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US Pennies To Be Worth Five Cents?
Z-MaxX writes to point out Reuters coverage following up on last month's news that the US Mint has made it illegal to melt or export US coins in bulk, since the value of their constituent metals — in the case of pennies and nickels — now exceeds their face value. The new story quotes Francois Velde, senior economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, who thinks the new rules will not be enough — he believes that determined speculators are already piling up pennies. Velde suggests "rebasing" the penny to be worth five cents. Quoting Velde: "These factors suggest that, sooner or later, the penny will join the farthing (one-quarter of a penny) and the hapenny (one-half of a penny) in coin museums."
Does this mean if I buy something priced at $1.96, I have to pay $2.00 because I won't be able to make exactly $1.96?
Just stop making pennies and let the public melt them down - that way the Mint won't have to deal with disposing of them and they'll be put to some better use (recycle! or something) ... but that's just my 10 cents
Weird how you focus on this topsy-turvy.
The U.S. is suffering inflation. It's not that the cost of metal is increasing, it's that the value of your currency is falling. Fast.
This week it very, very, nearly reached £1 = $2 for the first time in my lifetime.
You REALLY NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THIS INFLATION, not the value of the metal in your coins.
I'm definitely for dropping the penny. I'm not sure about the nickel... That's a bit much, I think.
As for the dollars becoming coins... I can agree with $1 bills being coins, but I think $5 is too much. I can't say 'Oh well, I lost $5. I won't even bother to look for it.' A $1... I'd still look for it, but I wouldn't be heartbroken if it disappeared. That's what happens to coins. They get dropped. Bills don't get dropped because they are easy to put in a wallet. (If you suggest a coin wallet, I'll slap you. That'd be huge with the number of $1s I carry for the vending machine.)
Pennies, I never look for it they drop. Dimes I usually look for.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
You stopped short of the "bitter reality". Not everyone here has studied economics, so you're going to have to spell it out for them:
:\
When inflation hits a certain point, your currency becomes worth next to nothing, salaries fail to keep up, mortgages are too high (those real estate deals people are so happy about making cash off of...), and we fall into a deep depression. Happened in the early 90's, happened when the tech bubble popped, and the parent is talking about us being on the verge of it happening again.
It's a lousy hole to dig yourself out of, because it's a cycle that no one knows exactly how to break. It just seems to take time (and lots of it) for values to fight their way close enough back to equilibrium and life goes on.
It makes me sick every time I see articles about people flipping real-estate. They HAVE to know properties are over-valued. They just have to. With each sale, the next owner expects the property to either keep its value or go up. When people are flipping properties so quickly, everything has a sale price higher than its actual value. Here in St. Louis, the impact of it has already started to take hold: no one is buying. The market will only bear so much insanity.
As for the mints running money like mad, he's mostly right. For each dollar in circulation, the less each dollar is actually worth. The catch there is circulation. I know many older bills have been coming out of circulation, but I don't know at what rate, so I can't start jumping up and down at that point just yet, but he may very well be right. So we're over-valuing the land we live on, we over-value our money. We're in debt up to our eyeballs to other nations, and we're fighting a war with no clear-cut objective for victory or retreat. Without any bias toward or against our president, we are nearing par with Vietnam, the difference here I have to say is that our body count is not anywhere near the same (thank goodness!) and there is no draft.
Those who study economics have to realize something here too: all of our really serious depressions in the past have been resolved by wars. War creates jobs. War stirs the economy, makes individuals wealthy. Morality aside, each time we've gotten into a bind, a war has bailed us out. This may very well be the first time that *while* at war, this is happening. A war won't bail us out this time (or at least, we'd all best pray it doesn't, because if it does, it means we as a country p*ssed off the rest of the world and they come here to set us straight).
It really is sad to see. I bought my first home 3 years ago. I *thought* the value was a bit high, and managed to buy it just short of what it was appraised at, and was praying my wife and I didn't become too screwed by the real-estate market bombing. Here's to hoping.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
OK, OK, Jeez. I'm worried, OK? If I promise to worry, will you quit yelling at me?
Actually, you're referring to the dollar/pound exchange rate, not necessarily inflation in the US. Since most goods and services purchased in the US are denominated in dollars, not pounds, the relative strength of the pound has little to do with prices in the US. In fact, consumer and manufacturer price inflation is pretty low.
British products may be more expensive in America, but this only really affects the price of my cheesy comestibles. That's not trivial, but I can make do with less. In the meantime, you should take advantage of the situation and purchase cheaper US goods. I wish I could recommend a visit here to you, but ever since the "Department of Homeland Security" was created this country has had all the charm of a prison camp.
