Vista Upgrades Require Presence of Old OS

kapaopango writes "Ars Technica is reporting that upgrade versions of Windows Vista Home Basic, Premium, and Starter Edition cannot be installed on a PC unless Windows XP or Windows 2000 is already installed. This is a change from previous versions of Windows, which only required a valid license key. This change has the potential to make disaster recovery very tedious. The article says: 'For its part, Microsoft seems to be confident that the Vista repair process should be sufficient to solve any problems with the OS, since otherwise the only option for disaster recovery in the absence of backups would be to wipe a machine, install XP, and then upgrade to Vista. This will certainly make disaster recovery a more irritating experience.'"

Comments

And the problem is?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought Windows Vista was the most stable and secure version of Windows ever! Surely there will be no need for disaster recovery!?

Re:And the problem is?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish: - I didn't waste today's mod points - There was a +1 sarcasm tag

Re:And the problem is?

[Andrew Kismet]

I'm sure that the band will play on as Microsoft's Titanic sinks, too.

Re:And the problem is?

[Jessta]

I thought Windows Vista was the most stable and secure version of Windows ever! Surely there will be no need for disaster recovery!?

It is. It's better than all other versions of Windows. But that doesn't make is stable or secure.

Re:And the problem is?

[Basehart]

Iceberg, Penguin, it's all the same.

Are you surprised?

[alshithead]

Respectfully...So? This isn't really surprising. MS has always tried to have UPGRADE versions require a previous MS OS already installed. Their allowing you to use a CD key from a previous OS version to do a fresh install of the new was somewhat of a kindness on their part. It is an UPGRADE version. If this is a pain in the ass, then buy a full version. Better yet...go Ubuntu.

Re:Are you surprised?

[Mistlefoot]

And what about EVERYONE who bought a computer since last November or so who purchased their PC because they got Vista with it, even though they had to wait for it? Is this really an upgrade for them? They are already dealing with the inconvenience of having to find tune XP before upgrading to Vista and fine tuning again. Only to find out that this is the process for every subsequent format.

I am sure a good many of them do not consider this an upgrade, but rather final delivery of the OS they were promised when they purchased their hardware.

Re:Are you surprised?

[Mistlefoot]

To quote from the article that you forgot to read "If things worked according to the old scheme, people with upgrade coupons would essentially get a "free" OS because they could install the Vista upgrade anywhere, and continue to use the version of Windows XP that came with their computer."

If you want to think I am "way the hell out there" then the author of the article is way the hell out there too. You expect that Microsoft will personally visit each persons home and ensure they return their XP disk as well as format the drive?

How long?

[_merlin]

I honestly can't see them holding out for long with this policy (like the one about only being able to transfer the license to a new machine once that they dropped). Besides disaster recovery, there are times when you just want to re-install because it's the simplest way to get rid of all the crap you've put on your system, or that has been left behind by badly behaved apps that don't uninstall cleanly. No-one is going to put up with having to install an old OS first and then upgrade.

Re:How long?

[theurge14]

I believe you underestimate what Windows users are willing to put up with.

Re:How long?

[cheater512]

Oh they dont put up with it. They just dont know there is a alternative.

From what they hear, Linux is a OS for hippies which only geeks who live in their parent's basements can use.

Another reason to keep backups current.

[Jhon]

since otherwise the only option for disaster recovery in the absence of backups would be to wipe a machine, install XP, and then upgrade to Vista.

I just don't see this as a huge deal. It's just one more of many many countless reasons to keep backups -- and in the case of VISTA -- it sounds like keeping an HD image of the OS partition is of particular interest.

I don't think we'll find a very large corporate install base of "upgrade" versions of Vista. This will affect home users the most.

I'm more concerned with the "'per device' obsession" TFA mentions. I'm in no hurry to swap out XP/2k workstations at my shop for Vista -- and this just re-enforces that. I doubt I'm the only IT professional who feels that way.

Re:Another reason to keep backups current.

[EvilSS]

Vista will even do the image for you. In the new backup utility included with the OS there is an option for a full system backup. Vista creates a VHD (Microsoft's Virtual Hard Disk format from their virtualization products) file of the entire disk and saves it where you tell it to. It's easy enough to boot up to restore mode and drop that image back on.

Well...

[Creepy Crawler]

Who is going to use Vista?

Media companies: Heh heh, if you like 520p.
Regular companies: 2000 is good enough for them.
Small businesses: Whatever looks good to pirate (not vista).
Gamers: PS3 and Wii, and XP (no game co's will make for one OS only)
Media users: 2000 or Linux. Both play things good enough.

"I just bought a Dell": Vista.

Well... I think that sums it up.

Ghost

[adambha]

This will certainly make disaster recovery a more irritating experience. Not if you ghost the drive after doing the upgrade.

Screw Upgrading

[Frogbert]

Screw Upgrading, I finally have the hardware to allow my Windows XP install to boot as fast as my Amiga used to.

Fresh Install Woes

[Kraegar]

I decided to take the plunge and give Vista a go at work. We have a volume license deal with MS, so I grabbed a brand new, unformatted hard drive, and tried to install Vista. Nada. I couldn't even boot from the CD. Tried this in 3 machines.

