Slashdot Mirror
How to get a Refund on Your Unwanted Windows
lisah writes "Serge Wroclawski recently contacted Dell to request a refund on the unwanted copy of Windows XP that came pre-installed on his computer. Somewhat surprisingly, Dell complied. Wroclawski admits that the $52.50 refund was more of a victory in principal than anything else, but it was a success nonetheless. Using his tips and techniques readers can try their hand at getting a refund of their own. Wroclawski cautions that you should be prepared for a long haul: the process could take hours." Linux.com and Slashdot are both owned by OSTG.
Is it Microsoft or Dell themselves that *require* you to purchase one of their PC's with an O/S? If it's up to Dell at all, my suggestion to them would be to just have that as an option when ordering via phone or internet. Subtract whatever minimal amount they want and thereby save us and them some grief and some money in the process.
I thought dell built the computer exactly how YOU wanted it? Why not order it with No windows to begin with?
"This message was sent from an Apple
Who needs new games when you have NETRIS?
Wait for Vista to come out to get a bigger discount (if possible to get any). Right now though, if you get XP on a new machine then you are probably going to get the Vista upgrade, which is going to be worth it considering the likely cost of a new license.
Also, do not expect companies to start selling OS free computers anytime soon. They make a good profit off charging for the OS (built into price)
Invexi - a Phoenix, AZ based web design and web development company.
A lot of people have tried this since the "Windows Refund Day" back in 1999. http://linuxmafia.com/refund/ Not many have been successful.
...Most people who don't run Windows on an x86 PC build their own.
...I got just as much satisfaction by tearing the Windows license off my laptop (there's a spot on the laptop chassis marked COA, like it can't work without it) and removing the little sticker that says "Designed for Windows XP"
Unfortunately, it's just not worth the time when you're really just stroking your ego.
mandelbr0t"Please describe the scientific nature of the 'whammy'" - Agent Scully
I suppose mainly because people are obviously willing to pay $89 for it, so why should they sell it for less?
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
If you want an Intel-processor-powered computer without Windows, you can buy them from IBM, HP, Sun, etc; they are Server-type computers. Usually they are noisier becuase they have machine-room-type fans.
Yeah, I think it sucks too.
If it's up to Dell at all, my suggestion to them would be to just have that as an option when ordering via phone or internet. Subtract whatever minimal amount they want and thereby save us and them some grief and some money in the process.
Every option that Dell adds costs them money. Right now, every computer Dell makes has a hard drive in it with Windows installed. They're all the same. If they add an option so that you can select 'No Windows', then they need to start keeping track of which computers have windows on them and which don't.
Now, obviously, Dell already has lots of options. But you'll note most of those options lead you to spending MORE money, not less money. And how many people really go to Dell to buy a computer and DON'T want windows on it? I would guess that the number is so small that the extra business Dell might get by offering a no-windows option is not worth the cost to them of doing so. Which is a perfectly rational business decision to make.
On the other hand, if lots of people keep calling up Dell and tying up their customer service reps on the phone doing Windows refunds, they may decide that offering the option is less expensive than fielding the calls (Dell doesn't want to pay people to talk to you on the phone any more than you want to waste time talking on the phone to them). So, if enough people call, the rational business decision might change from 'Always bundle windows' to 'Offer a no-Windows option'. Which is where 'the principle mentioned' in TFA applies.
paintball
Which is why even the summary says: "Wroclawski admits that the $52.50 refund was more of a victory in principle than anything else".
Anything that shows companies like Dell that people want something other than Windows is a step in the right direction. Maybe after refunding that $52.50 enough times, they'll start to rethink pre-installing Windows without giving people a choice.
Is this an honest question?
Volume discounts are a very good answer. First of all, if your partner (in this case, Dell), can guarentee you a certain number of sales, and your marginal cost for each OEM unit is nearly $0, it's definately in your favor to give them a discount.
Second, supply and demand. $52 may be all Dell is willing to pay to put Windows on their systems. Whereas for somebody going out and buying a boxed copy, they are apparently willing to pay more.
Third, support costs. If Dell is selling the software, and willing to be the first line of support, that means that they are willing to take on support costs and therefore lower Microsofts.
Fourth, distribution costs. Shipping thousands of OEM copies to one customer (Dell) is much cheaper than shipping thousands of retail boxed copies to multiple customers (retailers). Also, since you don't have to print up a box and packaging, creating those OEM copies is much cheaper.
Preferential pricing occurs in virtually any market and for the same reasons it occurs in the OS market. Just because it's Windows doesn't mean it's any different than selling other items.
-dave
/., where "Apple and Google provide Iran with nukes" will be refuted with "But Microsoft is a convicted monopolist"
There are a large number of people out here, albeit a minority, that do want to just run, say, Linux, on the PCs that they buy. And the fact is that the more time you spend researching and selecting hardware carefully, especially in the case of laptops, means that the easier job you'll have getting Linux to recognise of all of it.
