebold updated certified firmware with code that had not gone through certification.

    The state already has the right to examine source code, and has already done so. What the judge decided (wrongly, IMHO) is that this right does not extend to parties involved in a disputed election where the primary claim hinges on whether or not the machines and code functioned as they were supposed to.

    NIST has recently recommended requiring the effective open-sourcing of voting machine code, but these recommendations (Voluntary Voting Systems Guidelines) won't go into effect until 2009. Previously, and in the current VVSG, NIST recommends keeping certified source code in escrow so it is available for examination in case of dispute.