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The Trouble with Physics

SpaceAdmiral writes "You've likely heard of Lee Smolin's book The Trouble with Physics. It has created a lot of controversy because it argues that string theory gets far too much attention and money, despite a complete lack of evidence. It accuses string theorists of groupthink. Smolin has dabbled in string theory from time to time but he's a proponent of the alternative loop quantum gravity. Although irrelevant to this book review, he has also suggested that it is possible that universes reproduce via black holes, making them prone to pressure similar to natural selection (universes that produce a lot of black holes are more successful spawners than those that don't). In The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins quotes Nobel-winner Murray Gell-Mann as once saying, "Smolin? Is he that young guy with those crazy ideas? He may not be wrong."" Read the rest of SpaceAdmiral's review. The Trouble with Physics author Lee Smolin pages 392pp publisher Houghton Mifflin Company rating 9 reviewer Fane Henderson ISBN 0618551050 summary The Rise of String Theory, the Fall of a Science, and What Comes Next

The Trouble with Physics is very unlike most pop-physics books not only in its criticism of string theory, but in its open adulation of Einstein and skepticism of the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory. Having said that, it does provide a very decent summary of 20th century physics (including string theory) for laypeople, not unlike more traditional pop-physics books (e.g. by Hawking and Greene).

The book's main criticisms of string theory are that it makes no testable predictions and that some things string theorists take for granted haven't been rigorously proven mathematically. Smolin is highly skeptical of many string theorists' reliance on the Anthropomorphic Principle.

The book becomes most interesting somewhere in the middle where he discuses truly controversial approaches to physics. This includes things like MOND, which, interestingly enough, Smolin is skeptical of.

In case you've forgotten your high-school physics, I'm going to use this paragraph to refresh your memory of special relativity to prepare you for the next couple paragraphs. The basic idea of special relativity is that the speed of light is constant. Pretend that I am shining a light at you while (A) standing still relative to you; (B) moving towards you at half the speed of light, and; (C) moving away from you at half the speed of light. In all three scenarios, I will accurately measure the light moving away from me at 3,000,000 km/s and you will accurately measure the light moving toward you at 3,000,000 km/s. To ensure this result, distances and times will have to be different for me than they are for you, except in case (A).

Now I'll quickly remind you of the Planck length: This is a theoretical limit on how small something can be. According to Smolin, all versions of quantum gravity seem to suggest the Planck length as a limit. But would observers moving relative to each other disagree about the Planck length?

I used to be a big fan of MOND (in a layperson sense) until Smolin introduced me to DSR (doubly special relativity) and DSR II. The basic idea is that it may be possible to modify the theories of relativity such that observers agree not only on a constant speed of light, but also on a constant Planck length. It's not unreasonable to guess that a modification of this sort could solve some of the same problems MOND does (e.g. explain astronomical observations without resorting to dark matter and dark energy). Furthermore, since DSR in its current incarnation predicts that more energetic photons are slightly faster than less energetic photons (only the speed of the least energetic photons is constant in DSR), it could also explain away, for example, inflation in the Big Bang model. (Immediately after the Big Bang, everything was hotter and more energetic, so the average speed of light would have been faster than it is now if DSR is correct.) Although I'm not qualified to judge the actual mathematics of such a theory, I find it very appealing for reasons of consilience.

I was slightly disappointed with the final chapters of Smolin's book since, despite an obvious effort to the contrary, it struck me as awfully bitter and reeked of sour grapes. Leaving physics in favor of sociology, he lambasted the current tenure and peer review systems (particularly in the United States) as favoring Master Craftspeople (like those scientists who developed the standard model of particle physics) over Seers (like Einstein, Bohr, and de Broglie) who look at the deep questions of physics that border on the philosophical rather than the latest technical problem. A few interesting things do emerge in these chapters. One such thing is that Smolin seems to have a soft spot for Paul Feyerabend as a philosopher of science (despite describing himself as a proud Popperazzo in an endnote). Another is that Smolin thinks a scientist who is hated by half his senior colleagues and loved by the other half is likely better than a scientist who is liked by all his senior colleagues. I strongly recommend this book.

You can purchase The Trouble with Physics from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

62 of 373 comments (clear)

  1. Two sides by 2.7182 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I see two sides to this. Smolin has a point. Most string theory papers are garbage. (True of many fields). But Smolin himself has not been research active in a long time. And it is unlikely that he understands enough mathematics to judge string theory - like most people.

    1. Re:Two sides by gardyloo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Smolin himself has not been research active in a long time. And it is unlikely that he understands enough mathematics to judge string theory - like most people.


            Not sure what you mean by "research active". His contributions to xarchiv (many published in hack journals like Physical Review and The Journal of Quantum Gravity) are prolific as recently as 2006 and 2004 (noticeable lack of submissions in 2005). And I would NOT call him mathematically illiterate, even in an "esoteric" field like string theory. (Yes, I am a physicist.)