I've never put Linux on a Dell laptop so I don't know how Linux-friendly they are - but I have recently done so an IBM one (which was easy), on a HP one (which was a bit trickier) and finally on a Gateway one (which I never got 100% working).
No, the $52 is not an important sum of money but if a number of people do it, then it sends a clear message to Dell to offer OS-free laptops. If other people run XP and are happy with it then good luck to them and I hope it does what they want it to do - but there is no "one size fits all" in computing and please have some respect for those of us who aren't interested in getting involved in an OS "war" but do want the freedom to run the software that they want to.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
They had to pay some support person to talk to him for those two hours, and their supervisor, and he tied up phone lines and computers on their end. The paid return postage. Then they probably needed someone in a different department to actually issue the $52.50 and then they had to pay credit card fees to return the money to his card. If they actually went ahead and returned the license to microsoft then that's yet more cost.
Companies may have very low operating expenses when everything goes to plan, but i would be surprised if it cost dell a decent multiple of 52.50 to actually process the issue.
If they start to notice it happening more often then the obvious thing to do is to build it in to the process and let people order machines without windows.
Getting the largest computer manufacturer to conceed that Windows isn't the only way would be a big win for everyone.
evidently you've missed the point though.
it's about principle. if enough of us demand the 52 bucks, thats a good deal of money for Dell and Microsoft to eat. This will lead the future offering of machines without an OS preloaded.
If you wonder why things in the world are taking a down turn, it's because very few people are willing to do things just on principle. As one person, yea, 52 bucks is less than a drop in the bucket (Especially from the corporation's side of it) But if we work together, we can begin to change things towards our liking.
Don't Tread on Me
From the Windows XP Home EULA:
If he did not, in fact, agree to be bound by the terms of the EULA, he had every right to ask for a refund.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Sounds like he's up 52 bucks compared to you at the end of a few hours. Now who's the dumbass with the stupid hobby?
And it's not just the $52. He's gained knowlege, published it for the benefit of others, and for all we know could have been enjoying a cocktail himself in the process. It's his time, he can spend it as he pleases whether you or I approve or not.
I am not a crackpot.
Microsoft "negotiated" terms for giving OEMs better rates on Windows. Bottom line is that if hardware vendors don't put an OS on each and every PC/ laptop that they sell they end up paying more for Windows.
The effect is that the Microsoft Tax becomes great enough that the hardware vendor can't compete with other vendors who get Windows for a cheaper price. Being that Microsoft has a monopoly on operating systems any vendor that doesn't go along goes out of business.
Microsoft originally required that only Microsoft OS could be installed but this was illegal so they did the next best thing. BTW Dell use to sell computers with Linux installed. I don't know if they do any more but instead of being cheaper they charged more because they can't just grab one off of an assembly line. It takes special attention and therefore costs more. So Microsoft is still leveraging there monopoly power through their price breaks given to vendors who won't sell a bare PC.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
No, they don't want Windows, they want a computer because they want to surf teh intarwebs, use myspace, and forward stupid email jokes to all of their friends. They couldn't give a shit what the OS is, so long as the computer does what they want and doesn't cost more than they are willing to pay.
By forcing all the vendors to offer only computers with Windows preinstalled, Microshaft has guaranteed victory over the majority of computer buyers who just don't know any better. (Including corporations.)
And your follow-up too. Perhaps there is a lesson in this for you? ;-)
You went against groupthink. what do you expect?
And now watch as my point is reinforced by someone modding this post troll...
You have a valid point, for you, linux is not the right choice. However, groupthink on slashdot doesn't seem to understand the concept of true free choice.
At least you are able to say why you want to use Windows, the extent of most peoples excuses for using linux on here extend as far as "cuz winblowz r sucks lol".
Not that an excuse should be needed. Free choice, remember.
Retail markup. The retailer has to be able to make money on that software, or they aren't going to carry it. You can't sell a retailer something for $50 and tell them to sell it for $50, they'll probably want to sell it for $100. When Dell refunds you money, they aren't refunding the marked up price, since the markup is on the whole PC, they refund you their purchase price. Also their markup on the software is probably lower since it's just part of a whole package to make the package more attractive.
FYI MS offers volume discounts to other large organizations. My university pays $54 per copy of Office we want. However, as similar to Dell, there's no support, we have to deal with the media, etc.
I cannot believe that you say this like you're actually *PROUD* of it.
