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What Solar Equipment to Power Disaster Recovery?
MailtoDelete asks: "I work with a team that is involved with disaster recovery efforts after natural disasters, like Katrina. We have satellite based equipment that allows us to bring data connections up in devastated areas to help bring the infrastructure back online to serve the public. I have looked at the main networking equipment and determined that the power draw is usually low (about 50 watts) and was curious about the possibility of using a small solar setup to power the equipment rather than running a 8-10kw generator to do the same work (after all, fuel may be scarce). Can anyone suggest a good site or book that I can look into that would help me learn more about what equipment would best serve my purpose? There is a small business in town that does this sort of work, and they have suggested a 550 watt array with the controllers, etc for about $5100. Does this sound reasonable?"
I know it's not solar, but you might try this. http://www.solarpath1.com/airmfset/airmfset.htm?gc lid=CN270ezT1IkCFRR5OAodhW4yzA
We are all just people.
You'll need some sort of long-term energy storage if you want to use solar power, as solar power doesn't function in a cloudy situation. The OP mentioned Katrina- if you're in a hurricane and need disaster recovery stuff, there's usually still a general rainy period (though not hurricane-strength) after the brunt of the hurricane hits, as well as the fact that it may just plain be cloudy. To be quite frank, I'm not sure why you think "solar power" in conjunction with disaster recovery- you want something that will function under almost any condition, not function under "good" conditions and have to rely on a backup power source when the conditions are bad.
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Home Power magazine's website it's a great place to start. You can download free PDF files with practical information about solar power generators for home use.
http://www.homepower.com/
Wind power.
Unless the array can be steered, it gets its rated power at noon and less when the sun is off axis. So, your 550 watt array will give you maybe 3 kWh on a sunny day.
The absolute requirement for any solar power installation is power conservation. A buck spent on power conservation will save you ten bucks on solar panels.
Start here. Also, subscribe to their magazine, Renew.
Why the hell would you want to do Solar after a disaster?
My disaster recovery involves:
a) an Ethanol still ~$1500 USD
b) a generator tuned to run on Ethanol85/E100
So, in any disaster scenario I can just ship a few hundred bushels of feedstock grade corn (for livestock, or refuse), to a site and power electrical equipment. Solar is very inefficient per dollar, and in a post-hurricane scenario (or blizzard condition), you won't be able to power your equipment.
With an ethanol still/generator, you just need to tote the corn/stalks/refuse and have a source of fire.
Remember, Solar depends on good weather conditions and heavy batteries. It's not very portable for scenarios like Katrina (as your post suggests). It could take days to charge up the batteries up enough to begin using the equipment, and furthermore, you'll be moving very sensitive equipment(glass) into a volatile (post disaster) zone.
Any truck on the planet can carry feedstock and a simple engine/still to very remote places.
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
Try taking a look at marine equipment. There's plenty of resources online, or if you're near the coast try a boating shop. The larger the better. They're experienced with all sorts of weather-hardened equipment (what if the rain comes back?) that generates power in that range. Be aware you'll likely need some sort of battery system to store the juice and provide output at a sustained rate. You'll probably want to look into deep-cycle batteries.
Basically there's people on the go all over the world with no steady supply of power or fuel who have to be prepared for intense weather conditions - they're called yachties (c:
Your Brain + EEG + LEGO Robots = Brainstorms
Yachts use solar and wind power to charge their batteries, it's a combination which works. Take a look at vertical axis wind turbines as well as photovoltaics. They can be cheap and run at low wind speeds.
Deleted
Assuming a non permanent install:
:)
Solar + battery back up (if continuous operation is required) is fine. But I don't see why it has to be the USD5000 version - sounds too expensive.
You said the equipment has low power requirements, so just point the panel in the direction that gets the most sun and leave it there to charge the batteries for the times when there's not enough sunlight. Shouldn't need any fancy expensive controllers for that. If you're that desperate, maybe you can get stuff to reflect sunlight on to the panel when the sun is in a bad position.
But if the equipment is going to be close to humans and needs a fair bit of power:
Use a generator that can use cooking oil (edible).
