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Net Neutrality Act On the Agenda Again

blue234 writes "On January 9th, Republican Senator Olympia Snowe and Democrat Byron Dorgan reintroduced the bill popularly known as the Net Neutrality Act, and officially called the Internet Freedom Preservation Act. The bill was killed in the Senate last year in a vote split along party lines (Democrats yea, Republicans no), with the exception of Senator Snowe, who voted with the Democrats. Now that the Democrats have a slight majority in the Senate, the bill certainly has a better chance, but it still needs 60 votes to prevent a Republican filibuster.

28 of 242 comments (clear)

  1. Wait and see, I think by JoshJ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If this suceeds, I think we basically win the internet freedom war against the telcoms and cable companies- it'll be a long time before they can do any more damage.

    1. Re:Wait and see, I think by JoshJ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Stall the internet's progress?
      I'd say allowing the cable companies to charge people for delivery of content would halt it entirely- there'd be no more small innovations, you would have to be a big player to have a website, period. Nothing new would be possible from the average person- only from the large corporations.

    2. Re:Wait and see, I think by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If this suceeds, I think we basically win the internet freedom war against the telcoms and cable companies- it'll be a long time before they can do any more damage.
      Maybe. I guess it depends on how loosely worded the bill ends up being and how many loopholes get thrown in by senators catering to special interests (read: corporate campaign sponsors). This sort of pandering to special interests isn't a Republican thing and it isn't a Democrat thing either -- it's a politician thing.

    3. Re:Wait and see, I think by CaymanIslandCarpedie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Question: Is there any way to word a Net Neutrality bill without loopholes which wouldn't also interfere with legitimate activity?

      I'd hope it would be possible, but it would certainly have to be carefully worded. However, and I'm sure this may put me in the minority here, but I don't think any Network Neutrality laws should be passed at this time. Any type of such regulations will add to costs (if nothing else than from an administrative/legal perspective) and of course those costs will be passed on to the consumer. I think Network Neutrality MUST be maintained, but I don't see the need for laws/regulation to enforce it as this time.

      History teaches us laws tend to be far from perfect and I'm sure this would be no different. Instead of passing laws/regulations on this, hopefully just the threat of such laws/regulations will keep the telcos in line. Instead of passing a law on this, I think currently I'd rather see some kind of non-binding resolution passed explaining the spirit of Network Neutrality and threatening regulation if the Telcos attempt to interfer with it. My feeling is the Telcos would much rather live with Network Neutrality than face additional regulations, so hopefully this will keep the internet free without having to resort to the burden of regulations. Besides, who do you think will get the loadest voice if/when any such regulations are enacted? The Telcos! I think keeping things the way they are but with the threat of regulation is the best course right now.

      That said, if there is to be a network neutrality law here are some important ideas I think should be included to allow legitimate activity while also keeping network neutrality:

      1) Any network neutrality laws should only apply to "common carrier" networks (ISPs and the large backbone network providers). My private network at work or home, I can do with what I want. Now there will be some tricky questions here as well. Universities which provide internet access to students, are they ISPs? Should this apply to them? I'd say probably not, but thats open for debate. So there should probably be some carefully spelled out exceptions that these laws will NOT apply to and also have a system in place for organizations which do fall under the law to apply for exemptions (of course there is the danger of this beign abused, but I think it needs to be there to protect unforseen cases).

      2) Network Neutrality should NOT be about treating ALL traffic equally. It should be about treating all of the same type of traffic equally. If there is a reason to give UDP traffic priority over TCP traffic, thats fine but all UDP traffic gets that priority not just certain people who pay more. If there is a reason to give port 80 traffic priority over port 21 traffic, again thats fine but all service providers get the same opportunity to use port 80 traffic not just the ISPs private service, etc, etc, etc. Possibly any such priority decisions like this will need to be approved by some type of standards body so each ISP/carrier doesn't just use different priorities to segment the network.

      3) Exceptions about treating all traffic equally may be made for SPAM/virus/security reasons. If there is traffic coming from a botnet sending tons of spam you can treat that traffic differently. (ie black lists, etc are still permissable). However, any ISP or common carrier found to be abusing that exemption to the detrement of thier competitors will face stiff fines.

      I'm sure I'm missing tons of other key ideas, but these are ones that first come to my head which will keep things flexible, but hopefully still get the hoped for result.

