Professor Michael Geist on Vista's Fine Print

Russell McOrmond writes "With Microsoft's Vista set to hit stores tomorrow, Michael Geist's weekly Law Bytes column (Toronto Star version, homepage version) looks at the legal and technical fine print behind the operating system upgrade. The article notes that in the name of shielding consumers from computer viruses and protecting copyright owners from potential infringement, Vista seemingly wrestles control of the "user experience" from the user. If you are a Canadian and think that the owner of computers should be in control of what they own, rather than some third party (whether virus authors or the manufacturer/maker), then please sign our Petition to protect Information Technology property rights."

Comments

Futile petitions aside

[Rogerborg]

Isn't the most effective way to "protest" it just not buy, to explain to your friends and workplaces why they shouldn't buy it, and most particularly, to aggressively pursue a refund for any bundled versions that you're forced to buy with hardware?

Re:Futile petitions aside

[CastrTroy]

I think this is probably the best option we have, although I'm not sure how well it will work. Most people just buy a computer and use whatever software comes with it. And if you start to talk about why they shouldn't be using Vista, their ears turn off because you are being too technical (no matter how much you try and dumb it down).

Re:Futile petitions aside

[purpledinoz]

It is, but it's hard to boycott something that most people don't have a clear understanding of. Lets face it, 80% of the people have no idea what the difference between XP and Vista is, or even what Vista even is. Furthermore, even if they do know what Vista is, they would assume it's better because it's newer (that's what I thought when I upgraded from 98SE to ME, what a disaster). There's really no chance in informing the average customer.

But, if Vista pisses off businesses, then MS has a real problem on their hands. Businesses are already reluctant to change. They're definitely going to reject Vista if it makes them less productive. At least I'm hoping that's how it would turn out.

Re:Futile petitions aside

[ultranova]

And if you start to talk about why they shouldn't be using Vista, their ears turn off because you are being too technical (no matter how much you try and dumb it down).

"You shouldn't be using Vista, because it won't let you watch porn you downloaded from the Internet for free. It has this thing called DRM which will turn the good good parts to mosaic. We technical people call this downsampling. Oh, and it may even connect to Microsoft or the police and tell them what you're watching."

Re:Futile petitions aside

[hackstraw]

Isn't the most effective way to "protest" it just not buy, to explain to your friends and workplaces why they shouldn't buy it, and most particularly, to aggressively pursue a refund for any bundled versions that you're forced to buy with hardware?

Not to buy. Have not given MS a dime since 1995.

Explain to friends and workplaces. I cannot recommend MS products over the alternatives. With my friends, I clearly tell them if they are asking my advice, my answer is to buy a Mac. None to date have taken my advice, and they still ask me about "Windows problems" when I politely told them that I don't do windows and that I could not help them with windows problems upfront. Workplaces. They seem to be MS dependant despite years of suggestions to change.

Refund? The principle of the thing is worth more than the money, and for most people, neither is that important to them.

All I can say is that this petition is a day late and a dollar short, but although I have fixed my microsoft problem. I still know plenty of people that don't care or just won't change from the MS problem.

I am _not_ brand loyal/disloyal. I treat all things as generic tools and will use what is best for the job at the current time, and things come and go on my shitlist, and I don't hold a permanant grudge until the company has gone too far. To date, only two companies have made my permanant shitlist, and I have brought one of them to court as well, and neither are Microsoft.

Macs were on my offlist before OS X, but they have seen the light :)

EULA's and click thru's

[gravesb]

There is still a lot of debate on whether EULA's and click through agreements are completely binding. I won't get into all of the arguments on both sides, but I believe that companies are afraid to really go after anyone for breaking the asnine portions of these agreements because a court might rule that these documents are not binding contracts. They are handy for threatening people in certain situations, with cease and desist letters, and for making corporate users wary about potential law suits, thus restricting their usage and options. Of course, a court could hold that they are completely binding, and then the software companies would be free to attack an breach. So each side seems to be in an uneasy truce.