How about demonstrating *REAL* strength of conviction and character by running a *FREE LEGAL ALTERNATIVE* rather than an illegal Windowss Vista copy? Surely that would send a much stronger message to Microsoft about their pricing and give them less of a justification for punishing legal users with the likes of DRM because of your activities.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Principle? No way. If he cared about principle, he wouldn't be buying a Dell laptop which came preinstalled with Windows, and then demand a refund. He would buy a computer with Linux preinstalled, or buy a computer with no OS at all and then install Linux on it. That there are no Linux laptops available is a myth: see list at bottom of message. The best way to support Linux is to support Linux laptop builders, not to throw more money at Dell. Maybe the Dells are cheaper. Fine, then buy the Dell and throw the Windows away. I think it's ridiculous to buy the Dell and demand refunds. I don't smoke and have no gizmos, so I demand that Honda give me a refund for the cigarette lighter in the car. I don't need his and hers sinks, so I demand the home builder give me a refund for one sink in the bathroom. I don't need the knives in the silverware set I just bought, so I demand a refund from Oneida. I don't need the Print Screen or SysRq buttons on the keyboard, so I demand a refund for them. Ridiculous.
http://www.linuxcertified.com/
http://www.emperorlinux.com/
http://www.shoprcubed.com/
http://www.kc-computers.com/
Penny - plain text accounting
Dell sells a product with an explicit offer to return a component for a refund under certain conditions. Did the terms of sale presented when you purchased the Honda/house/silverware offer a refund of the cost of the unused component? If not then you're not provided comparable scenarios. Why does it anger you to hear about customers satisfying the conditions to obtain the offered refund?
The EULA in question is the one presented by Windows as distributed by Dell. Dell and Microsoft worked out an agreement for Dell to ship Microsoft's product. The EULA that is displayed by Dell's OEM copy of Windows says that Windows can be returned for a refund. Dell could have worked out an agreement with Microsoft to ship a copy of Windows that does not include that term in the EULA, but they didn't. As has been demonstrated elsewhere in this thread, Dell does offer machines with FreeDOS and even Linux pre-installed, so they acknowledge that home customers want computers without Windows. Exercising the right to return the distributed copy of Windows for a refund is not nagging, it's showing Dell that an option they offer on some models is also desired for other models.
And I think part of the point is that if Dell has to shell it out enough times, they might make it easier to buy a computer with no OS installed to start with.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
Here, I'll help.
Windows version: none. Are you saying they don't track which machines went out with Windows 95 or Vista Pro?
Hrm, looking at my original post, no it does not appear I said that. I said that offering an additional option of operating system costs money that is probably not worth the increased business from having the option.
I cited having to add an item to the assembly process as an example, but it was just one example.
You mention that Dell already tracks what OS shipped on each computer. So what? The increased costs are not just in remembering what OS was on the computer when you sold it.
Increased costs also come from other areas. There's a cost in giving a user a choice they may not understand - confusion may cost you sales, and it may cost you more money on customer service inquiry. Most people know that 512 MB is better than 256 MB. Most users do not know what the difference is between Windows and Linux.
Most importantly, when you customize a Dell, there are *NO* options you can select that will result in you getting a computer you can't turn on and use. You can't select NO hard drive. You can't select NO memory. And they're not going to have an option for you to select NO OS, because then people will select it and start getting computers that don't work.
Remember also that Dell supports their own hardware. If someone gets it, and it doesn't work, Dell gets the phone call. So even if they offer Windows AND Linux, when people choose Linux, and then go to install a program that they expect to work that does not work on Linux, Dell gets that call too.
Adding an option for No OS or Linux to consumer-model desktops and laptops just does not make sense for Dell to do. The number of people who would like to use Linux who would be pleased by the option is far, far, far less than the number of customers who will end up with computers that they think, even though it's because of their own ignorance, are broken. Dell does not care whether the customer thinks they have a broken computer because the customer is ignorant. Dell only cares that the customer thinks they got a broken computer.
Another cost is support. Fielding people who can support Windows 95 and Windows XP is a whole different ball game than fielding support that can handle Windows XP and Linux.
As has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, Dell does have Linux available on some computers - specifically, high-end workstations. But all that shows is that it's profitable to offer high-end workstations with !windows while trying to offer consumer computers with !windows is not.
It isn't any more reasonable for Dell to offer 'No Windows' or 'Linux' than it is for them to offer 'No Video Card' or a video card from a non-partnered vendor. You buy the computer, you get the video cards they make available. If you don't like it, you don't get to pull it out and send it back. The only reason you get a refund on Windows is because of the license agreement.
Or, put another way, if YOU want Linux on your computer, don't buy your computer at Dell. It's not their obligation to offer Linux if they think it's more trouble for them than it's worth.
paintball
Dell needs Windows to make money. Have you ever purchased a Dell? There is incredible amount of shareware and crippleware on a Dell. Do you think Dell is including this software out of the goodness of it's heart? No, everything icon added on the build was paid for. And if you've bought a Dell, specially Dell Home PC there's A LOT of paid placement.
Parent has a really good point. Considering the number of people who will ever hear about this refund, and the number of those who are eligible for a refund, and the number of those who want a refund, and the number of those who will actually bother, Dell and Microsoft aren't going to be in any kind of trouble. But I could sure use 52 bucks.
:)
If enough of you think 52 bucks isn't a big deal, on the other hand, let me know, and I'll setup a P.O. box you can send it to