  2. The real trouble with this physics is that by roman_mir · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.

    Although irrelevant to this book review, he has also suggested that it is possible that universes reproduce via black holes, making them prone to pressure similar to natural selection (universes that produce a lot of black holes are more successful spawners than those that don't). doesn't the same despite a complete lack of evidence quote apply to this just as well?

    1. Re:The real trouble with this physics is that by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 4, Funny

      His theory is full of holes.

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
  3. Anthropomorphic Principle? by tylersoze · · Score: 5, Informative

    Really? I didn't realize giving human characteristics to subatomic particles was a part of any current mainstream physics theory. :) I'm assume you mean the *anthropic* principle.

    1. Re:Anthropomorphic principle? by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 4, Funny
      No, the Anthropomorphic Principle is:
      Don't talk about the Universe as if it was a person... It hates that.


      OK, so it's an obvious joke. Sue me.
      --
      Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
    2. Re:Anthropomorphic Principle? by Timesprout · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hey sub atomic particles have feelings too you know. Even though we are time sensitive, we like to get to know one another over a drink or dinner and not be smashed into each other in cyclotrons.

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    3. Re:Anthropomorphic Principle? by iggymanz · · Score: 4, Funny

      I've got a neutron here that wants to kick your ass for saying that.

    4. Re:Anthropomorphic Principle? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You've never heard of up quarks? They're on a 24-hour high. Pity their poor brothers the down quarks though, life sucks and they want to kill themselves. Then you've got the strange quarks, they're just a bit weird, keep them away from your kids. The charm quarks are great to talk to. And last we've got the top and bottom quarks - well, they are consenting adults and what happens in the privacy of their own home is none of our business ;)

  4. Accurate? by Whalou · · Score: 5, Informative
    In all three scenarios, I will accurately measure the light moving away from me at 3,000,000 km/s and you will accurately measure the light moving toward you at 3,000,000 km/s.

    Not very accurate. It should be 300,000 km/s. Or 299,792.458 km/s to be precise.
    --
    English is not this .sig mother tongue...
  5. Correction by 2.7182 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Smolin is research active, but I seriously doubt he understands what Ed Witten did in the 1990's, for example.

  6. Okay, maybe I'm feeling humorous, but... by zappepcs · · Score: 2, Funny

    did he write this book using 12 sided dice and a lot of caffeine?

  7. I think you meant "Anthropic" by olclops · · Score: 5, Informative
    Smolin is highly skeptical of many string theorists' reliance on the Anthropomorphic Principle.
    That's the Anthropic Principle: the idea that the constants we observe in this universe which are ostensibly crucial for the formation of life, are that way because if they were any other way we wouldn't be here to observe them.
    1. Re:I think you meant "Anthropic" by flyingsquid · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hrm, is their a Misanthropic Principle? That the physical constants of the universe are the way they are to make our lives miserable?

    2. Re:I think you meant "Anthropic" by hehman · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, he did indeed mean the Anthropomorphic Principle, the one where strings act like people. Smolin is right to be highly skeptical of string theorists' reliance on yarn finger puppets to do serious research.

    3. Re:I think you meant "Anthropic" by complete+loony · · Score: 2, Funny

      How about a lycanthropic principal? That if the physical constants were changed we would transform into something else?

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
  8. Universes and Universal Turing Machines by Baldrson · · Score: 3, Interesting
    An hypothesized (meta)algorithm running our universe has been proposed in "The New AI: General & Sound & Relevant for Physics" by Jürgen Schmidhuber of Dalle Molle Institute for Artificial Intelligence:
    "Systematically create and execute all programs for a universal computer, such as a Turing machine or a CA; the first program is run for one instruction every second step on average, the next for one instruction every second of the remaining steps on average, and so on."
    This actually computes all universes -- not just ours. It also computes what might be thought of as nested universes, giving rise to the idea promoted by Smolin that some universes might be more prolific than others. Among the consequences of this hypothesis is:
    "Large scale quantum computation will not work well, essentially because it would require too many exponentially growing computational resources in interfering 'parallel universes'".
    Prof. Schmidhuber's post-doc student, Marcus Hutter, of Hutter Prize for Lossless Compression of Human Knowledge fame came up with some of the key breakthroughs in "The New AI" upon which Schmidhuber's hypothesis is based.
  9. actually by giampy · · Score: 4, Informative

    A quick search on arxiv.org will show you that he is indeed very active, since he is still publishing very technical papers.
    Not only that, Lee Smolin seems one of the very very few physicists who understands BOTH string theory AND other approaches (that is _the_ other approach, loop quantum gravity).

    In any case, it seems that many predictions of loop quantum gravity will be actually tested within the next couple of years trough the GLAST satellite, so, we will get news relatively soon ...