If humans need feeding more than the generator, feed them the cooking oil.
If the generator runs out of diesel/whatever and needs "feeding" more than the humans, feed it the oil.
Home Power Magazine publichs some good howto articles as does Solar Today .
FalconShould there be a Law?
I strongly recommend that you use the Sun as your primary piece of equipment.
Buy a smaller generator.
.66 gallons of fuel has a runtime of 12 hours with 25% load. $700
Yamaha EF1000iS 900W generator with
Yeah, that would've worked great after the Loma Prieta earthquake in Santa Cruz. Not only were the phones and electricity down for several days, but so were the ROADS.
All I can say is that you've got to be kidding, trying to arrange several hundred bushels of anything after a major disaster. You clearly haven't been in one.
The moral of the story is that your plan HAS to be suitable for your local conditions. Tying it to just one source is absolutely foolish if that source isn't going to be available for a while.
I keep hearing "Ethanol is the future", so I make sure that I'm beer-powered and it seems to work best with me on sunny, hot days. And I make sure that I have an extra 24 in the computer for those "Disaster Recovery" days. I've got the key to the roof too and a couple of lawn chairs if you'd like to join me during our next "systems crash"
During field days this is what they do. Quickly set up and power a very sophisticated amount of high tech communications devices, out in some field someplace. They've been doing this for years.
As to solar rigs, that price is not unreasonable. You can get true plug and play module rigs as well, all-in-one units, or two pieces at the most, the movable PV arrary plus the charger/controller/inverter/batteries on wheels or on a trailer. I would suggest the full trailer routine, probabgly the easiest solution and you can adapt what you might need as to more cargo space, etc. And add in a fuel generator anyway, you really will be better of with both if possible.
http://www.rpc.com.au/
Great site, has heaps of information, ships worldwide.
I happened to see an ad for this just today. Portable solar power station with a generator back-up (with SVO diesel an option). (I've no relation to the product other than noticing a print ad and thinking "huh, that's interesting".) At $7995 it's a fair bit pricier than the $5100 you mention, but that does include the generator, and they claim to qualify for a $2000 federal tax credit.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
So you need 50W of power (maybe at multiple locations). Do you want to do it green, or get a job done?
A (I'm generalizing) small, light, reliable, and cost effective way to go about it is with mass produced fuel burning products (like small generators).
I like green, but solar cells in an emergency are not the most cost efficient way to power something, especially considering transport / setup / weather.
Would certainly be a lot more compact than 550-watt's worth of solar panels - and wouldn't be affected by cloudy weather.
You mention 50W, 8-10KW and then 550W. So which is it?
At 50W, solar makes some sense because a larger array can charge batteries with minimal sunlight in a few hours and the batteries can last for days at a 50W draw.
At 8-10KW trying to do this with solar will be quite expensive and the batteries to run this load at night will be nothing but astonishing. Yes, take your 550W array and multiply the cost 16x. Then add a bunch more for 80KWH worth of batteries to run it at night. Then look for the 50ft semi-trailer to haul this stuff around.
550W with the batteries is only a medium size proposition. Yes, the array is going to be pricey and do not forget the batteries for at least 24 hours without sunlight. But the price for going solar will be amortized over a long, long period of fuel costs for a generator. If this is really something that is only seldom used you are talking about literally zero fuel costs most of the time. This means you are paying a premium to be free of the fuel requirements rather than just countering fuel costs.
I would think about this a long time before spending 5-10x what you might need for a properly sized generator and a fairly minimal amount of fuel to keep it running.
search for "solar electric information". You'll find all kinds of stuff.
Your solar panels won't put out full power when it's cloudy or hot, so oversize them by a good margin. Get an inverter, and you're set. A 175-watt panel and an inverter could start out at $1,000.
Since your power usage is fairly low, you could add a charge-controller, and as many batteries as you desire, which would accomplish two things: First, it would get your 50-watt load through the night as well. Second, it would give you power to run higher-draw devices than your solar panel could drive for a short to moderate amount of time. The total bill would still be under $2500.
