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Netscape Dumps Critical File, Breaks RSS 0.9 Feeds
An anonymous reader writes "In the standard definition of RSS 0.91, there are a couple of lines referring to 'DOCTYPE' and referencing a 'dtd' spec hosted on Netscape's website. According to an article on DeviceForge.com quite a few RSS feeds around the web probably stopped working properly over the past few weeks because Netscape recently stopped hosting the critical rss-0.91.dtd file. Probably someone over at netscape.com simply thought he was cleaning up some insignificant cruft." Some explanation has been offered by a Netscape employee.
I don't see how this would break RSS readers. DTDs pretty much never get read except by validators. Normal SGML and XML parsers just treat the DTD URL as an opaque string, not as something that can be retrieved.
But DTD's were designed to be precisely that. Likewise class paths in java.
Unnecessary hard coding of something that's not necessarily non-ephemeral.
I never liked the idea, I'm glad to see that some of my worries are well-founded.
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
A lot of rss readers can't parse a custom dtd, they assume that rss is pretty much fixed, and ignore the dtd line completely.
Whenever someone accesses a RSS file, Netscape would know the IP for every access? How stupid can that be? Why don't the readers just cache the DTDs and fetch only if there's a problem?
It is expected that DTDs are hotlinked. For example, if you ever look at html source of a web page, you would see: on the top, and the hotlink goes to somewhere on w3.org. That is because W3 is the authority body that defines the html.
Since Netscape is the authority body that defines RSS 0.91, it is a bit strange how they stopped hosting the definition.
In any case, the missing definition won't affect software that processes RSS feeds. It only affects software that checks whether a SGML document is structured properly according to that missing DTD.
The main interest to this article seems to be the speculation how a deprecated web 1.0 company could end up hiring a clueless webmaster who deletes important files without recognizing its importance.
I once had a signature.
This blast is not squarely aimed at you, but you triggered it. Treat this in the spirit it is meant please (if I didn't give a crap at all, I wouldn't comment. Show this to your insulated bosses who don't know the first thing about community and transparency. Kudos to you BTW for showing initiative and acting on a Slashdot post. Honestly, I would not have given the "new Netscape" that much credit.).
:-)
>I only wish that someone had brought it to our attention so that I didn't have to find out about it from Slashdot.
This rankles.
Have you EVER tried contacting Netscape from the outside world? Seriously, I can count the number of times:
*) When my.netscape.com locked out Konqueror (1998?)
*) When my.netscape.com WITHDREW the ability to embed RSS feed on your "my" page -- actually this was PRE-RSS if I recall. Way before it was commonplace, you could embed Slashdot and Linux Today feeds. Then they killed it, presumably because they got enough users or some pointy haired reason. 1999.
*) When my.netscape.com adopted a shitty policy of DELETING all your mail if you don't login for 30 days. This did not seem to be publicised by an actual email. They don't seem to delete the mailbox itself, which violates RFCs I'm sure and basically insinuates the mailbox is active. I lost tons of mail from 1996-2003 (yeah yeah backups. Some things I didn't think I would need later). ?? Happened in 2003. Note that mailboxes were only 5MB still, so I quickly bailed for a 100MB Yahoo account.
*) The 2001 deletion of Netscape Developer. This lost a ton of Netscape copyrighted Javascript documentation.
Just TRY contacting Netscape from their page. The best you can do is use the WRONG FORM to submit to some contracter who won't forward it. Or, oh yeah - there's a 900 number for by the minute Support.
Back when it mattered, there was no 'Google Guy' for Netscape, who would act as an unofficial liason. After Jamie Z left, no one internally tried to fill the shoes of a community facing employee.
While I'll be eternally grateful for Netscape's open sourcing of their browser. What a different world it is now. Too bad that step is something the current management would never have allowed (that's the perception). I can't think of a more opaque Internet company than today's Netscape. I'm sure there are people who disagree or wish it could be changed (you're here..) but that and a $1 gets you a cup of black coffee. Show this to your boss - there are suggestions here
not trying to be a troll here.. but.. one would think that that file would have been accessed quite often and that would have shown up in the logs...
If I was a new hire at some old company where everyone else had been let go, I'd at least check out the logs and see what is being used? and then if some file is being hit 1,000's of times a day.. maybe ask a few questions..
http://www.hawknest.com/
1) Isn't it great that the guy comes on and is open and helpful? There are plenty of organisations could learn from this
/. summary states "quite a few RSS feeds around the web probably stopped working properly" - what; so perhaps none stopped working? Would be great to see a list of ones which actually did.... anyont?
2) I found it amusing that the
Hi, Christopher. First off, full marks for stepping up and explaining things honestly. You have done more good for Netscape than a dozen PR people. I'm sure you'll take a lot of crap from my fellow Slashdotters, but don't let it throw you. Listen to and acknowledge their legitimate complaints and you'll do fine.
I only wish that someone had brought it to our attention so that I didn't have to find out about it from Slashdot.
If you are looking to learn a lesson from this, how about this one: URLs are forever!
Whenever I make a change to a live server, my biggest concern is to not break existing usage. If I ever change an URL, I make sure to redirect old usage to new usage that's just as good. And if I'm ever not sure something is used, I generally look back at least three months in the logs. Especially if you've inherited a pile full of mystery, good analytical tools for your server logs are vital. Trying to run even a modestly-sized site without them is like running a large store without tracking your inventory: your life will become a series of unfortunate surprises.
Referencing the other topic today...
You mean to tell me that every RSS reader references - and actually tries to FIND and DOWNLOAD - a specific SPECIFICATION hosted on ONE SITE ON THE PLANET?
Are you people utter fucking morons or what?
I can't believe design decisions like this.
I'm especially irritated because I have just spent the last week trying to find an rdiff-backup or rsync that functions on Windows WITHOUT A FUCKING 2GB or 4GB FILE SIZE LIMITATION! Even the Cygwin people could only tell me to "try it"...How about putting it in the fucking FAQ what the file size limits are?!
We HAVE LARGE FUCKING FILES THESE DAYS, MORONS!! We've HAD THEM FOR FIVE YEARS!!
Oh, nobody can be bothered to support librsync anymore...right...
Only Fedora Core 5 bothered to patch it so rdiff-backup can handle large files...
Backup isn't "sexy" like 3D wobbly windows, so nobody cares...
Chimpanzees. Jesus Baron von Fucking Christ!
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!