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Wal-Mart Is Pushing Compact Fluorescent Bulbs
While we all know from reading the internets that Wal-Mart is irredeemably evil, the world's largest retailer has committed to get compact fluorescent lightbulbs into 100 million homes this year. CFLs are found in only 6% of households today. These energy-saving bulbs use 75% less electricity than incandescents and produce far less greenhouse gas to manufacture and use. Wal-Mart seems determined to use its marketing prowess to do what hasn't successfully been done in the CFL's 25-year history: to convince consumers to pay more upfront for large savings over the product's lifetime.
The delay is pretty much a thing of the past. The ones in my house turn on instantaneously, as far as I can detect. If they are very, very cold (way colder than you'd ever let it get inside your house), it can take maybe half a second.
Yo dawg, I heard you like the Ackermann function, so OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD
Regular bulbs are cheaper to produce - namely because they don't need a ballast (what is hidden in the base in CFLs) like all fluorescents do. Price a replacement ballast at homedepot for a digital (T32?) fluorescent - it costs between $16-25 for four tubes, sometimes more. So I'm surprised they CFLs got so cheap.
BTW, 60 watt equivalent CFLs cost roughly $1.50 a piece (8 pack) at Costco. Much cheaper than Walmart. Nice, bright, instant on.
(A while back, in my dad's new garage, within 3 weeks - 6 of his fluorescent tube fixtures broke. It was a batch of bad ballasts in them. It would have been a bitch replacing just the ballasts - lots of cutting wires, tying the new one together, tearing the fixture apart and putting it back together again - in other words a PITA. We decided to go with regular bulb fixtures with CFLs because we would get the fluorescent cost benefits but the screw in bulb convenience.)
Anyway, the upfront cost is not worth complaining over - with regular use you got your money back within 3-5 months.
Guess what? There is a delay.. maybe a second or so - and then on top of that it takes them about a minute to get up to full brightness. So the 100W equivalent CFL's I have put out (guesstimate) 20W of incandescent equivalent light. I keep my house at 70F. When the bulbs have been operating and are up to about (guesstimate) 100F, they turn on with about a 1/4 second delay. Who keeps their house at 100F?
This makes them inappropriate for stairwells, bathrooms, and any place with automatic light sensors.
"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots." George HW Bush
I have a bunch of LED lights, and they are not a replacement for CFLs or regular light bulbs quite yet: too dim and not really full spectrum.
Just need to spend a buck or two more per bulb. The cheapest ones do, and always will have a delay (Walmart has to be there to serve the cheapass market). Best way to have instant on bulbs is to look for ones that specify "instant on". I've had a few friends & family that switch after seeing mine, but end up buying the cheapest ones they can get their hands on. It's no surprise they end up trashing them once they learn their lesson (bicker over a buck, and get what you pay for) or go back to normal bulbs.
I have several and it really varies from manufacturer to manufacturer as to how bright they are when they turn on and how long it takes to turn on. Some are instant on with about 75% of thier max brightness and only take about 15 seconds to reach thier full brightness. I believe the brand was NuVo, I know I bought them at Home Depot. A real cheap set from Big Lots, take a good minute to reach thier full brightness and take a half second or so to turn on. The rest fall somewhere inbetween. The real good ones will cost you about 4x as much as a good bulb, but they last 8-10x as long and cost about 1/4-1/6 as much to run.
There is a secnod bonus to CFL, they produce less heat. This is particularly important in Southern Climes where your cooling bill is considerably higher than your heating bill. Even those areas where it is frosty outside, electric heat is very inefficient so you are still better off.
Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
A colder light will generally appear brighter since it is close to neutral. Outdoor daylight varies but on a clear day is usually in the realm of 5500-6500k. Compared to a normal incandescent, which is around 2800k, is very warm by comparison. The normal problem with fluorescents is that their colour spectrum sucks. They don't have a very even distribution of power across the light spectrum, at least compared to the sun and incandescents. However, you can buy much better fluorescents if you look. The term used is generally "full spectrum". Also they may talk about color index or CRI or the like and it'll be above 90 (incandescents are 100 by definition). These generally seem much brighter than normal ones as they have better colour spectrum. Only downside is they tend to be more expensive, like $12 per bulb.
o rescent_32_ctg.htm). I've not done much shopping around so there's probably cheaper options out there, but I buy infrequently enough as to not care, and I like their lights. Very neutral light (cold compared to incandescents) and they claim quite a high CRI.
I personally buy mine from BlueMax (http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/compact_flu
I think if you pick up a good CFL, you'll find that it's not the temperature that's the problem but the spectrum. However, if you want warm CFLs, they are easy to get. Check any Home Depot or similar store, and they should have them for sale. That's what I used prior to discovering the full spectrum variety (which I can only find online).