      --
      "reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
  2. Hopefully... by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the bill survives committee intact. Do not contact your Representative or Senator to ask them to support the bill until after it makes it through committee! Otherwise you could be supporting a bill that's completely different from what you think it is.

    --
    Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
  3. It's not gunna happen.. by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Insightful

    here's how I see it...

    My friend sends me a link to a clip on Google Video.
    I go to the link, get my clip and laugh at the money drinkin' its own urine, or whatever.
    Google gets a bill from my Internet service provider for bandwidth usage.
    Google rips up the bill and tells my ISP to go fuck themselves.
    My ISP reduces the available bandwidth to connections to Google's ip range.

    Great, so then what happens?

    My friend sends me another link to a clip on Google Video.
    I go to the link and discover that the clip is too slow (or completely blocked).
    I moan to my ISP that I can't play these important movie clips from Google Video.
    My ISP tells me that I can't play them because Google hasn't paid their bandwidth charges.
    I tell my ISP to go fuck themselves and switch to a provider that honours net neutrality.
    Everyone else does this too because we really like Google Video.

    And there goes the backhanded stupidity caused by ISPs temporarily forgetting that we, the consumers, control exactly how much money they make.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:It's not gunna happen.. by JoshJ · · Score: 1, Insightful

      And what happens if all the ISPs make a deal that they will all refuse to honor net neutrality? Because that's what would happen- they'd all make a deal behind the scenes. That's what happens today- corporations ganging up to rape the consumer.

    2. Re:It's not gunna happen.. by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If that happens, we've got a lot bigger problems than net neutrality.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    3. Re:It's not gunna happen.. by QuantumG · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe they do where you live, but most parts of the world, they have these laws that prevent price fixing, and companies actually compete for the customer's business. Of course, if you have any evidence of price fixing, maybe you shouldn't be talking to me, maybe you should be talking to a lawyer, cause you could have some sweet class action lawsuit payout coming. But I think you don't.

      Similarly, if you're so sure that ISPs are price fixing, in clear violation of the law, then why bother supporting a new law? Won't they just break that one too?

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
  4. Dangerous by Dunbal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You know, I am seeing this practice more and more often in many countries throughout the world. Some bill or act is shot down. A few years later when the balance of power shifts slightly, some trivial modifications are made to the content of the bill, and it is resubmitted.

          I think this is a dangerous practice. Yes it is a reasonable strategy for a party or special interest group - because if they are persistent enough the bill might just pass. However it is dangerous for the rest of us - since once this bill passes - even if it is merely through insistance and momentum, we are stuck with it. It is much harder to get a law repealed than to get one approved. So we end up with laws that got approved through sheer bloody-mindedness, and are stuck with them because no one dares repeal it. I mean, if it is a law - it must be right, right? People must have agreed with it, right?

          Sigh, another pebble is eroded off of the cliff of democracy...

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:Dangerous by TheSuperlative · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How is this eroding democracy? That is democracy.

      Under your ideal government, reform would be impossible, since one could only pass things by consensus - and anything that could not pass a few years earlier would be considered bad.

      Change happens in a democracy. We vote in new leaders precisely for the reason that we want them to pass the things that the old ones wouldn't.

      --
      "In God we trust, all others we monitor." -- Unofficial NSA motto
    2. Re:Dangerous by kfg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If this sort of nonsense keeps up we stand the risk of banning slavery and giving women the vote.

      KFG

  5. Re:As a North Dakotan by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't think you read very carefully:

    From TFA:

    "The prioritization of types of content, applications, or services would be allowed under the condition that it is done free of charge, and that it is done for all types of that particular content. For example, the prioritization of packets to insure Quality of Service for Voice over IP must be done for all VoIP providers free of charge to them."

    Now since virtually every telco is also an IP carrier you can kiss skype goodby. Anything that competes with POTS is likely to be degraded to death.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  6. Be very wary by bendodge · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am personaly against the current form of net neutrality. I think that government intervetion is almost always bad. The ONLY regulations that should be passed:

    1. All backbone providers must allow other providers to connect to them on a naked pipe
    2. All providers must use standard protocols
    3. Providers may only throttle data/bandwidth based on protocol, not orgin/destination

    I believe anything more is harmful to the free market.

    --
    The government can't save you.
  7. You chose force, I choose the free market by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I disagree. Let's say one area has both DSL and Cable IP as choices for high speed internet access. Let's say that the DSL company implements your fear scenario. They will block any blogger that does not pay to reach their customers. If I am the cable IP provider then I will not do this and then make this clear in my advertising campaign. My ads would say: Do you want the entire internet? Then signup with my cable IP service. Customers will flock to me.

