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Massachusetts Looks To Jack Thompson for Game Law

Game Politics is carrying the news that the state of Massachusetts is asking Jack Thompson for help in drafting a piece of videogaming related legislation. The bill aims to block minors from purchasing games which fall under one of these categories: "Depicts violence in a manner patently offensive to prevailing standards in the adult community, so as to appeal predominantly to the morbid interest in violence of minors. Is patently contrary to prevailing standards of adults in the county where the offense was committed as to suitable material for such minors. Lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value for minors." The bill has strong backing in the state, from mayors all the way up to state senators.

27 of 117 comments (clear)

  1. Rephrased Miller Test by sqlrob · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Already thrown out multiple times. This will be tossed on the junk heap with all the others.

    1. Re:Rephrased Miller Test by vandon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value for minors."
      Considering what the NEA considers "art", then every video game *IS* art and this law is doomed to be struck down. Yet again, wasting taxpayer money and judicial resources.

    2. Re:Rephrased Miller Test by smallfries · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They've gone about this entirely the wrong way. There is something to be said for limiting the sale of violent games to kids - but it's the same thing that needs to be said about violent movies, music and other forms of media. If they'd had the balls to go for consistent censorship of content according to violence ... then it would still have been thrown out. But at least they would have had some moral authority when they lost, rather than their dubious claims that games require special treatment, and as a market side-effect they want to censor the games available to adults.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    3. Re:Rephrased Miller Test by shaitand · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "There is something to be said for limiting the sale of violent games to kids."

      I would have to disagree here and this one comment can be used to fill in the blanks for other posts I might have made under this story. I do not believe censorship is a good thing. I believe that restricting, limiting, or altering the view children have of the world only serves to retard their mental development. Just because a parent has been brainwashed into a make believe moral caste (in part) by this method is no reason to allow them to impact the next generation in the same way. And if I don't think parents should be permitted to damage the minds of their children in this manner then I obviously don't support politicians doing it.

      Some argue children don't understand the content. True, children don't understand anything without exposure, all the more reason to expose them. Perhaps children aren't mature enough to handle it. True, nobody is mature enough to handle it until they have been exposed to it and there is no justification for hindering or retarding the maturation of a human being so they can enjoy ignorant bliss for a prolonged period of time. Further, if exposing children to the reality of life causes desensitization then maybe, just maybe humans are only sensitive to these issues because they have been brainwashed into a fairy tale sense of morality. Who says it is bad to not feel the need to gasp in shock when one sees death and violence? If that is real life then why should we be afraid of or shocked by it? Perhaps that lack of morality is only shocking to you because you were brainwashed as a child and perhaps that isn't a good thing?

      P.S. When I said you, I really mean anyone who feels however I implied, not that all of that actually applies to the parent I am responding to.

    4. Re:Rephrased Miller Test by smallfries · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Shame you got moderated troll for this post. I disagree with what you've said, but you've made some interesting and thoughful points. Typical abuse of the slashdot moderation system.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
  2. Seriously? by realinvalidname · · Score: 3, Funny

    First Mitt Romney, now this? Massachusetts, you used to be cool, but now y'all have a lot to answer for.

    1. Re:Seriously? by Smidge204 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe it's like... Jack Thompson is the guy you go to when you want to know what not to do, y'know? Like they'll take anything he proposes and do the exact opposite.

      (One can only hope...)
      =Smidge=

    2. Re:Seriously? by Hercynium · · Score: 3, Interesting
      First Mitt Romney, now this? Massachusetts, you used to be cool, but now y'all have a lot to answer for.
      As a life-long resident of MA I am dumbfounded.

      I repeatedly hear people crying sighs of relief, "Now that Romney's out and we can start again..." Yet, I completely fail to understand what he did wrong.

      Indeed, he came into the governor's office as a republican after a long spell of mis-management and gross ineptitude by his predecessors of the same party. At the same time, his term spanned the same period that a republican president and congress have totally f*cked up on an immense scale.

      Yet, despite the failings of Mitt's political party, he has run the office of governor as a consummate executive. His agenda was made clear prior to the election, and has been consistently pursued, with remarkable results given the opposition. While having shown an admirable ability to compromise, just as admirable has been his intolerance of ineptitude, waste, and inefficiency. For both the state budget and our overall economic health, his policies and leadership have stemmed the arterial bleeding and we are currently on the mend.

      I do not begrudge Mr. Romney's presidential ambitions. Even with that on his agenda for possibly his whole gubernatorial term, I have been singularly impressed with his performance.

      Despite all this, the voters in Massachusetts have elected someone who appears to be the opposite of Mr. Romney in every way. From his eloquent parries to avoid taking positions on a multitude of political topics to his questionable political backers, not to mention his complete lack of executive experience, the man we elected our new governor seems to *me* to be the one who is 'uncool'.