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
http://www.backwoodssolar.com/
One other site I found interesting: http://store.altenergystore.com/Kits-Package-Deals /Sunwize-Power-Ready-Systems/c692/
>Shouldn't need any fancy expensive controllers for that.
Betcha the reference was to charge controllers for the batteries as opposed to sun tracking systems.
You need a charge controller. Draw too much or too little current from a solar panel and you lose efficiency, something you really can't afford. The batteries also need some coddling: you'd be surprised how involved a good charging algorithm is.
Suggestions:
o Standardize the generator on whatever fuel is being shipped into the disaster area. The Army has standardized on diesel, maybe they'll share some.
o Consider a hybrid system: smaller, lighter generator with longer runtime that you can turn off during sunny weather. Or run flat out to charge batteries and then turn off for a while. Investigate RFI issues before you buy a generator (or a charge controller for that matter).
o Take a long, unsympathetic look at the communications equipment. Is it using the least possible amount of transmit power? Are you sure you can't drop it 3dB? A few more dB with a higher gain antenna? Another dB or two using lower-loss cable in the feed line?
o Your supplier is completely reasonable suggesting 10 peak watts for every continuous watt you need. $6/peak watt is reasonable for just the panels, add in the batteries and electronics and there you've got their estimate.
o Use AGM batteries. Gel cells are prima donnas about how they get charged, flooded batteries would leave you hauling acid in a disaster area, other chemistries are unaffordable at the sizes you'll need.
o Go to the disaster site in a Prius, leave it in Park and on Ready, and pull up to ~800 watts off the 12-volt subsystem (the DC-DC downconverter is fused at 100 amps and drops out of regulation a little over 60 amps). When the 12V battery gets low, the computer recharges it from the high-voltage battery that propels the car. When that gets low, it starts the gas engine at a very efficient setting. You then have a quiet generator that runs only when needed, makes the best use of limited fuel, cleans up its carbon monoxide, and which gives you mobility too.
As I read TFQ, he's interested in exploring solar as a potentially practical solution to his problem, not as part of some Greenpeace covert op.
I think you don't need to tell him how good generators are, since he says he's got one. He goes on to say that fuel scarcity is an issue. It sounds like he operates the sort of service that goes in and stays for a while, so generator fuel supply is not necessarily trivial.
Also, I think he knows the disadvantages of solar cells right enough, but recall that he's setting up satellite links for networks. It's a good bet that he's already hauling around bulky equipment, such as satellite dishes, that needs to be set up and weatherized in the open. Solar cells may not be much more of a burden.
Before you tell a guy he's nuts, it'd probably pay to consider the possibility that knows a lot more about his logistical requirements and options than you do.
With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
I don't really have any answers, just more questions - more detail about your response situations would really be needed to get into more specifics (and I'm not in this area this anyway).
Reading other posts here, I agree that the Marine angle may provide a good avenue for further investigation. Another option is to look at organisations in the 3rd world and see what they use. Another poster made a good point in contacting local HAM outfits to see what they use for emergency and mobile operation.
You could also try contacting other emergency services organisations in your region - there are sure to be some local ones, as well as groups like coast guards, chapters of Medicine Sans Frontiers, International Red Cross etc
. I think that some of the key points are likely to be:
Think further afield - you can go from a very primitive portable situation, to more of a long term field camp arrangement, to a permament station?
Less technological solutions and allowing for very small packages could be having a good crank generator hooked up to either a person peddling or to a domesticated animal of some kind (like a horse on a flour grinder)?
Someone else has already mentioned using Diesel generators - you could use biodiesel, take from visiting trucks tanks, or grow your own (too much like hard work)?
Do you have the ability to use 3rd party equipment? Eg, police, military, other peoples vehicles to charge batteries. What will the people who use your equipment have available that you might use / exchange?
If the deployment ends up being long term, can you request an additional deployment of equipment (eg, have a crisis kit with a diesel / fuel generator for short term, with a good solar kit to follow up)?
If the deployment ends up being long term, can you reduce the operating load on the system (eg, have fixed operating windows) to reduce fuel usage / improve solar effectiveness
Can you mix multiple energy sources (eg, very small generator for short term / emergencies, small solar for ongoing and possibly a crank generator of some kind.