    I have a lot more faith in the invisible hand of the free market than I do in corrupt politicians whose hands are dirty from counting bribe money.

    1. Re:You chose force, I choose the free market by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are trusting that your cable IP service won't also have tiered access. Of course, both cable and telephone companies currently provide tiered services (DSL, DSL-Lite, voicemail, premium channels, VOIP, etc) why wouldn't they charge for access to third-party media providers.

      It takes more than two sources of broadband to create a free market.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    2. Re:You chose force, I choose the free market by JoshJ · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The invisible hand of the free market has failed left and right. Standard Oil. Carnegie Steel. Ma Bell. Microsoft. No thanks- I'll take a regulated market that guarantees individual rights by taking some away from corporations.

    3. Re:You chose force, I choose the free market by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, sorry, the market was ruined by the consumers, not the producers. If you don't demand competition, then don't be surprised when producers don't compete. Go ask an Indian how many monopoly products he bought last year. Shit, we don't even haggle in the western world anymore - it's considered rude. Where's the US version of whirlpool? Exactly how much effort have you put into finding the best price, on any product, in the last week? And don't go blaming the marketing and the slick advertising... you let it get this bad. Now you're crying to the government for regulation.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    4. Re:You chose force, I choose the free market by daeg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The thing is, it won't necessarily be your local cable company that is forcing the charge. What if it's your peering points? What if it's the local government that gets greedy? What if it's the FCC? Or a "tax" on pornographic websites to help cover "filtering costs"?

      As well as the "entire Internet" will attract customers, you could have 100,000 local customers but if you can't get anyone to peer with you, you basically have a city-wide Intranet.

      I'm not saying those would happen or even could happen, but a non-neutral net is a very dangerous tool in the hands of legislators. I'm happy to see legislators willing to legislate power away from themselves for once.

    5. Re:You chose force, I choose the free market by bladesjester · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hate to break this to you, but the free market is an illusion. It's a convinient lie told to people by economists and parroted by large companies because it suits their purposes (eg "don't blame us. It's just the market at work"). The thing that amazes me is that so many intelligent people buy into it.

      The truth is that the major players in any given market often collude with each other on one level or another for their own mutual benefit and the government goes along with it. In fact, governmental interference in your so-called free market is the reason that the phone companies were feaseable in the first place (the fed paid for the infrastructure) and is the reason that the airlines are still operating because most of them are hemoraging money left and right.

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    6. Re:You chose force, I choose the free market by miskatonic+alumnus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know, I will blame the marketing and slick advertising. It was designed to play to people's weaknesses, much as propaganda shapes public opinion. Face it: almost all media is owned by a handful of corporations that want us to buy their crap. The only recourse is education --- an increasingly watered down, one-sided education provided by the public schools. And the corporate drivel has infiltrated there too. So, no, the consumers aren't at fault, they are behaving the way they were programmed to --- by market forces and a weak, greedy government.

    7. Re:You chose force, I choose the free market by asdfghjklqwertyuiop · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Let's say one area has both DSL and Cable IP as choices for high speed internet access.

      I have a lot more faith in the invisible hand of the free market than I do in corrupt politicians whose hands are dirty from counting bribe money.
      There is no free market when it comes to internet access. The cable and DSL companies have their lines and equipment strung all over public and private property which is all made possible through government granted rights-of-way.

    8. Re:You chose force, I choose the free market by shma · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, sorry, the market was ruined by the consumers, not the producers.

      Yeah, and when a scientific theory doesn't match experiment, it's not the theory that's failed, it's the universe's fault.

      Look, what use is a theory if it doesn't match the real world? Free market capitalism's desirable results come from specific predictions about how consumers behave. And if those predictions doesn't match up with how consumers really behave, then the theory has little or no use. A good economic theory shouldn't make demands on how we spend out money, it should take that as a given and develop the rest accordingly.

      After all, the economy exists to benefit US, not the corporations. Corporations are just a tool that are supposedly designed to maximize useful economic output.

      --
      I came here for a good argument
  8. Net Neutrality is the wrong focus, I think by volkris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think this Network Neutrality debate is a bit misfocused. If we want to ensure the ability of people to speak their minds on the Internet we would do better to attack the near-universal practice of ISPs blocking ports and restricting the use of home servers.