      Of course, I base my judgments of 'coolness' on facts, track records, plans, and common sense. However is is quite evident that most other citizens of this state prefer youthful ideology and a perfect salesman's smile.

      One last thing, just to say something on-topic... Deval Patrick was given and borrowed a *lot* of money to run his campaign. I have read that Microsoft has already made successful appeals to his administration. I suspect that Mr. Thompson smells an opportunity as well.
      --
      I'm done with sigs. Sigs are lame.
    3. Re:Seriously? by Reverberant · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yet, I completely fail to understand what he did wrong.

      Another life long MA residents here (one who has spent 2/3 of my residency in the western part of the state). Here's a few things off the top of my head:

      • Spending 212 days away from the state he was supposed to be governing in 2006.
      • Joking about the state instead of lobbying for it.
      • Claimed his policies resulted in a $1 billion budget surplus, only to tell us after the election it's actually a $1 billion deficit
      • Pretty much ignored the western half of the state, (including only marketing the eastern half of the state to prospective employers, and letting them go to other states/countries instead of lobbying for CMass/WMass when EMass proved to be unsuitable) except for...
      • Installing a state-run control board in Springfield who's primary goal seemed to be the breaking of unions rather than quality services; that's not to say that the CB wasn't needed, it was - but clearly their first priority seemed to be implementing Romney's ideals (teacher merit pay anyone?) rather than "compromising" with city officials and workers.

      IME, most people outside of 495 aren't sorry to see him go...

    4. Re:Seriously? by Asmor · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe I can put it in perspective a bit... I'm 22 years old, and I've only really started following politics in the last couple years when I started listening to NPR and watching The Daily Show. Feel free to make fun of me/ignore me as appropriate based on those two primary sources for keeping up.

      Anyways, my point is that I have no idea what the political landscape was like even 4 years ago, aside from Dubya being in office (don't blame me! I voted Kodos/strike> Badnarik. I especially don't know what Massachusetts politics is like, as most of what I follow is national interest kind of stuff. I only know aout Romney because he's been in the news a lot lately.

      From what I understand, he's basically done a major flip-flop. I don't know if it's true, but from what I've heard it sounds like he used to be pro gay marriage. From anecdotal evidence, it certainly seems like Massachusetts is a very gay-friendly state, but then again I don't have much exposure apart from the Boston and North Shore areas. Therefore, his attack on gay marriage seems to be not just a flip-flop, but in fact a turn against what his constituents want, in a blatant attempt to curry favor with the nation at large at the expense of his home state for a white house run in '08.

      Anyways, this is just the image I've been given of the situation from my liberally-biased sources, so think of it what you will. I don't pretend that this is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but it's what I've come to understand as a reasonable facsimile thereof.

      Oh, and before I get labelled as a liberal nutjob, I'd like to consider myself more centrist. Anti-corporation, pro-small business, anti-pork, pro-(well spent) taxes, etc. Only current potential '08 candidate I like is McCain.

  3. Sounds fine by Dan+Slotman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They are minors, and minors don't particularly need to be playing offensive games. If their parents don't have a problem with it, then the parent can easily purchase the game for their child.

    I offer the same advice as Penny Arcade. Work at it for a while. It just takes time. Practice showing some maturity. Given a few years of practice--how old are you? 12?--Let's say about 6 years of practice, and you can play these games too!

    1. Re:Sounds fine by XenoRyet · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You're right. The concept is sound. Minors don't need to be playing excessively violent or otherwise offensive games.

      The problem comes in how the law is worded. It needs to be crafted in such a way that it doesn't put unreasonable expectations on retailers, and doesn't indirectly infringe on an adult's right to acquire these games. Traditionally, government is not so good at filling those two requirements.

      Personally, I really don't see why the ESRB can't work like the voluntary movie rating system. I don't think any more kids get their hands on M rated games than see R rated movies, and that hasn't proved to be a severe determent to society. Really, we don't have this type of legislation for any other type of media, what about video games is so different that we need it here?

      --
      If forums teach us anything, it is that logic and critical thinking should be required courses in the public schools.
    2. Re:Sounds fine by kennygraham · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They ask for id where I grew up such that I was unable to purchase rated-R tickets myself. I could go were I to have an adult with me to purchase the tickets. I feel the same premise would work for video games.

      That may not be the standard everywhere else but I'm not overly traveled.

      Because of company policy, and because the movie industry would take away some privileges if they didn't. They weren't required by law to check your ID. The fact that pretty much every theater in the united states has that policy is proof that you don't need it written in law.

  4. Lacks value? by SoCalChris · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value for minors.
    Hitler agrees. Let's burn all the games we don't agree with.

    On another note, doesn't that describe just about every kids show on TV now? What literary, artistic, political or scientific value does "Mickey Mouse Clubhouse" or "The Doodlebops" have? No one is trying to ban those (Unfortunately).