Out of morbid curiosity I decided to install XP, worked like a charm. I then put in the Vista CD, and it booted and installed a fresh copy of Vista without problem. (Complete overwrite, not upgrade).

So, from my experience, Vista won't even install on a totally fresh hard drive.

A co-worker had a very similar experience, but had to go with installing XP, then upgrading - which leaves you with some decidedly annoying problems with the admin controls.

Overall Vista isn't as bad to work with as some stories would lead me to believe, but there are definitely days where it's easy to see it is not fit for prime-time.

Are you kidding me?

[Ancil]

This will certainly make disaster recovery a more irritating experience.

If your idea of disaster recovery is to install the OS from scratch, I hope to hell you don't work in my company's IT department.

Re:Are you kidding me?

[Anonymous Coward]

If your idea of disaster recovery is to install the OS from scratch, I hope to hell you don't work in my company's IT department.

Your company must not use Windows as its OS. I have learned a lot about how Microsoft's gift to the world works by troubleshooting the various fatal errors it can throw. I am glad my company pays me for my time and not results. I can say after 5 years in the business that in many cases more time is saved by doing a fresh install than attempting to figure out and neutralize the cause. It is fun to do the latter, but generally wildly inefficient when it comes to Windows. Other operating systems behave better in this regard.

"Backup" Utility

[Philip K Dickhead]

The newly supplied "backup" utility is incompatible with the .bkf file format, which goes back to 1993, and worse yet - it cannot operate in Safe Mode. Many times when trying to restore an inoperable system, Safe Mode is the only available way to access the system!

Vista - a glossy step backwards.

Re:"Backup" Utility

[Anonymous Coward]

The newly supplied "backup" utility is incompatible with the .bkf file format, which goes back to 1993, and worse yet - it cannot operate in Safe Mode. Many times when trying to restore an inoperable system, Safe Mode is the only available way to access the system!


MS has made the old backup utility available for download just for people like you.

Did you ever think the BKF format might be limited and based on, oh 1993 technology??

Vista - a glossy step backwards.
Jealousy is a horrible thing, now go upgrade that 1993 system.

huh?

[macadamia_harold]

Microsoft is crippling Windows and making life harder for their customers? Good. I welcome this change

what do you mean "change"?

Practical joke?

[Raven42rac]

This OS must be some sort of practical joke just to get all of us talking about it. No company that respects its customers... oh wait, nevermind.

Disasters vs Pirates

[flyingfsck]

All that requirement will do is force everybody doing a disaster recovery to use a pirate copy of Vista, since it will be much less trouble.

Fuck that!

[Robber Baron]

There are multiple options.
1) Buy an upgrade version that requires a previous OS version to already be installed.
2) Buy the full version to install however the hell you want.
3) Use an alternate OS other than MS. Fuck that! I'll be using option 4:

4) Download a cracked version and install it instead.

Bill Gates can go attempt asexual reproduction if he thinks I'm going to run through two installs just to get one O/S working.

Re:Fuck that!

[cpt kangarooski]

Bill Gates can go attempt asexual reproduction if he thinks I'm going to run through two installs just to get one O/S working.

Attempt? Bill Gates can undergo mitosis at will. Didn't you know that? It's one of the creepier things about him.

They Had To Discuss This At Microsoft

[NeverVotedBush]

Somebody made a conscious decision to do it this way. You have to wonder what they were thinking.

"We're Microsoft and we can do as we damn well please because few of our customers know they have options?"

I do wish that more people would move to Linux and/or that Apple would port their OSX to PCs. (which I believe Apple has expressed no or little interest) If Microsoft had more real competition, they wouldn't be so smug and willing to hang their own customers by the short and curlies.

Microsoft seems to be confident that the Vista rep

[skelator2821]

Microsoft seems to be confident that the Vista repair process should be sufficient to solve any problems with the OS Hahaahahaha I didnt know Format was a Repair Process?

You must request bootable Vol License media

[zerofoo]

It's available, but you don't get it unless you ask for it, when you place your volume license order.

-ted

Re:thank u bill

[Nataku564]

It wont, which is why Microsoft cuts off support after so many years. Businesses dont care about the shinies, but they do care about support.

Dum-bee badum-bee

[Jesus_666]

You think so? Let me tell you a little story:

I was writing a paper, on Vista. Then suddenly the computer was like "beepbeepbeepbeepbeep" and I was like: "...huh?" And then like, half of my paper was gone. It was a really good paper. And I had to write it again and I had to do it fast so it wasn't as good, which is kind of... a bummer.
My name is Jesus_666 and I'm a student.

Doesn't this mean you can't ever reinstall?

[robosmurf]

Taking a strict reading of the licence agreement, doesn't this mean that if you have the upgrade version, you can't EVER reinstall it?

To use the upgrade, you need the previous version installed. However, the licence agreement for Vista says:

13. UPGRADES. To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible
for the upgrade. Upon upgrade, this agreement takes the place of the agreement for the software
you upgraded from. After you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you upgraded from.

The last part seems to indicate that you are not allowed to reinstall the previous version. Thus, if your hard disk gets trashed, you can't install the previous version in order to do the upgrade.

Re:Microsoft seems to be confident that the Vista

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe you should check "don't format the partition" instead then?