    --
    We learn from history that we learn nothing from history - Tom Veneziano
  10. Six Degrees to Richard Dawkins by nhavar · · Score: 4, Interesting
    What does this have to do with the book, string theory, or anything else for that matter?

    In The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins quotes Nobel-winner Murray Gell-Mann as once saying, "Smolin? Is he that young guy with those crazy ideas? He may not be wrong."


    Why is it that suddenly people are working out ways to mention Dawkins in as many articles as they can that have little if nothing to do with him? Are we playing a six-degrees-to-Richard-Dawkins game here?
    --
    "Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
    1. Re:Six Degrees to Richard Dawkins by samoverton · · Score: 3, Funny

      In nhavar's quote, nhavar quotes slashdot editors who posted a story, in which Richard Dawkins was quoted as writing that Nobel-winner Murray Gell-Mann once said, "Smolin? Is he that young guy with those crazy ideas? He may not be wrong."

    2. Re:Six Degrees to Richard Dawkins by nizo · · Score: 2, Funny
      Smolin? Is he that young guy with those crazy ideas? He may not be wrong.


      I think the point being made here is that todays nutjob is often tomorrows nobel winner. Besides you don't get to hear much from Richard ever since he left Family Feud.


      (Yeah I am just kidding, I know it is Richard Dawson who is of Family Feud fame)

  11. Fan of Heim, myself by Valdrax · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I used to be a big fan of MOND (in a layperson sense) until Smolin introduced me to DSR (doubly special relativity) and DSR II.

    Personally, I've been a fan of Heim theory, not necessarily because I think it's definitely true even though it makes nice predictions about particle mass, but because I just really want a space drive to be possible.

    --
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  12. Maybe quantum theory is wrong too... by SpinyNorman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There's an interesting article in the last issue of New Scientist, discussing work by physicist Gerard 't Hooft in refining his theory of a determanistic level of reality below quantum physiscs, from which the apparent randomness and Copenhagen state collape of quantum physics appears.

    http://www.newscientist.com/channel/fundamentals/m g19025504.000

    Maybe Einstein was right that "God doesn't play dice" (a rather misunderstood statement given that Einstein was an ardent aetheist).

    Presumably efforts such as string theory to unite general relativity & quantum mechanics may be quite shaken up if this new theory is correct.

    1. Re:Maybe quantum theory is wrong too... by 2short · · Score: 2, Informative


      Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle says it's impossible to know both the position and velocity of a particle; and particularly that increasing the precision whith which you know one will decrease the precision with which you know the other. It is related to, but not quite the same as, the assertion of quantum mechanics that at the smallest scales, reality is not deterministic.

      Einstein thought this risiculous, as expressed in the famous quote, but most physicists now beleive he was wrong.

      Either position is clearly saying quite a lot about Fate, God and Free-will!

    2. Re:Maybe quantum theory is wrong too... by Deviant+Q · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Bell Inequality rules out local counterfactually definite hidden variable theories. Nonlocal theories in particular are quite doable, and David Bohm worked on those for a long time before he died. I've been reading some of his books (but not scientific papers), and they seem fairly reasonable; however, I think they fall in to the "not mainstream enough to take seriously" category.

      I don't know what 't Hooft's theory is though.

      On another note, I've written a paper on why the Bell Inequality does not falsify local counterfactually definite hidden variable theories, but I'm 95 % sure my conclusions must be based on some kind of misunderstanding because I can't have been the first person to see this.

      --
      "May the days be aimless. Let the seasons drift. Do not advance the action according to a plan."
    3. Re:Maybe quantum theory is wrong too... by kestasjk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The quote you're referring to is "God does not roll dice" - Einstein, but your mention of God worries me because Einstein wasn't referring to a supernatural God but using God as a label for the way the universe ticks. (This was discussed at length in Dawkin's book mentioned above actually)

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
  13. Scientists Incorrectly Though To Be Perfect by ranton · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A big problem amongst educated people is to think that scientists are not prone to the same illogical behavior as average people. We think that they are immune to "following the flock" or otherwise being influenced by their peers.

    While scientists are in general better than average people at being objective, they still tend to have their own biases. Spending you life working on a particular theory makes it hard to give it up even when the evidence disproves it. Even an objective scientist is going to have problems throwing away their life's work.

    --

    --
    -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    1. Re:Scientists Incorrectly Though To Be Perfect by rho · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For example, the quote from Gell-Mann in the review's summary. It's an interesting bit of personal history, but has nothing to do with any physics. What Gell-Mann thinks about anybody's physics is utterly irrelevant. By definition the only thing of interest in science is what can be proven. But scientists, being people, will put more weight on one person's opinion over another's for unscientific reasons.