Exchange rates are rather volatile. When I was visiting Canada on vacation in Fall 2000, the USD:CAD exchange was 0.65 USD per CAD. Canadians I talked to were concerned about two things: that their currency was going to become worthless and that it looked like a bloodthirsty Texas redneck might get elected US president. At least their currency rebounded.
I am not a crackpot.
Getting rid of $1 and $5 bills is madness! Think of how it would affect the adult entertainment industry! You can't stuff a $1 coin in a G-string.
and if you say any cost is unacceptable, then you really aren't in mental acceptance of the obvious shortcomings of current us currency. any minimal cost involved in a changeover will be greatly overshadowed by the cost gains due to currency with a superior design: efficiency, ease of use, etc. but that you don't seem to give much weight to these factors brings me to point
#2. this argument baffles me. that the us currency must always look the way it does is a sort of mindset i can't comprehend. why is this so important to you? doesn't functionality and intelligent design trump sentimentality and nostalgia? it doesn't even make sense from a point of view of a traditionalist: look at how different us currency is from the 1800s. what did you say?: "There is a certain elegance and history to the look of the bills, which was established centuries ago." excuse me, what are you smoking? centuries ago? you need to familiarize yourself with the history of american currency to a level that a casual elementary school coin collector already grasps
you could be saying that the us needs to be conservative about its currency since its so important to the world economy. well that's completely wrong. #1: the euro has only been around for a few years and is already supplanting the dollar as the de facto currency for reserves/ exchange on the international market. so much for the value of tradition. and #2: counterfeiting, especially the extremely good north korean kind is an argument for a radical redesign in the interest of preserving the hegemony of the american dollar in international exchange. in other words, you have it completely backwards: international confidence in the dollar is served by radically changing its design, and is undermined by allowing it to stay the same, in its easily counterfeited form (for the excellent north korean forgers). recent changes to the $50, $20, and $10 in fact is exactly because of this kind of counterfeiting. too bad the us mint only considered counterfeiting, and not ease of use, in their recent redesigns (and so much for your vending machines can never change argument too right?)
i really don't understand sentimentality and nostalgia as the prime motivating factor when it comes to currency. frankly, who the f*** cares what the currency looks like? usability, a concept a website populated with techies should easily grasp, trumps all. or at least this concept should trump all, but it obviously doesn't with you. the concept that seems to trump all in your mind is inertia. i frankly don't understand how your thinking on the subject has any value. sentimentality and nostalgia are completely useless subjects on the topic
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I was going to lay down a thick bed of sarcasm here, but instead I'll just ask you to consider the surveillance, privacy, economic, and tax implications of replacing a fungible, untraceable medium of exchange (cash) with one that's inextricably linked to your identity, records every transaction as an inherent part of the transaction, and can be watched in real-time from anywhere on the planet.
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
the equating of the look and the feel of the american dollar and its "heft" is just a subconcious connection that depends upon factors going on in your emotions, not in any intrinsic value to the actual design or look or feel of the bill. pick up a roman coin and you will think "gee, nice old coin" and thats it. but a germanic tribesman from roman times though would pick up the same coin and fell the "heft" you are talking about, because he equates that coin with the dominant military and economic machine of his time in his mind. same with you
you have no such equating going on in your mind about the roman coin. and that same germanic tribesman, upon seeing an american dollar, would not feel the "heft" you speak of either. he'd just think it was pretty paper, and probably wipe his ass with it. so the design of the dollar itself is not what gives you the feeling you get when you see it, it is your own mind. therefore, the design of the dollar can be changed, and 20-30 years from now, assuming the usa remains a strong country, a younger canadian tha yourself would feel the same "heft" you speak of, no matter what fruity colors a new radically different dollar would sport
i remember picking up a nazi coin in a friend's collection of coins when i was a teenager, and the thing had menace. i thought it was evil. it definitely had "heft" in my mind. but in actuality, it was quite worn and light weight and cheap looking, since the nazis needed all of their valuable metals for their war efforts. in essence, there was nothing intrinsic about the design of the nazi coin that gave it the "heft" i felt... in fact, it was quite cheap in design. my feeling about it was all psychological, and it all went on in my mind, and that feeling depended completely upon factors that had nothing whatsoever to do witht he actual look and feel of the coin itself. same with your feelings and the american dollar
in short, your canadian currency is superior to american currency. simply because its more usable than ours. and that concept completely trumps your weird psychological feeling of "heft" that you speak of
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it