Re:EULA's and click thru's

[Courageous]

How many people really read their 10 page mortgage application? Surprisingly few. And yet the agreement is legal.

The concept is referred to as a "contract of adhesion," where insofar as the terms in the contract are those that can be reasonably expected to be found in similar contracts for similar purpose, the contract is considered binding whether or not a "meeting of the minds" has occurred over the material details of the contract. I actually don't like contracts of adhesion at all, and wish they didn't exist. But they do.

In many states, and I believe now in at least one federal appellate district, EULA's have been ruled to be contracts of adhesion. You can imagine my alarm. So what I'm telling you is that that EULA you didn't read is likely legal. Evil, but legal.

C//

Re:EULA's and click thru's

[rainman_bc]

The concept is referred to as a "contract of adhesion," where insofar as the terms in the contract are those that can be reasonably expected to be found in similar contracts for similar purpose, the contract is considered binding whether or not a "meeting of the minds" has occurred over the material details of the contract. I actually don't like contracts of adhesion at all, and wish they didn't exist. But they do.

In order to have a contract you need:
1) Offer
2) Acceptance
3) Consideration
4) Intention
5) Capacity to contract

Of most interesting is consideration. When you purchase an item from a store there's consideration. I offer my $5 for your pack of cigarettes. Their needs to be consideration on both sides to have a contract.

What I find interesting is that there is no consideration in a EULA; it's one sided. You've already paid for the license, and now you're being asked to agree to the terms after the contract has been made. At no point has any more consideration happened on your part.

Agreeing to an EULA IMO is like making a promise. If I promise someone a trip to Vegas for nothing in return, there is no contract, just a promise and it's unenforceable. I'm quite surprised no one has challenged an EULA under contract law asking where the consideration is when you agree to the therms? Simply agreeing to terms of usage without offering up any consideration is quite interesting because the money is paid to the store, and the store then sends money to the manufacturer.

Of course the problem lies in convincing a judge that a click-through agreement after a contract has been made is not binding, and who wants to battle Micro$oft? I for one don't.

Still missing some features.

[purpledinoz]

I wonder if they included the blue-screen-of-death feature that I've enjoyed for such a long time.

Old and busted: Bill Gates New hotness: Steve Jobs

[Doomstalk]

Am I the only one who is getting tired of reading all kinds of "Microsoft DRM is evil!" posts, and then seeing a post the very next day talking about how awesome Apple is? One company is buckling to industry pressure and including DRM, the other has a fricking Trusted Platform Module in every new computer it makes. The double standard is infuriating.

Re:That stampede sound you are hearing....

[eviloverlordx]

.... are former Windows users running to the Apple Store to buy a Mac.

All three of them? I wouldn't have thought that three people makes a stampede, no matter how fast they run.

Where's the buzz?

[pubjames]

Is it just me, or is there a complete lack of any kind of buzz around Vista?

A search on Google News (UK) brings up loads of articles with negative titles "Buying Vista? Get a guarantee", "Windows Vista: Where Is The Wow?", "Windows Vista: the best reason to buy a Mac?", "Windows Vista disappoints, so get a Mac". And that's just in the first half of the results.

It really is quite amazing for a product that Microsoft has spend billions and many years to develop.

Of course the sad thing is that, because of its strangle hold on the market, it will still make billions and will be able to declare the launch a success.

Re:That stampede sound you are hearing....

[JimDaGeek]

That is exactly what I did a few months ago. I dropped my wife's HP laptop and the screen broke. It would have been $600 to fix it so I bought an Intel Macbook. My wife loves it, and so do I. In fact she was always yelling at me for always taking it from her so I said the only way she could keep it is if I got my own Mac. A little later I got an Intel iMac and love it. I triple boot with WinXP for a few games, Visual Studio and MS SQL Server and Linux for my "fix".

There is just no reason to go to the junk that is called Vista. I hope WinXP will still allow me to do the few things I need to in MS Windows for the next 3-5 years, then I can see what the OS landscape is like.