      The scientific method is very good for getting at the reasons behind something, but once you start to worship science as an abstract, you've lost perspective.

      --
      Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
    2. Re:Scientists Incorrectly Though To Be Perfect by Keebler71 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Excellent points... funny how when I raise the same points in a global warming discussion (not that it isn't occurring, just that scientists are human and have biases) ... I get modded down...

      --
      "It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
  14. Vilenkin says... by Cally · · Score: 3, Informative

    Vilenkin has published an interesting paper which suggests a problem with Smolin's "natural selection of life-friendly universes via black holes" theory; OTOH Smolin strikes back! Ahhh, I love it when cosmologists attack ;)

    --
    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
  15. Another Correction by 2.7182 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    OK, so he has a paper on M-Theory, so he probably does understand the latest stuff. But my main point still stands. This is just a thing about who gets to build the bigger empire and get more publicity, power and money. Just like the entertainment industry!

  16. the reason string theory gets money by Gromius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because theres not a lot else in fundamental theoretical particle physics to spend it on. Basically we've reached the point where everything we can test right now is tested and understood and there hasnt been any significant surprises in the last 30 years. Basically the cludge that is the Standard Model works far too well and its completely theoretically worked out. And the theorists are just screwing around with silly things now because they are waiting for experiment to catch up with theory. We hope that this will happen when the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) turns on and that we will find something unexpected. This will give us the clue what to try next theoretically. And as soon as that happens, the theorists interest in string theory will disappear as they will (hopefully) have something new to work on to explain (hopefully) very strange experimental results. Particle physics is either about to go through a golden age in two years time or its going to wither and die.

    1. Re:the reason string theory gets money by Gromius · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Basically we've reached the point where everything we can test right now is tested and understood

      Sorry this is my particle physicist bias coming in. I should have been a bit clearer in my post. Basically everything we can test today that involves a collider has been tested and its all in amazing agreement with the Standard Model. So the theorists are getting a bit bored because there isnt really any clues right now for what to do next. Things like gravity waves and Bs mixing and even the top quark discovery were nice but they only confirmed previous, completely theorically worked out theories which doesnt leave theorists much to do. Hence string theory and to a lesser extend SUSY. You are completely correct that there are non collider based things out there that really do help with things like understanding gravity and that might be the way we find the next new thing if the LHC doesnt find anything.

      With regards to the more we learn about our Universe, the more questions are raised, you are completely right. The Standard Model asks more questions than it solves and its really an adhoc cludge. Why are there 4 seeming unrelated forces? Why are there 3 generations? Why is gravity so weak? The electroweak sector and qcd are completely unrelated in the Standard Model but if quarks dont have 3 colours, electroweak theory doesnt work. However my point was that we havnt had a new theory for a long time and we havent needed one to explain every particle physics observation. Sure we have a few discrepant things like dark matter which is telling us that our current theories probably arent fundamental. But untill we have some dark matter to study, its going to be very hard to use this information to construct a new theory (its really easy to make a dark matter candidate in a theory). The Standard Model is more than 30 years old, general relativity is obviously old. All the theory was worked out ages ago and we still dont require anything more than them. And we havent found an smoking gun to tell us what lies beyond these theories so the theorists are bored and waiting for the experimentalists to point them in the right direction.

      Also as a particle physicist, I also believe that if we dont find something at the LHC (okay two years is harsh, lets say five) to give us a clue or even worse we just find the Higgs and nothing else, its going to be very hard to get funding for experiment beyond the LHC (the linear collider will be a bit pointless if we dont have anything to study with it). And we are going to have to wait many decades before we would be able to build a collider with enough energy to make it worthwhile given that we didnt find anything last time. So particle physics in its current collider based form will die. However as you said, there are other things which are fringe particle physics things which we would probably do instead.

  17. Re:Why string theory is stupid by Coryoth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    On the contrary, string theory is very interesting, and has a great deal of interesting things to say. The issue is more that it is mathematics not physics. There is, of course, nothing wrong with mathematics for its own sake. Indeed, many physics theories were preceeded by the development of purely mathematical work - where would general relativity be without Riemann's work on manifolds for instance? In many ways string theory could be classified in a similar sort of category - it is a lot of very interesting mathematics that could, one day, be applied to the development of a physical theory. The dilemma comes when people act as if it is physics instead of mathematics.

  18. The string theory is overrated by Van+Cutter+Romney · · Score: 2, Funny

    Look how much money the pr0n industry makes.


    ...wait a minute! THAT string theory ... oops!

    --
    Help a man when he is in trouble and he will remember you when he is in trouble again.
  19. How long is a piece of string? by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The real problem I see is that there is no real string. Most physics so far has been based on real things: mass, electrons,... Strings are just a modelling tool.