How low can you get your energy budget? Are there lower power alternatives you can get?
How independent do you need to be?
Good Luck!
Many RV folks have decided to use solar power to supplement the gas/diesel gensets found in their rigs. There's a market supplying these folks. Kits for RVs and cabins exist already, and probably will do what you're asking. Size your equipment properly, and run directly off the batteries if you can - every voltage conversion is lossy. Here's a nice selection of RV and cabin setups, complete with prices.
these guys are one of the top in that field
...as being mobile is very important...you never know if a tornado comes back around a second time etc.... and if you come in
http://www.icpsolar.com/
they are global and have been used by the military, call them explain what you need, they do everything from rv, boat, camp, military, golf cart, houses, corporate....heck
if you want they can even send you someone to help you full time for your situation as they have contractors too, that could investigate what your needs are if you dont quite fully understand the
stuff you may need for your situation, nothign worse then being told to buy all sorts of stuff, when you only needed a few things.
also many of the posts above mention wise advice about learning what your needs are and how critical
your situation may be (post disaster scenarios...) i would highly suggest maybe getting
a few diff set ups. Get the solar power stuff, get the diesel generators AND the bio ethanol
generators... plus also set up a rig that can accept extra power to help load up the
charge batteries, ie- if someone can help and they have a diesel truck, leave it running
to help charge your batteries during the night, that way you have extra charge
you would need to get someone to figure out how to implement a cable system and load balancing system to accpet that charge into your batteries that are also connected for your solar power cells...
I might also recommend getting like a pit crew for nascar...a full rig that has all this
built into it or maybe a bigger cab truck with the double axles
already set up so to speak, and can leave with minimal time to load...the better for you
good luck...all the best with you efforts to help those in need
Many folks have suggested smaller generators and such. The specific setup is a 22 foot trailer with satellite, security equipment and computer equipment. The trailer already has an 8kw generator welded to the tongue. Since the power draw is relatively low if only the networking equipment is needed (50 watts) I was thinking about adding a solar system to the trailer. This way, if the batteries were critically low, the genset could charge the system, but the batteries would have enough stored energy to last a few days with marginal solar charging if the genset were unable to run (no gas or other problems). As for re-supply, yes, it is possible. We get resupplied either from the fed. gov't or from our own people. Thanks for all the great input and links so far! :)
Here are some links I collected after a previous /. mention of these turbines:
Windside Products
TMA Global Wind Energy Systems
PicoTurbine (for fun)
This is why many more people need to be already solar equipped, all over the place. With enough panels in any area, some would survive, and it's easy to store panels securely out of harms way. I keep one large one and two of the roll up flex panels tucked away, along with a small 300 watt aeromarine windgenny. And I don't think you'd need to truck in batteries, just scrounge car batteries on-site. Not perfect, but they work well enough. Heck in ye olden hippie days, we ran "alternative energy" just by having two identical car batteries. Inside the cabins/huts/tents whatever, a 12 VDC car radio and a parking light (and sometimes an 8 track player and CB) sufficed. You just swapped out the battery into your ride well before it went too flat to start the car, or set it to jumper cables for 15 minutes or so to the still good battery in the car and started it then, let it run a scosh, then swap it out for full charging as you drove to work or whatever. A little tedious, but I know some guys lived for years like that and I did myself off and on. A little more work and a run to the trunk and you can add a place for the second battery there, or build a shelf in the engine compartment. And real small cheap generators exist now commercially, starting around 200 bucks.
I am a big proponent of personal preparedness. I think everyone should make moves to being more self sufficient during emergencies. The biggest problem is when huge numbers of people have *nothing at all* in the way of preparations, one or two days food max in the home, no alternative electricity source at all, not even a good flashlight battery stash, no emergency radios at all, no stored water, no emergency medical kit, etc. I think that's silly. So many people might have a big screen TV and go to ball games and bars and spend loot on junk food and beer (and drugs), etc, but won't drop pernny-one on some sane modest and useful preps. Even in an apartment you can store some fair amount of stuff with some judicious planning and adding a few more shelves. Just canned and dry goods under the bed can give people weeks of emergency food and water if they just did it. A good marine trolling battery and a small trickle charger is under one hundred dollars at *mart, and easy enough to be kept topped off and left in a closet say.