List of Companies Claiming to Recycle or Handle Spent Mercury Containing Lamps (last update May 2006)
The LEDs also produced more lumens per watt power consumption as well as used the lest amount of energy to turn on, whereas the traditional florescents had a 7x power spike for turn on, and the traditionals had a 1.5x spike, even the CFL's had a power spike. Everything says to use LED lights now.
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Unfortunately we live in a market economy. The cost is a real factor. My average lamp is 900 Lumens. My 1 watt flashlight is only 32 lumens.
If I live another 30 years in my present home, what is the cost to outfit a 6 bedroom 3 bedroom home with LED lamps and will I have any savings over CF bulbs I now have installed?
LED lamps are about 20 cents / Lumen.
Refrence PDF alert. http://www.aceee.org/pubs/a042_l11.pdf
At 5 lamps in the kitchen overhead, 2 under the microwave, 5 in the dining room, 4 in the living room, 15 in bathrooms, 12 in bedrooms, 6 in porch and drive, 4 in the laundry, 2 in the hallway, and 5 in the rec room. Average size 60 watt equivelant. Total numbers of lamps is 60 for a total of 54,000 lumens needed.
To make matters of finding a proper replacement, many LED's are not rated in Lumens but intensity. I don't need a spot of light on the celing above the light. I want the room lit up. Remember there are aproximately 1,000 Mcd to a Lumen. Using that compare this bulb to a typical 14 watt CF lamp.
http://item.express.ebay.com/Home-Garden_Lighting
I don't think a 16 lumen lamp is a direct replacement for a 14 watt CF lamp of nearly 900 lumens.
The LEDs also produced more lumens per watt power consumption
http://members.misty.com/don/lede.html
"The better usual modern white LEDs (as of September 2006) produce about 29-45 lumens of light per watt of electricity
http://hes.lbl.gov/hes/makingithappen/no_regrets/
"while the fluorescent produces over 50 lumens per watt"
The high effeciency LED's just are not on the market yet for most white LED's.
I'll stick with CF's as the additional cost of LED's don't yet produce a measurable savings. I have been watching the lumens/watt and cost race for some time. It's getting close, but the average modern white LED is still not as effecient as a typical CF lamp.
A laboratory prototype of a white LED achieving 150 lumens/watt has been announced on 12/20/2006.
Wake me when these are on the shelf at a competitive price.
The truth shall set you free!
AFAIK, the two main quality issues with fluorescent lights are:
With CFLs, the ballast frequency issue was solved a long time ago. Basically, the voltage needs to be stepped up way higher than line voltage (120V in the US, 220V many other places). The low-tech way to do this is with a transformer. This means you get 60 Hz (or 50 Hz, whatever) current at that high frequency. That means flickering. Flickering doesn't happen with incandescent bulbs because it is heat of the filament that is causing the light to be emitted. The electrical current going through the bulb goes to zero 120 times a second (with 60 Hz power), but the filament's thermal mass is high enough that the bulb "coasts" through the zero voltage (and zero current) crossing and continues to emit light. You can even turn off an incandescent and watch it continue to glow for a fraction of a second after power is removed, because it takes time for the filament to cool. But this continuous lighting thing is not the case with a fluorescent, as I understand it. The gas in the tube only produces light when there's a voltage, and it stops pretty much instantaneously when it's not being electrically excited. Thus, with a fluorescent and a low-tech ballast, you get an effect similar to what it looks like when your monitor is set at a painfully low refresh rate, only not quite as bad, but still annoying.
But, as I said, compact fluorescents don't suffer from this issue. The reason is they have electronic ballasts. Instead of simple, dumb circuit with a transformer in it, they have a circuit that steps up the voltage, but it converts it to a much higher-frequency A/C voltage before it gets into the tube. I'm not sure of the frequency, but googling indicates it is in the tens of thousands of Hz. So, it's fast enough your eye really can't perceive it.
The other issue, color temperature is a little different story. As this explanation says, "Warm light is preferred for living spaces because it is more flattering to skin tones and clothing." I think this is the key reason for aesthetic objections to CFLs. Incandescents produce warm light at a color temperature of about 2700K, because that's what happens when you heat up a filament. With compact fluorescents, different options are available. If you want something similar to what you're used to with an incandescent, you should choose a 2700K CFL! It's not at all uncommon for CFLs to come in color temperatures in the range of 4000K or 5000K. That will appear considerably bluer or even weird and greenish compared to an incandescent. Nobody wants their skin tone to appear overly greenish, so 2700K it is, for aesthetic purposes, in most cases.
On a side note, things are different if you want to, say, take pictures of things. In that case, you might want to go with a higher color temperature, because 2700K is considerably warmer (yellower) than what you see outside on a nice sunny day.
I'm a big fan of these bulbs.