    As physics progresses we seek for something that was hidden from the previous generation of physics. For example we start with observing gravity happen. 100k years ago (or 6k years ago - depending on your worldview) Ogg drops rock, ogg gets sore toe. Then more recently someone figured out it is because of mass/proximity of objects. Then someone figures out a characterising equation. Then someone else figures it is because space is bent. Then strings. No longer are we improving our observations. Now we're coming out with mathematical models of things that don't really exist.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:How long is a piece of string? by Kandenshi · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "It is wrong to think that the task of physics is to find out how nature is. Physics concerns what we can say about nature." - Niels Bohr

      IMO(and to some other positivists such as Stephen Hawking) it doesn't really matter if something is exactly how that universe IS. It just matters that it allows us to make falsifiable predictions about what we can observe.

    2. Re:How long is a piece of string? by eipipuz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your idea of "real object" is very very strange. Mass?? It's just a characteristic of matter. And an electron is as real as quark, and that doesn't exist by itself! Always in couples or triplets. We are improving our observations, it's just that it isn't visible. Call it measurement. If there are strings, they have ways to interact with us. I won't even bite the "mathematical models of things that don't really exist", because physics is by definition a model, a mathematical model. It's a map about reality.

    3. Re:How long is a piece of string? by The_Wilschon · · Score: 4, Informative

      What do you mean real? Call me back when you see a real electron. Or better yet, when you see a real quark. Superstrings are just as real as either of these. In fact, unless I misunderstand, electrons and quarks would merely be a special case of strings, that is, strings carrying particular vibrational modes.

      Ernst Mach raised precisely this objection against atomic theory. He said that atoms were not real because we could not, and would never be able to, see them. They were just a convenient mathematical model which happened to make reasonable predictions, but they were not actually real. Well, as it turns out, theories which utilize these "unobservable, unreal, mathematical constructs" are often very successful, and, where they have been successful, we have later found ways to observe precisely the objects described.

      So, I would say that strings, if the theory turns out to produce useful, accurate, precise results, are just as real as photons, atoms, rocks, and stars.

      That's not to say I like string theory. I hope string theory doesn't win. I think that it would put us in actually a worse position than the Standard Model has us in right now. The standard model has umpteen different parameters which must be fine tuned by experiment. This is generally regarded as a serious shortcoming, as the values of those parameters ought to be predicted by a good theory. String theory is "parameterless". This is a wonderful thing, until you consider that those extra spacial dimensions can be wrapped up around each other in an enormous number of ways, and each way produces a completely different set of particles and natural laws. So now, rather than measuring a few values, we must instead investigate every possible way of wrapping up the extra dimensions, until we find one which matches our own universe. So, in short, the topology of space is the parameters of string theory, and a much nastier parameter space than for the standard model it is.

      --
      SIGSEGV caught, terminating

      wait... not that kind of sig.
    4. Re:How long is a piece of string? by ardor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      [i]If you aren't reasoning about the true nature of what you study, then you're not studying science any more. You've entered predictive religion.[/i]

      Well, what is "truth"? The answer is: there is no "truth", at least not for science. Science deals with [i]models[/i]. *Religions* try to deal with truth. "There is a God waiting in heaven".... sold as absolute truth. How can you argue against an absolute truth? You see the dilemma here? Since science cannot claim to know the true nature of things, it deals with models applied to observable phenomena. Better models replace or extend current ones etc.

      Once you try to nail down something as "THE truth", you get into trouble, or cause some for others.

      --
      This sig does not contain any SCO code.
    5. Re:How long is a piece of string? by Ambitwistor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      String theory can produce plenty of models outside of what any quantum field theory can model. (Or at least, without said QFT being dual to a string theory.) The problem is that there aren't strong reasons to believe that the models which predict observable results are more likely than the ones that predict results that we'll never have the capability to measure.

    6. Re:How long is a piece of string? by ultracool · · Score: 2, Funny

      I must point out String Theory Summarized from xkcd.

    7. Re:How long is a piece of string? by smallfries · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure, but science has avoided "truth" for a long time, and stuck to empiricism. What is falsifiable? It may not be a truth, in some deep sense, but it captures what we need to be pragmatic about describing reality. I think the classic objection to string theory is not so much that it isn't true, but that it cannot be falsified. Instead of making no predications about the universe it makes all possible predictions, and so it's always right and always wrong. In a very real sense it has become a religion in physics.

      Of course, it may just be a passing phase, and at some point string theory may become refined enough to make falsifible predictions about reality, or not. The current state of things goes way beyond the standard pre-paradigmatic state of science. There are serious alarm bells ringing about whether or not string theory even is science.

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  20. Interesting comments. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    As a layman, I'll wait until the mod points are assigned on this article's comments. Then I'll have a reliable introduction to theoretical physics.