As to flooded lead acid being a pain, I never found it so. I used to maintain the dual battery banks (36 deep cycle total) for a fairly large array, it didn't take too long once a month to top them all off with distilled water, which I made with a solar thermal panel water distiller. and these were batteries that were used heavily, one n storage mode is pretty simple to maintain. And for that matter, the more expensive gas mat gels require about zip in the way of maintenance.
If batteries aren't used at all, even a once every three months trickle charge is way more than adequate. Someone who can't do that...I ain't got a lot of sympathy for when it comes to the "help me" part. Comes a time joe citizen has to do something for themselves and not rely on the nanny state or someone else.
As to the fragile panels, I know the unisolars are tough as nails, so are the siemens panels. They'll work even if shot through with a bullet. Some of the others are sorta wimpy in the frame department I admit, just got to shop around.
The US is a *rich* nation. If we had spent one tenth since the 70s on gettng solar and wind out there to individual homeowners and businesses (with long range tax credits for instance) as we have spent so far in the iraq war we would already be well towards the eventual goal of total energy self sufficiency. We just mostly mass-spend our loot on things that require energy, rather than produce it, and rely on that fragile external grid system which inevitably fails right when you need it the most. I think we should have equal numbers of both, centralized grid, and decentralzed on-site generation. We already done built and run the grid, so now let us add to decentralization. It's also better for national s
The last thing I would recommend is putting together a system yourself from what you've learned from these sites. Solar systems tend to be bulky (deep cycle batteries are incredibly heavy as are the large guage cables needed for the low voltage/high current), fragile (think about carting around window panes), and can be difficult for others to undestand their operation/maintenance/safety precautions (think about "helpful" people topping off your batteries with tap water instead of de-ionized water, or smoking while opening up your battery box which has accumulated hydrogen).
Finally after all that there are companies that make ruggedized "pods" for just the situation you describe. Check out http://www.powerpod.com/ They make various sized "pods" that are "ruggedized" compact, turn-key solar systems. However, you do still have those fragile solar panels you need to protect during transportation/use.
After a disaster, you need something that's quick to set up, and very reliable. Solar, as altruistic as it sounds, is just going to be a distraction from actually helping people in need. You have to wait for batteries to charge, wait for sunlight, aim the panels...
Why not use a diesel generator? It's cheap, safe to store, proven technology, and can be "solar" if you choose to use bio-fuels. Besides, when you use diesel instead of solar, you'll have something that "just works."
No, I will not work for your startup
Agreed, a small (maybee about 200VA) generator sounds like exactly what you need as it would be easier to transport less fragile and easier to setup than a bunch of solar pannels + regulator + batteries.
There is another posibility though. If your power requirements are low, then it might be worth looking into primary (non-rechargable) batteries. Primary cells have a much higher energy density than rechargables so if the intention is to only need to run your kit for a few days then it should be something to look into.
Um, wow. That's a singularly _bad idea_ for any sort of mobile setup. Hell, it's not even all that hot for a sustained setup, unless you're making ethanol frequently and stockpiling it.
First off... $1,500 for a still? You're either running several stills, or a REALLY large and expensive one. Or maybe you just opted for gold piping. You can make a workable reflux still for under $200.
Secondly... Corn is one of the most asstastic ethanol crops around. Seriously. Unless you live in Iowa, or elsewhere in the corn belt, where the stuff is EVERYWHERE, you can probably find something better to use. If you're growing it yourself, you'll want something more efficient. You still won't be able to last a long time on what you can grow, anyway.
SVO is a much better solution, IMO. No, you won't be producing it, but the effort involved in filtering it is less than distilling ethanol by far. Getting WVO is pretty easy, and if you happen to drive a diesel car, then it wouldn't be a huge issue to keep 3-4 30 or 55 gallon drums on hand and cycle them. Once a month you go out and gather oil from your sources, start filtering it. Fill a drum. Take precautions to make sure it doesn't go rancid in the near future. Use the oldest drum as your filling supply for the car.