As for others saying Apple is just as bad as MS when it comes to restrictions and DRM, they are clueless. I never had to do any "activation" on my two Intel Macs. The only DRM I have found is with iTMS, so I just don't use it or buy music. I did buy a few TV episodes from iTMS, however when I couldn't burn them to DVD to watch on my big TV, I stopped that as well. OS X is just far better than anything from MS. I get the juicy *nix that I love and a very good user experience for me as well as an easy to use experience for my wife.

"you may not work around..." Stunning!

[dpbsmith]

"you may not work around any technical limitations in the software."

That's absolutely stunning. I wonder exactly how broadly that could be interpreted?

If I buy any kind of third-party utility... antivirus software, backup software, a defragmenter... isn't that "working around" technical limiations in the software Microsoft provides? Isn't Firefox arguable a "workaround" for technical limitations in Internet Explorer?

It's about time to stop calling it a "personal computer" and start calling it a "Microsoft corporate computer."

Re:Old and busted: Bill Gates New hotness: Steve J

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Am I the only one who is getting tired of reading all kinds of "Microsoft DRM is evil!" posts, and then seeing a post the very next day talking about how awesome Apple is? One company is buckling to industry pressure and including DRM, the other has a fricking Trusted Platform Module in every new computer it makes. The double standard is infuriating.

So if I buy a mac, how does the DRM affect me? Do I have to worry about my computer becoming unusable if I change hardware? Do I have to worry about re-registering? Do I have to worry about registering in the first place? The answers are, of course, no, no, and no. So is there a chance Apple will delete software off of my computer without my permission as MS's built in security will? No. So what, exactly, is the issue? There is a chip with an encryption key on it in the box? Okay, so why should I care? I'm a pragmatist. If my files were being DRM'd so I could not move to something else or if Apple was restricting me in any way, maybe I'd care. Apple does put DRM on their music files, they sell, but I generally don't buy from them. I did buy a few songs once that I could not find elsewhere, but I legally stripped the DRM off with a freeware program and backed them up as a regular audio CD with no DRM. What's the problem?

I use Windows and OS X and Linux on the desktop. Currently I favor OS X because it gives me the best feature set for general tasks. If Apple starts implementing DRM in such a way as to inconvenience me, I'll migrate to something else. I'm not going to do so, however, unless the DRM does inconvenience me. I'm not being shortsighted either. Any use that prevents me from being able to move platforms would probably tip the balance away from Apple, as I value portability.

The only real restriction I've seen Apple implement with encryption is locking their software to their hardware (any Apple hardware not a specific machine). Since Apple only licenses their software to run on their platform the only people this inconveniences are people who plan to use the software but break the license, and that doesn't leave a lot of room for complaint. Would I prefer it if OS X would run on any hardware? Sure, it would be a great feature. The problem is Apple's main product would directly compete with an abusive monopoly, and that means it would die and we would not get to use it anymore. The traditional strategy for dealing with such a monopoly is to build a separate vertical chain of supply, which Apple has done. Breaking that chain before MS is stopped from their criminal monopoly abuse is not a real option for Apple, so I don't blame them at all for only licensing their OS for their hardware.

Re:That stampede sound you are hearing....

[DaveM753]

it's the weight of the runners...

"...Developers! Developers! Developers!..."

Petitions are not futile...

[Russell McOrmond]

The petition is to the Canadian parliament, and is on behalf of all owners of Information Technology -- not just those who choose any specific brand of hardware or software.

Our existing petitions have already had an important effect, letting politicians know that there are more constituencies in this issue than the incumbent industry associations. Our new petition tries to move away from the myths that DRM is about "content control" when in fact it is about "hardware control". This "hardware control" impacts your usage of hardware you own, regardless of whether you are using "premium content" or not.

This is also not a Microsoft and/or Apple issue, as these bad laws impact all users of technology whether or not they are ever a customer of Microsoft or Apple.

http://www.digital-copyright.ca/petition/ict/
"THEREFORE, your petitioners call upon Parliament to prohibit the application of a technical protection measure to a device without the informed consent of the owner of the device, and to prohibit the conditioning of the supply of content to the purchase or use of a device which has a technical measure applied to it. We further call upon Parliament to recognise the right of citizens to personally control their own communication devices, and to choose software based on their own personal criteria."

