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Startup Tries Watermarking Instead of DRM

Loosehead Prop writes "A U.K. startup called Streamburst has a novel idea: selling downloadable video with watermarks instead of DRM. The system works by adding a 5-second intro to each download that shows the name of the person who bought the movie along with something like a watermark: 'it's not technically a watermark in the usual sense of that term, but the encoding process does strip out a unique series of bits from the file. The missing information is a minuscule portion of the overall file that does not affect video quality, according to Bjarnason, but does allow the company to discover who purchased a particular file.' The goal is to 'make people accountable for their actions without artificially restricting those actions.'"

16 of 344 comments (clear)

  1. What's the enforcement mechanism? by flanksteak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sounds reasonable. But then how does the copyright holder distinguish between the purchaser engaging in illegal distribution vs being the victim of theft? The article never covers that. I think I can guess how the **AA will react to any watermarked file floating around the net with Joe User's name/account reference embedded in it. They'll call a SWAT team and have Joe's house raided. No proof. Sorry, Joe, for the mess. We're on to harassing the next person we vaguely suspect of illegal distribution.

    1. Re:What's the enforcement mechanism? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Heck, the pirate can randomly filter out a few more bits and thus fingering some other patsy instead of him/herself?

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    2. Re:What's the enforcement mechanism? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      OTOH, it will make the user more protective of their data in the first place- and with this watermarking scheme, it is THEIR data.

      Another business model from this could be "You TV"- upload your own bug, buy content- and it's stamped with YOUR bug and available on a website password protected as you choose for you and your friends. Eventually, the bug becomes a video file in and of itself and a route for advertising- and suddenly we'll have advertiser-supported IPTV.

      --
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    3. Re:What's the enforcement mechanism? by rhombic · · Score: 4, Insightful
      They have to prove it "beyond a shadow of a doubt" in a court of law.


      Nope, not at all, at least in the US. The **AA's are filing civil suits, where the standard is "preponderance of evidence", i.e. the jury thinks probably, yeah, the defendant did wrong the plaintiff. BTW, in the US at least it's "beyond a reasonable doubt", and that standard only applies to criminal cases.

      --
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    4. Re:What's the enforcement mechanism? by Hitch · · Score: 4, Insightful

      here's the thing, though - *why* would you do this?
      I mean, I understand the "I need to break the copy protection scheme to use my media!" mentality we all have - because this *isn't* "copy protection". it's "copy indication". You can still do whatever you want with it.
      hell, you can still even share it with your friends!
      just don't put it on a p2p share.
      rip the audio for an mp3? go for it.
      recode it for your ipod? sure.
      want to ditch your ipod and get some other media player? you're able to without having to jump through hoops.
      none of that is restricted.
      this is exactly the kind of copyright "protection" we've been begging for - so why WOULD you immediately try to break it?
      hell, even better is they only have to store a hash of my watermark on file to re-send me the video as often as I want it wherever I want it, and it's up to me not to abuse it. this is a *good thing*

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  2. So the pirate has to buy three copies now ... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Then hex diff it, find the missing bits add them, and then.... profit!

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  3. Excellent by mustafap · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This sounds perfect. As they say, it makes *me* responsible for the file; I can make millions of copies as backup. Of course I wont give it away, to do so is at my own risk.

    The authentication will be a problem of course; it means I will not be able to make an anonymous purchase on the web - something that people are quite reasonably concerned about being able to do. What will it be signed with? My DNA? What about identity theft?

    A heck, I give up. I was wrong. It's another stupid idea.

    --
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  4. They probably thought of that.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Real pirates probably already have the originals anyway.

    Besides, this appears aimed more to stop casual file swapping by scaring the non-tech-savvy than it is at real pirates.

  5. Ohhhhh... by sterno · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You thought this was something intended to defeat deliberate large scale pirates? Why would you think that? I mean none of the DRM crap stops them either, so why should this? :)

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    1. Re:Ohhhhh... by ebyrob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well basically. It sounds like this isn't intended to help figure out where illegal/unofficial distributions come from. Rather to prove legitimate rights to a particular bit of content.

      Basically if the RIAA says "we found copies of Titanic and Spiceworld in your online data store on June 15", you can come back and show them your official copy bought on May 12 so they'll leave you alone. Assuming forgeries are difficult, this might allow technologies like managed online media storage to get off the ground without the legalities dragging it down. Basically this gives you a portfolio of "legally registered" works that another entity can help you manage without imposing additional restrictions on what you can do with the content.

      DRM kind of does this, but it locks up the portfolio and leaves someone besides the end-user with the keys. Under a scheme like this, you're less fencing in your property, and more just making an outline that says where the property boundaries are...

    2. Re:Ohhhhh... by nine-times · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I actually think this is just about right in terms of copy protection. You're right, really professional pirates won't be stopped, but they never will be. However, it discourages individuals from posting their purchased copy online.