Another advantage I've come across is that you can put a brigther bulb in a light fitting only designed to take a low wattage bulb.
e.g. if the light fitting says "40W Max" you can put in a "100W equivilent" CFL bulb since this is really only 20W in terms of actual power, and it is the heat that they are worried about.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
No, you don't need bright light for close work. You need reading glasses. Yes, there's the Inverse Square Law to contend with, but the human eye is remarkable for its ability to see over a range of light levels.
If you've ever used a camera with a manual aperture setting (remember them?), you will know that the focus is much more critical at f/2.8 that f/16 (you can pretty much get away with leaving it on infinity beyond f/8, which is exactly what cheap cameras do).
In bright light, your pupils contract. This increases your eyes' depth of focus, moving your far limit further away and your near limit closer, thus allowing you to see better over more range. Wearing convex lenses will artificially shift your near and far limits closer, thus allowing you to see clearly close up.
I was born short-sighted -- I can't see anything clearly that is more than a couple of metres away. Some time before my 17th birthday, I got my eyes tested and found I would need glasses for driving. It's like having a macro mode when I'm not wearing my specs (which is most of the time, because I'd rather bump into things than wear glasses.) So I don't need reading glasses.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Another example of how the system is set up to favor bastards. The thing is, most people don't believe in suing at the drop of a hat. In fact, they don't even consider the possibility of suing as part of their normal decision making process. For normal people, it's only after stewing on wrongs done to them that the idea of suing occurs to them.
In any case, your chance of successfully pursuing a wrongful termination suit depends on the jurisdiction. If you are an at will employee, the employer can fire you for any reason, unless firing for that reason itself breaks a law (e.g. violation of anti-discrimination or whistelblower protection laws). In many jurisdictions there is a public policy exception to at-will termination. Employees cannot be terminated for filing workman's comp claims in jurisdictions with a public policy exception, because such terminations are clearly in violation of the intent of the workers' compensation laws, even if those laws don't explicitly forbid termination for filing claims.
If there is no local law against discouraging employees from seeking medical treatment, there might not be a public policy exception to at-will termination in your state. Your state might not recognize a public policy exception at all.
What you need is a lawyer versed in the employment laws of your state. Good luck finding one at 3 in the morning while you're suffering an asthma attack.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I see a lot of angst in this discussion without a lot of careful thought. (Hey, this IS /. after all... I shouldn't be surprised.)
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The performance of these bulbs does vary ***greatly*** with the orientation of their installation.
As a personal example, I bought some CFLs for my parents' house and installed them base-up in overhead recessed fixtures. They were very understandably unhappy with the startup time - almost a minute of dim light in a kitchen is very unacceptable. But those same bulbs, base-down, were fine in other places in the same house. If I'd thought about it ahead of time, we could have purchased CFL "instant-on" bulbs and gotten much improved performance in the recessed cans.
CFLs use various types of gas mixtures, and some use drops of liquid mercury like other big fluorescents. If it's a liquid mercury bulb, it takes a short time to evaporate all the mercury when it's first powered on. In this situation, a base-down bulb will probably brighten faster than a base-up bulb, because the drop of mercury will initially be condensed near the emitter coils. The so-called "instant on" CFLs use a different, non-condensing gas mixture.
Also, the brightness profile may have some effect on bulb lifespan: instant-on bulbs may last a shorter time for various reasons. If you're willing to tolerate a slower warmup, you may pay less over the long run for bulb replacement.
See the discussion on this link, or google for "cfl base-up brightness":
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.ph
Moral of the story: there are reasons for these differences, and you can use those differences to your advantage, IF you're willing to think thru the data and specs a bit. Don't toss the baby out with the bathwater just because the "Duh, CFLs are good, heh heh heh" line isn't the whole answer.
--Brandon / Split Infinity Music
Most aren't even capable of understanding the damage walmart as a hole does to the country (wage depression which leads to manufacturing outsourcing which leads to more wage depression)
:)
But ultimately that is exactly where we should be heading. As more products are purchased overseas more Americans are able to afford more stuff with less and less actual work. Its the same theory as with robotics. Your not replacing workers with robots (or people from china) your allowing us to get stuff cheaper and those workers to move to more knowledge based work.
No, the sun gives off pure white light by definition. (That's why we have evolved to see that spectrum as the neutral colour. If you look at the spectrum, arguably it's actually a shade of green.) The reason the sun looks yellow in the sky is because the blue light has been scattered away by the atmosphere, making the sky look blue; the remaining (less scattered) light looks yellow as a result. However, if you look at a piece of white paper in the sunlight, it looks white because the yellow light directly from the sun combines with the blue light from the sky and adds back up to pure white again.
The reason people prefer "warm" yellow light is purely emotional as far as I know. It reminds them of campfires and candles.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....