Re:That stampede sound you are hearing....

[Dunbal]

So my new debate is whether to accept Vista and simply work around its limitations and restrictions

      According to Microsoft's EULA: "You may not work around any technical limitations in the software"

      I think they just helped you with your decision.

Re:That stampede sound you are hearing....

[westlake]

That stampede sound you are hearing....are former Windows users running to the Apple Store to buy a Mac

Amazon Software Bestsellers (January 29 12:45 PM ET)

2 Microsoft Office Home and Student 2007
4 Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade
5 Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade
12 Microsoft Office Professional 2007 Upgrade
13 Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Full Version
14 Microsoft Office Student and Teacher Edition 2003
15 Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Full Version

Microsoft has twenty titles in the top fifty.

I'd say these numbers suggest that Vista is going to do just fine in the domestic consumer market.

Re:That stampede sound you are hearing....

[It doesn't come easy]

Windows Vista is, at least for me, the anvil that broke the camel's back. I have been planning a switch to Linux for about two years and Vista is the prefect opportunity to commit. In fact, Microsoft has practically made it mandatory. I wonder how many other users feel the same way? Regardless, Ubuntu, here I come :).

Re:That stampede sound you are hearing....

[tha_mink]

That stampede sound you are hearing....are former Windows users running to the Apple Store to buy a Mac
Amazon Software Bestsellers (January 29 12:45 PM ET)

2 Microsoft Office Home and Student 2007
4 Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade
5 Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade
12 Microsoft Office Professional 2007 Upgrade
13 Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Full Version
14 Microsoft Office Student and Teacher Edition 2003
15 Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Full Version

Microsoft has twenty titles in the top fifty.
I'd say these numbers suggest that Vista is going to do just fine in the domestic consumer market.
SHhhhhh. This is Slashdot, there's no place for money talk here. The POINT is that everyone will NOT buy it and only HATE it. I'll stick with BeOS thank you.

But what about performance?

[Beltonius]

Toms Hardware http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista / just published extensive Vista Enterprise benchmarks, comparing them to XP Pro. The result: At best, the computer won't run any slower. At worst, it will run software abysmally slow or not at all. OpenGL support seems nonexistant, judging from the horrendous drop in performance in UT2004 (>30% drop) and the rendering of 3D/CAD/CAE software unusable (80-90% drops in performance). This is idiotic on Microsoft's part. Now businesses will be even more opposed to upgrading to Vista, since either they're going to have to stop using their engineering/graphics software (at least until vendors work on their Vista support) or they're going to have to split their computer infrastructure and support both XP and Vista, while seeing, at beast, negligible gains under Vista. Businesses are not going to be sold on the promise of Aero glass, especially not when Vista's recommended system requirements are so high, relative to those for XP (I have a P2 450 with 384MB of RAM running XP Home passably, it certainly won't be able to run Vista).

The options

[Animats]

• Buy Vista. Put up with all the nonsense. Know that Microsoft will probably Tivo you at some point, taking away some functionality. Expect downtime due to authorization problems.
• Keep running Windows 2000 and retain control of your system. No support, not compatible with many new devices, won't play much content, but a solid system.
• Switch to a Mac, the other closed system. Everything from Apple works; third party software is kind of thin.
• Run Linux on the desktop. It's almost ready for the desktop, like it has been for five years now.

Those are the options. And they all suck.

This is an opportunity for somebody. Probably somebody in China.

My vist experiance

[thorkyl]

I loaded it on a twin dual core with 4 gig of ram.
It booted slower than 2k pro
It would not allow me to install sybase (vista said it was a virus)
I could not run Office 2000 on it. I would just crash if it opened at all
I was unable to load my custom written backup software, it did not have a valid certificate
      ( i wrote the software )

I unloaded vista and put 2k back on it