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NASA Will Go Metric On the Moon

An anonymous reader writes "Space.com is reporting that NASA has decided to use the metric system for its new lunar missions. NASA hopes that metrication will allow easier international participation and safer missions. The loss of the Mars Climate Orbiter was blamed on an error converting between English units and metric units. 'When we made the announcement at the meeting, the reps for the other space agencies all gave a little cheer,' said a NASA official."

10 of 695 comments (clear)

  1. Hopfuly this is a trend by VEGETA_GT · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Metric is a very easy system to deal with and has been adopted over a large portion of the world. Technically Canada has been metric for over 20 years. Tho things like construction has remained Imperial as we are next to the US. If not for the Us Canada would be completely metric, but since the Us is right next door, we end up in the metric camp with one foot still over in the Imperial side o things. But I don't see the Us converting to metric any time soon, but the scientific community moving to metric to do its work instead of continually converting would be a great leap in the right direction.

    1. Re:Hopfuly this is a trend by Stanistani · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Confusion can be fatal or just embarassing, such as in the Gimli Glider incident, which was partially due to a units conversion error.

  2. American metric system by camperdave · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It secretly amuses me when Americans (one of only three backwards countries that haven't converted) argue about keeping the "imperial" system. All of your current units of measurement have been defined relative to the metric system for the past 50 years or so. From the wiki: "One inch international measure is exactly 25.4 millimeters, while one inch U.S. survey measure is defined so that 39.37 inches is exactly 1 meter". "The pound avoirdupois, which forms the basis of the U.S. customary system of mass, is defined as exactly 453.59237 grams".

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    1. Re:American metric system by immel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The conversion from electron volts to Joules is the value of a coulomb, which is another important metric unit in electrical calculations (although "metric" and "electrical" may be redundant; I have yet to encounter english units in circuits). The point is, if you know what a coulomb is (and you should, if you are doing this sort of calculation), you know how to convert between electron volts and Joules.

      Now the english unit for energy, on the other hand, is the Btu. Converting it to the next "logical" english unit is a factor of about 778 Btu in a ft*lbf. Anyone who has taken thermodynamics knows the Btu as an enemy because using it with things like pressure (usually lbf/in^2) and mass flow rate (remember, there are many types of pounds in English, some for mass and some for force) requires inches, feet, and two types of pounds. Now let's try to convert from Btus to electron volts for even more fun! Because english has failed to come up with any useful electric units (even in the US), this calculation gets extra-nasty.

      I suppose my point is as follows: Does the metric system always mesh nicely with physics? No. That's just the way the universe works. FSM made it that way. But some English units just seem to fit together with no rhyme or reason whatsoever! It's as if they made it up as they went along.

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  3. Urban Legend by DerekLyons · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The loss of the Mars Climate Orbiter was blamed on an error converting between English units and metric units.

    Exhibit #1 for why Wikipedia is not to be trusted - they continue to tell half the story. (On this and many other topics, they prefer the simple and popular explanation over completeness and accuracy. [1])
     
    MCO was lost not because of a metric conversion error - but because an increasing divergence between the planned and actual performance was ignored. The official report mentions this - but glosses over its importance. MCO was lost because NASA attempted to fly the mission on the cheap, because of this testing and analysis during the cruise phase was cut from the budget. Some analysis was done on the side by a few engineers - and their calls for a formal analysis went unheeded until too late.
     
    [1] And before the Wikipedia cheerleaders chime in, yes - I have tried to fix many articles to correct this problem. Without exception the corrections were either reverted out or edited into meaninglessness. On Wikipedia the win goes to the editor with time on his hands or who can cite a lightweight popular article as the source of his 'facts'.
  4. Re:Yay!!! by itlurksbeneath · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Consistent? We (the US) buy soft drinks by the liter, booze by the milliliter and milk by the gallon. Where's the consistency there?

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  5. Re:Good start by Freultwah · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm European and I've never been exposed to the imperial system. I am thus not tempted to use my hands or feet for measuring anything but the runway length for my long jumps. I've heard of no-one that uses decimetres for measuring distance, either. It's pretty much "metre twenty" or "two forty" everything. The pound thing, I think, would be "half a kilo", the beer issue is solved by asking "a beer". Or "a small beer" for a 0.33 l glass. (Other beer countries' customs and glass sizes do vary.) People weigh something like "75 kilos" and are "metre eighty" tall.

    I guess it shows that even if you would think one system is harder or more cumbersome for certain things than the other, people who have had exposure to only one of them tend to come up with a very flexible and convenient way of measuring stuff. I still get dizzy when a translator fails to translate all the measurements to the target culture's system (all right, there are those rare times when it's desirable to have cubic feet and furlongs in literature), but the North Americans don't.