    THAT is where the free speech comes from: the people. The NN debate seems to be rather focused on the ability to choose between large companies that want to profit through our expression. Even though there may be more options it still represents a consolidation of content. If we want information we must get it from these providers; if we want to share it we must share it through the providers. As a group they become the gatekeepers.

    It doesn't have to be this way. If more ISPs would let us use even our measly aDSL uplinks (that we pay for) to legally serve our own content, people would be able to self-publish in all sorts of new ways. Once we can participate directly in the internet without the middleman of some company with servers we'll unleash an amazing amount of potential and innovation.

    Software would be created to deal with the technical challenges that would arise, perhaps with legitimate P2P providing interesting solutions to some of these problems. Network-centric computing would get a huge boost too. In any case, that small change in SOP has the potential to really change the way people view and use the Internet.

    Network Neutrality proponents love to talk about a level playing field... lets level the playing field between the consumers and the providers as a whole.

  9. Re:As a North Dakotan by Firehed · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sounds like that says that if an ISP who's also dealing in VOIP wants to prioritize their VOIP packets above your bit-torrent and whatnot, they're free to do so provided that Skype, Vonage, etc get that same prioritization.

    Although it sounds like you're coming from the other side of things - those ISPs who don't have VOIP services are going to send them to the bottom of the stack. Still, I take some comfort in knowing that they're going to have to either screw themselves or help their competitors (or, rather, not abuse their position of power and screw their competitors while helping themselves) whenever there's some new market that they want to enter. I see no reason to be racist towards bits, but then again I think I'd put up with slightly slower pira^H^H^H^H Linux .iso downloads in order to have all of my VOIP calls not make that horrible "your upload sucks right now" screeching noise.

    --
    How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
  10. Re:Republic vs Democracy by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Moderation -1
        100% Troll

    How appropriate that the rightwingers will lie and spew whatever venom (like "questioning the president is treason") they want, but simple statements comparing their Republican Party behavior to Democrats is called "Troll" by their trollMods. TrollMods are the Slashdot equivalent of the filibuster, but not as effective or boring.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  11. mod parent up +1 Insightful by Sean0michael · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I think this is a very informed post, and I'm glad you bring up how ISPs restrict users from using their own web servers. As far as I can tell, I pay for the ability to send and receive packets. It shouldn't matter what application sends the packets. In this respect, I am no different from Google, who also pays to send and receive packets. As long as the user fees are enough to cover the cost of operating, maintaining, and improving fiber, routers, etc. then I see no reason why they should charge anyone more than anyone else.

    The only reason I can see that telcos would go after companies like Google is that Google has oodles of money. Because they have the ability to may far more than they do now, the telcos would love to make some extra cash via packet "protection money." It'd be a shame if your packets should come across a Moe Green Special. But a special contribution to our humble efforts might keep your packets from bein' found in the Hudson wid' a pair of cement shoes. Don't think they wouldn't hesitate to do the same to the average consumer if they felt they could earn a few quick bucks. Fortunately, the very reason that Google has oodles of money is because consumers love them. So if Google decided not to send packets via particular ISPs, consumers would be in an uproar. After seeing that, no other ISP would consider doing anything like that, and the other one would lose a large customer base.

    --
    Funtime Candy Wow! - my plan for eventually conquering Japan.
  12. Hello theory, meet reality by Travoltus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In reality, both the DSL and Cable company will adopt the same behavior because they stand to get more money extorting content providers than they stand to get from winning one another's subscribers over.

    Plus they are gambling on consumer apathy, as in if Youtube is slow because they're not paying the extortion fee, the customer doesn't know that Youtube is slow because it's de-prioritized, so the consumer just forgets Youtube and moves on. You know what's happening to Youtube but no one wants to hear your explanation because it's too techy and too political for them. They'd rather hear the latest gossip about American Idol.

    Now before you respond, let us assume that there are no Government laws about who can establish a competing cable modem company. Let's say you want to compete. That means you'll be up the streets in the city and laying your own network of fiber alongside your competition's existing network of underground fiber. What happens when a third competitior comes along and tries to do the same thing? And then a fourth, or fifth? Those streets will never be driveable because everyone's always tearing up the roads to lay new fiber. That's why you only see one company servicing a city.
    ^^^^^ This, ladies and gentlemen, is one solid fact that laissez-faire dreamers can't wrap their brains around. :)

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    --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!