    /Godwined?
    1. Re:Lacks value? by bockelboy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value for minors.

      The question here is who does the burden of proof fall under? Does the government have to show, for every game they want to block, there is *no* serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value anywhere in the game for minors? That covers large swaths of human existence (Art is particularly broad; I'd argue that Bully can be argued as an artistic portrayal of childhood, given expensive enough lawyers) Or does the publisher have to prove that there is *serious* value in one of these categories?

      Read one way, and it means that the government would have to do serious work in order to block even a single game. Read another way, it would mean that the game publishers would have to go through a lot of work to publish any game.

      Hopefully it is the latter (burden of proof on the publishers). I'm no lawyer, but I think there's plenty of precedent showing that the burden of proof must lay on the government in the restriction of the First Amendment. That would mean this law would get thrown out all the quicker.
  5. Exercise in futility? by PingSpike · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hasn't the supreme court tossed out everyone of the laws passed in states that old Jackie boy worked on?

    Maybe thats why they want his help, so they can make sure that it gets thrown out. That way they can say they tried to 'fix the problem' and then blame it on the federal government.

  6. Excellent Idea by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think this is an excellent idea. Any input by Jack Thompson will be so over-the-top loony that it will be doomed from the start. Getting him involved with anything pretty much guarantees failure.

    --
    Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
  7. Poor saps... by Captain+Sarcastic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Which saps? Well, there are a few:

    1) The politicians who are going to back Thompson's ideas, because the legislation that they will craft will end up getting tossed into the compost heap by the courts, leaving them looking useless;

    2) The court judges who are going to have to listen to Thompson's drivel as he tries to support the bill;

    3) The voters of Massachusetts, who are going to wonder, with all of the things that need doing, why their elected officials are politically grandstanding with this nonsense.

    Groups 2 and 3 I have sympathy for. Group 1... sorry, I've used up my sympathy supply.

    --
    Strike while the irony is hot! -- The Freethinker
  8. Making this too difficult? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Blocking sales to minors...

    OK. Harsh and enforced penalties to retailers for selling said games to minors. And properly educate parents and other adults about the rating system for games and that it would become their responsibility if their child does something stupid after playing a game they shouldn't be playing b/c mommy and daddy chose to ignore ratings and purchase the game anyways.

    And I'd like to see no liability to the retailer or game publisher if parents or other family members choose to ignore that rating and purchase the game for a minor. That's the crap that gets me every time. "Ya, I shouldn't have bought it for him, but it's your fault for making it! Duh!"

  9. Don't Do It Deval! by blueZhift · · Score: 2

    I sincerely hope that the new governor, Deval Patrick, will not choose to waste the taxpayers' money on legislation which has failed at each and every turn. There are so many more pressing problems and quite honestly, the elections are over, what upside could the governor see in signing such a bill if it were to make it to his desk. Just say no Deval!

  10. Video/computer games & Laws by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why would any special laws be needed for video/computer games? I can think of no reason. Any "content neutral" laws (say, against defamation) already exist and do not need to be re-passed to make them applicable to video/computer games. There is no reason for making special laws for video/computer games. And there is no difference, so far as regulating content, between a book and a computer/video game.

    But that won't stop the theocrats, like Jack Thompson, from trying.

  11. Since when by monkeypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value for minors.

    Since when has Jack Thompson claimed that ANY game has literary, artistic, political, or scientific value?

  12. Jack Thompson's Response by plaisted · · Score: 2
    Jack Thompson's response:
    Your "news" story about the Massachusetts video game bill is utterly flawed. do you journalist wannabes EVER talk to an original source, or do you just quoting other pro-gaming sites? this is ridiculous!

    Jack Thompson, Attorney
    -source
  13. Enjoy those civil rights lawsuits, Mass! by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I guess you guys must have a lot of extra tax money to blow on attorneys fees, huh?

    -Eric

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  14. This is just a codification of the Miller Test by Pluvius · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test

    The Supreme Court has been using this test for decades to determine whether or not a work is obscene. If a work doesn't pass the test, it can be banned from sale not only to minors, but to anyone in the United States. But very rarely does a work not pass the test, since the SLAPS test ("serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value") has been affirmed to allow even pornography. This law will do nothing to video-game sales.

    Rob

  15. Re:Correlation and not causation by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Actually, the video game industry is not paying their fair share to the political parties. Microsoft, for example, didn't pay a dime to the politicians until the anti-trust lawsuit convinced them otherwise that they would have fewer problems if they paid the politicians. Whenever there's a large amount of money being made, the politicians want their hush money.

  16. Do these people live in an alternate reality... by pembo13 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    where real life is not violent? And the last place were violence exists is in video games? Because I can understand detesting violence, but video game violence should be the least of their worries. Have they ever watched National Geography Channel and see a squad of hornets wipe out what is essentially a entire civilization of honey bees?

    --
    "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft