Microsoft Increases Limit on XBLA Downloads

1up reports that XBLA's 50MB size limit is no more. Microsoft has upped that to a whopping 250 MB, just a week after it was revealed that the upcoming Symphony of the Night would be almost double that in size. While this is great for the possibilities of the service, games, and gamers, it does mean that 'Core Pack' owners are now even more 'out in the cold' when it comes to downloadable content. Unless a HDD is purchased for the system, Core Packers are reduced to using the 64MB memory cards, which are clearly not large enough for even one 'expanded' game title. From the article: "However, how many folks are out there downloading Live Arcade games without an HDD? It probably works out to a small percentage. We asked Microsoft about those users and the memory card issues that the console will face with this new expanded size for Live Arcade titles. Microsoft said 'There is already one possible solution in the works for this category of gamer should we decide to increase the Xbox Live Arcade game file size from its current 50 MB limit. As announced at E3 last May, a larger Memory Unit is being developed which will allow gamers who do not own a hard drive to store and easily transport several Xbox Live Arcade games at a time. We have no further details to announce at this time.'"

Comments

What they need to do

[artifex2004]

Seriously. You can already connect a hard drive to your 360, to let it access content you have stored from your computer. But it won't let you store any content your 360 downloads. With a simple firmware update they could let people format external drives so they could be used to store content. Why won't they, besides wanting to make $$$ off drive sales? Don't tell me it's DRM through obscurity...

Re:What they need to do

[ObiWanStevobi]

Well, you hit the nail on the head.

What kind of margin you think they are making on a 60gig HDD selling at > $100? The 360 is going to run into further disk space troubles with their video services and game demos. I'm already a little dissapointed I have to delete Gig+ demos it took a day to download to make space for things on there. Offering HD video content and music ripping takes up a lot of storage. You cannot do that and get by with a mere 20 or 60 gigs. MS should drop the proprietary drive and allow users to add storage. But I doubt they will considering how much they can sell a drive for. They have to be making a killing on them.

Re:What they need to do

[meepzorb]

The only problem is then MS would have to provide technical support for a billion different hard drives.

Um... don't they do this anyway, for Windows?

Hiding behind driver issues is a lame excuse. They could at least lose the proprietary connector, and publish a list of HDDs that would be supported by the current driver.

Re:What they need to do

[arkanes]

Hard drives use a standard interface. You don't need special drivers for your hard drive, only for drive controllers which are built into the XBox and thus not an issue. This is not a support issue, this is MS enjoying the closed, proprietary platform they always wanted the PC to be.

Old Addage

[AKAImBatman]

While this is great for the possibilities of the service, games, and gamers, it does mean that 'Core Pack' owners are now even more 'out in the cold' when it comes to downloadable content. Unless a HDD is purchased for the system, Core Packers are reduced to using the 64MB memory cards, which are clearly not large enough for even one 'expanded' game title.

Penny wise, pound foolish.

I never did understand the Core system concept anyway. If games were going to require a hard drive, what good would it do to purchase a system without one? My suspicion is that Microsoft released the Core system in an attempt to keep their prices from looking outrageous. ($399 was a lot for a game console at the time.) Thanks to Sony, however, Microsoft's pricing scheme suddenly doesn't look so bad after all.

Re:Old Addage

[Itchyeyes]

I think the core system was aimed at parents who would be giving a 360 as a present but would balk at the extra $100. A parent could give the core system at feel like it was a reasonable price. The child could purchase the memory card or hard drive themselves once they had the system. I think it was a poor choice for Microsoft as I doubt it really boosted sales in the long run. Technically it allows them to say that the 360 is $300, but practically in most consumers minds it's still $400.

Re:Old Addage

[Saige]

The inclusion of a built-in hard drive in the original Xbox put a higher bottom limit on how much they could reduce the price of the console. I think I've seen it stated that they're still losing money on sales of the $149 Xbox at this point, and that part of that is the fact that hard drives don't get cheaper, they get bigger.

By making the HD external, it offers the chance for a HD-less system to hit a low price point that also makes a profit. Thus there could be a time when the 360 core system goes for $150, so that it's affordable by a lot of consumers, and at the same time, doesn't actually cost MS money when it's purchased.

And there are people out there who are just using it as a simple gaming system in the same way as previous ones - a memory card for some save games, and that's it. Why force such people to pay for a HD they don't actually need?

Re:Old Addage

[stonecypher]

I think it was a poor choice for Microsoft as I doubt it really boosted sales in the long run.

NPD group, who have the advantage of statistics and understanding the market, believes that the hard drive being purchasable seperately increased the distribution base by almost 20%, which in turn will have had long-term impacts on the platform.

Generally, large companies like Microsoft put multiple billion dollar projects into the hands of more than one person. Making two seperate system types costs them significant money and introduces inefficiency margins which would not have otherwise existed. They did this for a good reason, and it was professionals who know what they're doing who chose to do it.

As a rule of thumb, if you don't have any data, don't argue with the vendor. All you're doing is making yourself look arrogant and naïve.

Core Pack

[Itchyeyes]

Microsoft should have never released the core pack. However, everyone knew exactly what is was from the moment Microsoft revealed it. It was obvious right from the get go that there would be limitations when it came to memory space. If you're using the core pack, and you don't have the storage space for this, then you have only yourself to blame. What's more, it's not like this would be the first item Microsoft offered that wouldn't fit on a memory card. XBL Arcade titles are practically the only thing left on the service at the moment that clock under 300mb.

Re:Core Pack

[stonecypher]

Microsoft should have never released the core pack.

Why not? The core pack made their platform available to a poorer demographic of users, who happen to be the first adopters in the console game industry, and the hard drive upgrade makes them larger margins than the full box. NPD estimates that this maneuver grew their initial market by 18%, meaning that more people bought a given game, meaning more games were developed, meaning they have a stronger library, drawing in more players. They've been riding that 18%, the interest on that 18% and the upgrade margins on the hard drive for a year now.

Exactly why do you suggest that this was a bad idea? Microsoft has made quite a bit of money and established a much stronger presence for this console as a direct result of the tactic.

Re:Bye-bye creativity ?

[Aladrin]

As an old 8-bit player, I disagree. At that point, the gaming market was small and you had to truly impress people to make a buck. It also wasn't seen as 'cool'. Now, it's 'cool' to develop games, and more people that have no idea what they are doing are trying it.

There will be the same amount of good games, it's just that the signal to noise ratio is going to go way, way down now that you don't have limits that are as strict.

Re:Why only 64M cards

[Itchyeyes]

$

Need I say more?

Can you do it yourself?

[Rob T Firefly]

Excuse a dumb question as I know nothing about the 360's guts.. but is it really impossible to plop a new drive in there yourself? I'd have thought any funky proprietary formatting would be clonable by now, whether through an approved process or some shady hack.

Re:Bye-bye creativity ?

[Thansal]

ehhh, I can name LOTS of low size games that suck horribly. I aggree with you on the Gamplay over Graphics front, however the ability (or lack there of) to include stunning graphics does not preclude (or enforce) good gameplay.

Castlevania:SotN is a good example. The game is huge, has nice graphics, and the game is wonderful!

MS is hitting through great things again and again with the 360. Admitedly, yah it sucks if you bought the core system owners, but they already have gotten the shaft on a countless number of things. The soloution to this is to make a new section in XBLA and simply call it "Downloadable games" or some such. Castlevania:SotN is not an arcade game, so dont' put it in the arcade. Keep the arcade games sub 50MB, or stop sellign the crippled core packages. Actualy there are probably lots of people that are perfectly happy with the core and thus they shouldn't stop sellign them.

Downloads per Mem card...

[steveo777]

However, how many folks are out there downloading Live Arcade games without an HDD?

I haven't a clue as to the number, but I think it's very easy to know the why people w/o the HDD don't download a lot of games. The memory cards are $40. That's why. Without the HDD you need a memory card for almost every game on XBArcade. $40 plus each title's cost! That's BS. I've said that from the beginning too. I was outraged by the 'premium' and 'core' 360's and by the PS3 tiered system as well.

What's the biggest problem? I may have to buy a 360 now just because SotN has been ported to it. I've got the original on PSOne, and I can't get to gaming websites, so if anyone could reply to this about any extras in the 360 version for SotN that would be great. (updated graphics? more animations? extra weapons/rooms?)

Re:Downloads per Mem card...

[EGSonikku]

*content* wise it is said to be the same. However, this isn't just an emulated version of the PSOne title either. They literally ported it using the original assets and so it has true 16:9 widescreen support and higher resolution textures. All the music, cgi, and cheesy dialog is intact ;-)

Re:Downloads per Mem card...

[Jolva]

Once you pay for an arcade game you download it, delete it, and download it again later as many times as you want (same for the TV shows). So you wouldn't need a memory card for every title as you suggested.

Roboblitz !

[Rastignac]

Roboblitz is a good example of creativity due to size limitation.
Its texture compression method is impressive. The same game could have been done in "huge format" by lazy programmers, but they did it in "small format" thanks to their good work.
They solved the size limit problem by something positive (and impressive). Other programmers are just waiting for bigger space limits !

Re:SURPRISE

[dave420]

Well, seeing as there is no evidence for your claims, that is obviously just opinion. As this service is not even used by everyone, suggesting the lack of HDD is crippling everyone is ridiculous. Many people don't even use their XBox360s online, so downloadable games are meaningless. But don't let that stop you defending Sony's ridiculous console. Please.

Re:SURPRISE

[sirstar]

XBLA = Xbox Live Arcade. Currently the games (where) limited to 50 megs. Demos can also be downloaded, and most of those are over 100 megs in size.

They upped the size of the Live Arcade games from 50 megs to 250 megs. These are the games that you can either play a demo of, or purchase if you want (and don't have to worry about putting the disk in to play it).

Do they have full games for the PS3 (that you can purchase online and play off the HD) yet? It's good to hear they have the demos and such. =)

Re:SURPRISE

[calbanese]

So ... the XBox360 starts launching new services that need a hard-drive, leaving the "core" system, without a Hard-Drive out in the cold
They saved their hundred bucks. They can't start bitching about it now. Would you say "I bought a BMW X3 but the X5 has better features. I don't care that I saved money by buying the X3, BWM is screwing me"?

The PS3 with a 20GB or 60GB HD (and a User Replaceable one at that), certainly seems like a better choice.
Except that core purchasers bought the core system to save money. I don't see how paying $100-$200 more is better for core users - those who want to save money. Of course, in general, the 60GB/upgradeable drive is a much better option, though I'd take the hundreds of Xbox 360 games over an extra 40GBs.

Heck, even XBLA upping the limit to 250GB seems like a response to the PlayStationNetwork unleashing 500-600MB demos. and 150MB download games.
Castelvania wouldn't fit within their arbitrary limit. Its more of a response to that than to Sony. And the 50MB limit has never applied to demos. All the demos are at least 300MB.

I know lots of people on Slashdot seem to love bashing Sony (and the PS3), but it certainly seems like MicroSoft's XBox360 is reacting a heck of a lot to what the PS3 [can do/is doing].
How exactly?

WHS, of course

[amliebsch]

I will bet dollars to donuts that the 360 will be able to use Windows Home Server as NAS. This has the advantage of being a good solution for gamers who want big storage capacity while simultaneously creating a Microsoft ecosystem for the home computers.