    My favourite (not) is the standard PC case and its measurements. Have a metric ruler handy and go over it. Everything is very much metric. The 3.5 inch floppy? It's not 8.89 cm, it's exactly 9 cm. The 3.5 inch drive bay? Exactly 10 cm wide. The 5 1/4 inch bay? Not 13.335 cm, exactly 15 instead. Etc. Everything metric from the beginning, re-measured and rounded to fit the imperial system (what with the US probably being the biggest target market in the beginning of the PC). The sad thing is, the rest of the world seems to be accepting it unconditionally. It's as if no-one has had a ruler handy for quite some time.

  6. Re:The irony of calling it the "English" system... by Malc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The bigger irony is that they're not even proper "english" units! The fl. oz. is slightly bigger, there are fewer fl. oz. in a pint, the ton is lighter, and have you ever heard Americans measuring their weight in stones? Perhaps they were looking for somebody else to blame for the twisted unit system, and chose the name of the country they rejected in 18th century!

  7. Mixed opinions by evanbd · · Score: 3, Interesting
    As someone working on an early prototype for one of the engines involved, I'd like to say I have mixed opinions on this.

    Metric is good for all the obvious reasons -- SI units haver fewer weird things going on, conversions are easier, interoperable tools and fittings, etc etc. For all things like discussing distances, velocities, thrust levels, trajectory simulations, and more, I'm completely in favor of metric everywhere.

    The one place I don't like this is when it comes to fittings, fasteners, plumbing, etc. Partly it's that metric nuts, bolts, and fittings are harder to find. You can't buy metric pipe fittings around here. Sure, you can order them, but that takes longer and costs more. The cost isn't a big issue on most things, but turnaround time is -- if you find a problem, it's really nice to be able to order a different part and have it the next day, rather than waiting a few days for something from Europe to clear customs and arrive. On some things, though, it actually makes a big difference. A lot of things like large pressure regulators, specialty valves, and more are even harder to find with metric fittings on them -- specifically, they become custom parts, with associated cost increases and weeks of lead time, which is frequently unacceptable.

    And before anyone says you can buy metric parts in the US -- sure, you can, as long as they're "normal." It's the specialty parts that are hard. For example, McMaster-Carr stocks 3798 different socket cap screws in English sizes, but only 1610 in metric. If you need a weird metric screw, you may very well be out of luck.

    The other major thing is subcontracts -- if I hire a consultant or send a part out to be machined, the machinist needs to have metric tools. Again, most machinists have a basic set of metric tools, but not an entire shop's worth. If the consultant or machinist has to start buying new tooling, your costs and the delivery time start going up.

    I'll say it again -- having to buy parts from out of the country is not just a minor nuisance; it has a direct impact on how quickly you can revise a design and do the next test, which directly translates into how long it takes to complete the project.

    I'm in favor of working toward compatibility, but it's not nearly as obvious an answer as it looks when it comes to tooling, since the installed base of English tooling and suppliers is *so* *huge* while metric is really only supported because of a few foreign-made parts.

  8. Metric would work better in base 12 by jesterzog · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's actually interesting that a lot of people here (Canada) use mixed units. Personally, I usually use feet if I'm estimating a distance (it's just a very convienient size - the closest metric equivalent is a decimeter, just doesn't quite cut it), and pounds and feet/inches for human weight/height.

    I've grown up using Metric, since New Zealand's been standardised on it since well before I was born. I use it all the time, and I love it. So many different units of measurement go between each other in logical ways, many of which aren't noticed by most, right down to things like standard pencil widths being designed to match standard paper sizes. There are definitely problems with using it for day-to-day use, though, which I think most people just put up with. (The metre is often too big, the centimetre isn't big enough, and so on. Blocks of 10 cm would make a lot of sense, and I'm a bit surprised they don't get used.)

    What imperial really has going for it, though, and one of the reasons it's so convenient, is that the units make it easier to divide things up for day-to-day tasks. In metric, it's easy to divide by 10, and often by 5 and 2, but outside of that the decimal places start getting long and often end up recurring. Dividing things into threes, fours and sixes really doesn't work if you also want twos and fives.

    This is more to do with base 10 than with metric. I've often wondered if metric would be better long term if everyone counted in base 12, instead, and if the relationships between metric units were based on multiples of 12 instead of 10. For day to day use, simpler fractions translate to decimals (or whatever decimals are called in base 12) more nicely with base 12 than base 10. eg.

    1/1 in base 10 is 1.0, in base 12 is 1.0.
    1/2 in base 10 is 0.5, in base 12 is 0.6.
    1/3 in base 10 is 0.333333..., in base 12 is 0.4.
    1/4 in base 10 is 0.25, in base 12 is 0.3.
    1/5 in base 10 is 0.2, in base 12 is 0.24.
    1/6 in base 10 is 0.166666.... in base 12 is 0.2.

    Base 12 makes the first 6 fractions easy to write as a decimal, whereas base 10 becomes a real problem. This probably wouldn't be practical because it's a huge learning curve for everyone, but it'd be quite interesting all the same.