Hurricane hits? Well, make sure your drums are secure, and that your generator setup is protected. You have enough fuel there for quite a while, and rigging a generator to run on SVO should be about the same as rigging a car engine. Just make sure you heat the oil. If you run out of fuel, switching back to regular diesel won't be an issue at all, unlike a lot of ethanol/gas setups. It's also a hell of a lot more portable than your idea, and a lot more workable when things are actually broken. I wouldn't want to be gathering my oil after a hurricane, though...
If you're looking for longer term supplies for being off the grid (which the OP isn't), wind, solar, and hydro are good choices (depending on where you are). You'll need a battery bank for power storage overnight and lull periods, and a generator setup for high power loads and long-term lulls is always a good idea, as well.
Fill in your four or five-letter word of wisdom here _ _ _ _ _.
MANDATORY RENEWABLE ENERGY - THE ENERGY EVOLUTION -R6 In order to insure energy and economic independence as well as better economic growth without being blackmailed by foreign countries, our country, the United States of America's Utilization of Energy sources must change. "Energy drives our entire economy." We must protect it. "Let's face it, without energy the whole economy and economic society we have set up would come to a halt. So you want to have control over such an important resource that you need for your society and your economy." The American way of life is not negotiable. Our continued dependence on fossil fuels could and will lead to catastrophic consequences. The federal, state and local government should implement a mandatory renewable energy installation program for residential and commercial property on new construction and remodeling projects with the use of energy efficient material, mechanical systems, appliances, lighting, etc. The source of energy must by renewable energy such as Solar-Photovoltaic, Geothermal, Wind, Biofuels, etc. including utilizing water from lakes, rivers and oceans to circulate in cooling towers to produce air conditioning and the utilization of proper landscaping to reduce energy consumption. The implementation of mandatory renewable energy could be done on a gradual scale over the next 10 years. At the end of the 10 year period all construction and energy use in the structures throughout the United States must be 100% powered by renewable energy. In addition, the governments must impose laws, rules and regulations whereby the utility companies must comply with a fair "NET METERING" (the buying of excess generation from the consumer), including the promotion of research and production of "renewable energy technology" with various long term incentives and grants. The various foundations in existence should be used to contribute to this cause. A mandatory time table should also be established for the automobile industry to gradually produce an automobile powered by renewable energy. The American automobile industry is surely capable of accomplishing this task. This is a way to expedite our energy independence and economic growth. (This will also create a substantial amount of new jobs). It will take maximum effort and a relentless pursuit of the private, commercial and industrial government sectors commitment to renewable energy - energy generation (wind, solar, hydro, biofuels, geothermal, energy storage (fuel cells, advance batteries), energy infrastructure (management, transmission) and energy efficiency (lighting, sensors, automation, conservation) in order to achieve our energy independence. Jay Draiman Northridge, CA. 91325 1-10-2007 P.S. I have a very deep belief in America's capabilities. Within the next 10 years we can accomplish our energy independence, if we as a nation truly set our goals to accomplish this. I happen to believe that we can do it. In another crisis--the one in 1942--President Franklin D. Roosevelt said this country would build 60,000 [50,000] military aircraft. By 1943, production in that program had reached 125,000 aircraft annually. They did it then. We can do it now. The American people resilience and determination to retain the way of life is unconquerable and we as a nation will succeed in this endeavor of Energy Independence. Solar energy is the source of all energy on the earth (excepting volcanic geothermal). Wind, wave and fossil fuels all get their energy from the sun. Fossil fuels are only a battery which will eventually run out. The sooner we can exploit all forms of Solar energy (cost effectively or not against dubiously cheap FFs) the better off we will all be. If the battery runs out first, the survivors will all be living like in the 18th century again. Every new home built should come with a solar package. A 1.5 kW per bedroom is a good rule of thumb. The formula 1.5 X's 5 hrs per day X's 30 days will produce about 225 kWh per bedroom monthly. This peak production period will offset 17 to 24 cents per kWh with a