  21. Science is prediction, not explaination by Animats · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Science is prediction, not explanation" - Fred Hoyle

    The serious problem with string theory is that it doesn't yield falsifiable predictions. Theories which don't yield falsifiable predictions are not useful - you can't check them by experiment, you can't effectively choose between them, and you can't develop engineering based on them.

    This matters. From subatomic physics we got nuclear power. From quantum electrodynamics we got semiconductors and lasers. From string theory we got nothing. If you can't make predictions, you can't do engineering design.

    With string theory, you can create pretty mathematical objects, but it's not clear that there's any connection to the real world. Smolin says that's bad physics, and he's probably right.

    There's real progress in physics, but it's mostly at the low-energy, low temperature end. Seemingly impossible objects like Bose-Einstein condensates and materials with negative indices of refraction have both been demonstrated. Quantum computing is hard to do, but real. That's progress. But the high energy physicists and the cosmologists have been stuck for a while.

    It's possible for an entire field to take a wrong turn like this. Artificial intelligence did, back in the 1980s, when the expert systems people were claiming that strong AI was just around the corner. Then came the "AI winter". Twenty years later, AI is moving again, but with new approaches (more statistics, less formal logic) and new people.

    1. Re:Science is prediction, not explaination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      the high energy physicists . have been stuck for a while.
      It's possible for an entire field to take a wrong turn like this.


      I think discontinuing the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super _Collider had a large bearing on that outcome.

    2. Re:Science is prediction, not explaination by bcrowell · · Score: 2, Informative

      The serious problem with string theory is that it doesn't yield falsifiable predictions.
      One of Smolin's arguments is that string theory has yielded falsifiable predictions, at those predictions were later disproved. For instance, one of the early predictions of string theory was that the cosmological constant had to be less than or equal to zero; there seemed to be no reasonable way to make the theory produce a positive value. Then it turned out that the cosmological constant was nonzero and positive. The string theorists came up with mechanisms to allow the positive value, but Smolin argues that they're unnatural, and it's not clear that they really work in general. Another example is that string theory appears to require exact supersymmetry, and nobody knows how to relax that requirement to agree with reality. Another is that (at least according to Smolin) there are fundamental problems in string theory that prevent the assumed statically flat spacetime background from being made dynamical.

    3. Re:Science is prediction, not explaination by fermion · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Prediction is engineering, that is the application of known rules to know what will work and what will not work. Prediction is also what some theoretical physicist do, you know the swine that get hit on the head when they find a truffle.

      The base of physics, shared equally by experimental and theoretical physicist, is the collection and concise modeling and classification of data in such a way that is self consistant and is amenable to simple 'laws' that can be used to make predictions. The predictions are used to determine if and how that models can be used for interpolation, that is to explain phenomenon outside the domain of the original data. The prediction in themselves do not necessarily imply that the model is good or bad.

      As such science is about discovering the limits of our models and then devising better models that can be used more generally. We see, obviously, that certain things fall faster than others, but we also know that in a simple gravitational field, with no other forces, all objects will 'fall' at the same rate. We know that the acceleration of an object is due the mass of the object and forces acting on the object, an in general, as long as the amount of stuff stays constant, the mass can be assumed as constant. And for all speeds we normally see this is true, and the law made many good predictions, until it didn't, but it still has a wide domain.

      But what most people talk about when speaking of predictions is the ludicrous mathematical models, like quantum mechanics and special relativity, that we take as given simply because they solved certain problems, even though they make little sense. We are willing to forgive the nonsense because they can be used to predict real effects. These laws may or may not reflect 'reality', but as long as the create engineering marvels, or solve other pesky problems, we are happy to allow them to complicate our lives. But what has string theory done? Nothing! Does it make out lives easier? Do we work less? Absolutely not. So it must be wrong.

      The thing is that they do seem to model some data pretty well. At this point there is no real way to find out if the math does anything else than model some data, but who knows. The thing is at this point we seem to be in the same kind of trouble we were in 100 years ago or so. Old models were showing cracks, things were not explained, and we needed some major changes to make things right. These major changes were not comfortable, and we still are dealing with it, although I do not think the copenhagen thing is one we still have to debate. But we do need to get QM and GR settled. We do need to figure out what constants are really constant. We do need to figure out the shape of the universe and what is going on with the expansion. The people are working on the problem are those that are doing the math, not those that are complaining about those that are doing the math.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    4. Re:Science is prediction, not explaination by Animats · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think it's more about us as human beings reaching our "biological" limit on how much we can understand the nature of universe.

      No, that's not it. The problem is a lack of experimental data. We don't have the capability to conduct experiments at the scale at which superstrings are hypothesized to exist. But maybe somebody will find a way to do that. After all, there was a time when it was considered hopeless to ever take a picture of an atom.

    5. Re:Science is prediction, not explaination by Rich0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, to the average layman most of Einstein's theoretical work seems meaningless. But, when you build a photocopier anybody can see that there is something to it.