      So long as you don't have any moral issues with piracy, anyone can buy a CD, rip it, and put it online. It's easy, doesn't require any expertise, and loads of people do it. That's part of the reason why there's an absolute flood of music online. However, if you knew that every copy online could be traced back to the first guy who purchased it, far fewer people would do it.

      So, if you accept that hard-core professional pirates just can't be stopped, and your goal is to discourage casual piracy without preventing people from doing valid things, watermarking is a good solution.

    3. Re:Ohhhhh... by yali · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This will make an interesting comparison to iTunes... iTunes sells music online with DRM that can, in principle, be defeated (or 1 person could buy an un-DRMed CD and upload it to the rest of the world). But by putting just enough hassle in front of the typical consumer, combined with pricing that is generally perceived as reasonable, iTunes has managed to be quite successful. Consumers could engage in piracy, but most choose not to.

      What's interesting about identity watermarking is that instead of using a digital control like iTunes, they're using a more social one -- making people feel accountable. (As was pointed out, it's unclear yet whether people will actually be held accountable.) If that is effective, critics of the **AAs could make a more effective argument that DRM, which restricts legitimate fair use, is not necessary.

    4. Re:Ohhhhh... by OglinTatas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What do you do in any instance of identity theft? You've got a big mess to clear up largely on your own. That doesn't stop people from having credit cards, cell phones or conducting financial transactions over the phone or online. Are those products and services a bad thing? No. Do people not use them because of the risk of ID theft? No. Even if you had no credit card, cell phone, computer, or bank account, if you have a birth certificate you are at risk for identity theft.

      So is the risk that someone would hack into your computer reason not to use a service like this, which has definite benefit if you were in the market for downloading videos? No. People who hack into your computer can fuck up your life a lot worse than just stealing your videos.

    5. Re:Ohhhhh... by paulatz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But since this is a luxury good,

      I won't say that music and movies are luxuries. I agree that HDTV and 5.2 surround are luxuries, stupid ones to be fair. But visual and audio arts are a primary need for people. Humans play music and drama when they don't have enough food to eat, they built instruments and wore play dresses before writing was developed. You can't honestly say that simple entertainment is a luxury and, since we don't have a lifestyle that allow us to gather every evening around the fire to sing and play, listening to music and watching a movie is a real need for us, not as important as eating and having sex but not much less either.

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  6. See also this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    http://www.broadcastpapers.com/whitepapers/Content %20Technology-05-2006-046-048.pdf

    The Thompson system for watermarking video and there's also a Fraunhofer Institute system:

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,124676-page,1/ar ticle.html

    These are all good ideas IMHO. As long as

    1. The watermark isn't easy to remove
    2. There is uncertainty as to whether the mark is removed
    3. It isn't used to apply DRM

    1 is obvious, 2 is there because the pirate has to be uncertain if their copy still has the idea, and 3. because the advantages of the system over DRM are lost if they use it for DRM!

    Imagine you can freely buy and use the media you use however you like, but if it shows up on p2p, the ID can be pulled and traced back to you.

    Since the DRM doesn't work, (not a single piece of media has successfully been locked up by DRM yet, a 100% failure rate). And since the DRM is already so restrictive that it puts off genuine sales, and is causing competition problems as inter operation is non existent. Then watermarking scheme will take over.

    This one, I'm not so keen on, since the watermark is too easy to remove compared to the more mathematical approaches. The key point of any watermark approach is the mark must be difficult to remove and there must be uncertainty that the mark has been successfully removed.

    My 2 cents.

  7. Not buying it. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'd really like to believe this, but I just can't.

    Whether or not people are "fundamentally" good or evil isn't an argument worth having, in a way, because it's impossible (or nearly so) to take a person completely out of their environment and away from the threat or fear of consequences. However, I suspect that if you gave the 'average Joe' a Ring of Gyges, that he wouldn't help himself to the contents of the local bank/liquor-store/etc. (at least until the novelty of being able to possess anything wore off).

    While you, in fact, may be so constrained by morality -- and if that is the case, I salute you -- but to assume that most people are, seems a bit of a stretch. Most people don't commit crimes, because the perceived risk/reward doesn't work out in their favor. I could go out tonight and hold up the 7-11 on the corner, but I'm not going to; the few hundred bucks it might gain me (at best) wouldn't be worth the strong possibility of spending the next decade or so in prison. However, to someone who was poorer, or strung out on crack, that equation might come out differently; the possibility of a small amount of cash might be more than enough to make the risk worthwhile.

    We can argue about the fundamental nature of humanity all day -- after all, if it was good enough a subject for Plato, it's good enough for me -- but in the end, what matters is whether your philosophy produces a model that predicts how people actually act, rather than how they wish they acted, or how they justify their own actions to themselves. The risk/reward model does this fairly well, at least with economic and property crimes, and therefore seems far more likely.

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