      Ditto for everything else that physics has discovered. The value of the discoveries is appreciated when it is seen how these discoveries apply to the real world.

      The issue with string theory is that while it is self-consistent, it seems like nobody is able to actually do anything useful with it, and to me that makes it an inadequate theory, because the proof is in the ability to apply the theory.

      I can plot my movements for the entire day and fit them to a 47-degree polynomial with a decent level of error, and then wax philisophical about the general theory of human locomotion. And that would last about as long as it takes somebody to realize that five minutes after I publish the theory fails to account for my subsequent activities.

      Given a complex enough equation you can fit any set of data. And given enough time you can even make that equation look "beautiful". What I want to know is how well it holds up six months from now without constant tweaking...

  22. They are all just interpretations by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The real stuff is the equations, which all the interpretations agree on. And all the predictions spring from the equations.

    The interpretations aren't right or wrong, they are just how we translate the math into our daily language. If the Copenhagen Interpretation works for you, use it, otherwise choose one of the others. It does not matter.

  23. String theory, pros and cons by Ambitwistor · · Score: 5, Informative

    Below I'd like to repost something I once wrote trying to explain why string theorists think string theory is an important approach, to counter the inevitable "it's not science" claims I see on string-related threads.

    (I would like to note first that Smolin himself has written string theory papers, and historically has advocated combining string theory with loop quantum gravity, so even he doesn't think string theory is nonsense — he just would like to see it mesh with his own theories and doesn't like the attention it gets relative to them.)

    Anyway, my two cents on string theory and its justification and testability:

    First, string theory could certainly be tested if we could probe the Planck scale. We will never be able to build an accelerator to do
    that directly. There is some chance we might eventually do it indirectly by measuring fluctuations in the cosmic gravitational wave
    background. In addition, string theory encompasses many scenarios in which the string scale could be probed at much lower energies, but nobody is very confident that those scenarios are likely to be correct.

    That being said, there is a serious possibility that string theory might not be testable in practice, at least in the foreseeable future. I don't believe that puts string theory totally outside the realm of science altogether. String theory does at least make predictions, even if we can't test them. But that is a weak argument. More strongly, string theory is motivated by reason of consistency with known physics. Gravity has to be reconciled with quantum theory somehow. There are strong reasons to believe that string theory overcomes obstacles to quantizing gravity in a unique way that all other approaches can't duplicate, although this can't be proven. That is one of the main reasons why string theory is taken so seriously despite its experimental shortcomings (which are not surpassed by its alternatives, either).

    Here are a couple of arguments in favor of string theory put forth by string theorists which I have begun to agree with:

    In particle physics, it has been possible to write down theories of the non-gravitational forces while being ignorant of high energy
    Planck scale physics. This is essentially due to the Applequist-Carrazone "decoupling" theorem, which uses renormalization
    group arguments to show that low-energy physics can be made independent of high energy physics, because at sufficiently low
    energies you can't excite the higher-energy modes; therefore, their contribution is irrelevant.

    This decoupling breaks down for gravity. Because gravity is a universal interaction, it couples to everything (because everything
    has mass-energy); the low energy effects of quantum gravity are never independent of high-energy physics. So you can't write down a theory of quantum gravity unless you purport to know everything about particle physics up to arbitrarily high energies — which of course you can't possibly say, unless you can do experiments at the Planck scale.

    This is a criticism that string theorists level against loop quantum gravity. LQG is usually attempted ignoring all realistic particle
    physics, and even if that approach succeeded, you'd have to write down a different LQG theory to take into account real particles, which might work completely differently than a vacuum LQG theory. LQGers respond by saying that they want to start by just proving it's possible to quantize *any* kind of gravity using this approach, and then worry about "realistic gravity".

    String theory, on the other hand, evades the whole problem. It has a very unique mathematical structure which provides "mysterious" exact cancellations at all orders, rendering low energy physics decoupled from high energy physics despite the universal coupling of gravity.
    Thus, it can make predictions about high energy physics even without our being able to make measurements at that scale. No other approach to quantum gravity has shown any signs of being abl

  24. Some cool string theory quotes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One thing I like about this debate is the cool quotes :):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feynman

    Feynman, "I don't like that they're not calculating anything. I don't like that they don't check their ideas. I don't like that for anything that disagrees with an experiment, they cook up an explanation - a fix-up to say, 'Well, it still might be true.'"

    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/ 03/14/MNGRMBOURE1.DTL

    Another Nobel Prize winner, Robert Laughlin considers string theory to be physic's version of postmodernism:

    "I think string theory is textbook 'post-modernism' (and) fueled by irresponsible expenditures of money."
    "People have been changing string theory in wild ways because it has never worked."

    And don't ever mention string theory to Nobel Prize winner Phil Anderson,

    "we from outside the (string) field are disturbed by our colleagues' insistence that every new semi-adolescent who has done something in string theory is the greatest genius since Einstein and therefore must occupy yet another tenure track. ... Our sciences are becoming increasingly infected with quasi-theology, a tendency which needs to be openly debated."

    The article has some quotes in defence of string theory too but they're not as interesting. The usual blah, blah, blah, give us more time and eventually you'll see that we're right thing.

  25. Re:sounds like a great book by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 4, Interesting
    i've been scoffed at for a few years now for my layperson's mistrust of the Copenhagen Interpretation
    I'll let you in on a little secret. Many physicists these days consider the Copenhagen Interpretation as nothing other than a pedagogical device to save them having to lecture about decoherence to undergraduates. Note that the default response of physicists who don't think much about foundations is to claim that they subscribe to the Copenhagen interpretation simply because that was what they themselves were taught, but they would better be classified as not having any interpretation other than Dirac's "Shut up and calculate!".
    --
    Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  26. "Real" versus "Model" by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Your idea of "real object" is very very strange. Mass?? It's just a characteristic of matter.

    Agreed. We cannot tell the difference betwen a "model" and something "real" other than our model of it fitting observations. But fitting observations only tells us how accurate our model is. It says nothing directly about wether something is "real" or not. Wrong models can still fit reality. But perhaps it does not matter. Ideally we would like to have the "correct" model, but a wrong model that produces all the answers the right one does could be equally useful from a technology standpoint (assuming it is not more complicated).

    1. Re:"Real" versus "Model" by eipipuz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How can it be a "wrong model" if it is indistinguishable from the "right one"? If two models give the same responses... you know, if it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, eats... Maybe it's a homonymy. Like every NP-hard problem which is really the same thing. For those without complexity theory, the traveler sales problem and the determining the minimum number of colors needed to draw a map. Though they seem different, are faces of the same thing.

  27. Sour Grapes by mdsolar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The review of the final chapter seems to me to downplay a pretty valid point:

    If you have ever refereed a paper, you know that you can't much help approching it like a term paper. You look for places to take points off. Visionary papers are almost always unfinished and so get poor reviews. Perfectionist papers that confirm what everyone thinks any way are harder to ding for points. (And are more likely to be fraudulant.)

    Smolin has urged at least one frind of mine to just publish a visionary work to the archives rather than deal with a referee. This does not help with publication metrics that people need to keep their jobs, but it does leave an open channel for stuff that might not be wrong.

    Rather than sour grapes, I'd call it honesty.

  28. String theory, so 90s. by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 2, Funny

    The 90s called, they want their theory back.

    --
    If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
  29. No, just proper attribution by snowwrestler · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The point is that Gell-Mann hasn't written off Smolin, which may lend some degree of credence to him. The only reason Dawkins is mentioned is to properly attribute the quote. I understand your confusion though; proper attribution is so rare on the InterWebs these days.

    --
    Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  30. MOND by soliptic · · Score: 3, Informative
    Was I the only one to think it wouldn't have hurt to have spelled out what MOND is the first time it is used?

    Before you say, "Well, anyone who knows ANYTHING about physics knows that, you retard, this book is not for you..." - well, I did think this was supposed to be a layperson's book. So, I clicked to read this review despite having an effectively non-existent knowledge of physics.

    Well, anyway, here's your answer, at least according to Wikipedia (obviously, not being my field, I can't vouch for its accuracy):

    In physics, Modified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND) is a theory that explains the galaxy rotation problem without assuming the existence of dark matter. Currently, the most widely accepted galactic rotation theory assumes that a halo of dark matter surrounds each galaxy, causing all the stars in the galaxy disc to orbit with the same velocity. When this uniform velocity was first observed it was unexpected because the Newtonian theory of gravity predicted that objects that are farther out will have lower velocities. For example, planets in our Solar System orbit with velocities that decrease as their distance from the Sun increases.

    MOND was proposed by Mordehai Milgrom in 1981 to model the observed uniform velocity data without the dark matter assumption. His key insight was that Newton's Second Law ( F = ma ) for gravitational force has only been verified when gravitational acceleration is large.
    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOND
  31. Re:Why string theory is stupid by Goaway · · Score: 3, Informative

    If I explained to every person mouthing off on Slashdot why they are wrong, I'd never have time to leave the house. Sometimes, you have to keep it short.

    In short: He's confusing string theory and old-fashioned quantum mechanics, while understanding neither. Schrödinger's cat predates string theory several decades, and it is actually meant as a criticism of early quantum theories.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_ca t
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory

  32. IBM by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 2, Informative
    Ernst Mach raised precisely this objection against atomic theory. He said that atoms were not real because we could not, and would never be able to, see them.
    IBM disagrees.
    --
    May the Maths Be with you!