Slashdot Mirror


IEEE Seeks For Ethernet To 'Go Green'

alphadogg submitted a piece at the NetworkWorld site about the IEEE's efforts to introduce energy efficiency to Ethernet use. The group's Energy Efficient Ethernet group is looking into methods by which standards can be tweaked to encourage power savings. Current plans include ways to make computers 'choosier' about what level of bandwidth they're using. Idle systems would only run at 10Mbps, while email might draw 100Mbs, and scale up to 1000Mbps for large downloads and streaming video. The group is planning to discuss changes to the Ethernet link and higher layers. No restrictions are planned for device manufacturers, although the article suggests some companies might try to use energy efficiency as a competitive advantage. The EEE group estimates some $450 million a year could be saved via the use of energy efficient Ethernet technology.

20 of 166 comments (clear)

  1. Saving energy now by jbeaupre · · Score: 5, Funny

    Seems they are saving energy by throttling bandwidth for the article. Any manage to read it?

    --
    The world is made by those who show up for the job.
  2. Acronym confusion? by MECC · · Score: 5, Funny

    Once Apple adds the ability to negotiate EEE in Macs, they'll call it iEEE.

    --
    "We are all geniuses when we dream"
    - E.M. Cioran
    1. Re:Acronym confusion? by mrfantasy · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's the IEEE Energy Efficient Ethernet Initiative.

      Or, the IEEEEEEI.

      Commonly pronounced "eye-six-N-eye".

      --

      -- Of course I'm paranoid. I'm a sysadmin.

  3. I have an idea by Salsaman · · Score: 5, Funny

    Use more zeros and fewer ones.

  4. Power over Ethernet Could Help by Kadin2048 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One of the easiest ways that the Ethernet people could encourage energy efficiency would be by promoting greater use of Power Over Ethernet. By moving networked devices away from each having an individual wall wart, which are typically inefficient (as well as inconvenient), PoE lets you concentrate the AC to DC conversion in one place, for greater efficiency. As long as you don't have terribly long cable runs, I think there would be a significant net savings overall.

    The number of networked devices people are going to have in their homes is only going to grow. I think a big segment could be in "Micro NAS" devices, basically single HD boxes that plug in to a home network and add storage that's accessible from any computer in the home. They're smaller and cheaper than RAIDed NAS solutions, but more convenient for people who have multiple computers than a FireWire or USB2.0 hard drive. And then you have routers, WiFi APs, network cameras, set-top-boxes for playing back video and audio, etc. All of those light-draw devices could be powered over the network connection instead of each having a wall wart.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Power over Ethernet Could Help by GigsVT · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Running power over tiny 24 gauge wires is very inefficient too. Try again.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:Power over Ethernet Could Help by p0tat03 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      An idea I've always thought about is converting to DC supplies indoors. AC has an advantage in terms of long-distance transmission, but in this day and age a HUGE part of our electric use is in devices that require DC power. Hell, many of the things that run AC (like lights) can in fact run DC with nary a problem. It's always boggled my mind why we have a bajillion power bricks sitting around, each venting heat like mad converting AC/DC, when in fact we could have a much more efficient "main" transformer installed in the house that does it on a larger scale and feeds our devices directly.

      I imagine this would be even more useful for heavy power using environments like server farms - imagine if you can do with the huge boxy PSUs in every single box and just have a unified DC power source that can FAR more efficient than what's in the average beige boxen.

    3. Re:Power over Ethernet Could Help by NekoXP · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just because it doesn't generate heat doesn't mean it isn't losing power. The energy wasted in relation to the power on the cable is probably quite high (DC doesn't travel well, that's why wall power is AC remember) compared to just wiring up wall sockets and using warts or switching PSUs.

      You're just transferring the wall-wart to another room though, and making the loss over the cable add to the power inefficiency. Imagine the extra airconditioning provision the room with the new site-wide AC-DC converter will need :D

      PoE is a clever way to power devices that are in hard to power places (where you can wire a network using a thin cable but far away from a power socket) and keeps devices cheap (no need to do anything but DC-DC conversion from PoE to components) but it's not any better energy-efficiency-wise.

      Can't this IEEE stuff they're talking about simply be built into drivers? I know my laptop ethernet (Intel) has the ability to scale down the ethernet speed when the battery is in use, or during standby and so on. Would it cause too much trouble to have the driver anticipate and schedule a renegotiation on a power source change or based on activity? Why would ethernet vendors need to be involved if it was simply a driver 'problem' - apart from having to write drivers that do it for their hardware (which most of them DO already).

      Can't we have a sysctl or a sysfs tweak in Linux/BSD/whatever to demonstrate it and see if it even helps? Does networking hardware at the other end (for instance a 32-port Cisco switch) actually use less power if half it's ports are at 10mbit rather than 100mbit?

      Can't we do this with wireless? 802.11b etc. already has power calibration built in but could it pull it back when the bandwidth requirement isn't so high, saving battery life and not polluting the airwaves with high powered chatter? My card uses the same transmit power whatever the state of the laptop is..

    4. Re:Power over Ethernet Could Help by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Informative



      An idea I've always thought about is converting to DC supplies indoors. AC has an advantage in terms of long-distance transmission, but in this day and age a HUGE part of our electric use is in devices that require DC power. Hell, many of the things that run AC (like lights) can in fact run DC with nary a problem. It's always boggled my mind why we have a bajillion power bricks sitting around, each venting heat like mad converting AC/DC, when in fact we could have a much more efficient "main" transformer installed in the house that does it on a larger scale and feeds our devices directly.

      I imagine this would be even more useful for heavy power using environments like server farms - imagine if you can do with the huge boxy PSUs in every single box and just have a unified DC power source that can FAR more efficient than what's in the average beige boxen.


      It is a good idea; in fact it's such a good idea that people have been thinking about ways to try and implement it in datacenters for a while. Unfortunately one of the bigger problems is that most motherboards don't run off of a single voltage; they have +5, -5, +3.3, +12, and so on. There has been a push by some big server-farm operators, Google in particular, to encourage board makers to produce mobos that only require a single +12V supply, because then you could do exactly what you say: have a big AC to DC converter somewhere (probably running from a medium-voltage AC main) and then distribute the 12VDC around to the racks.

      It was a Slashdot article back in September:
      http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/ 26/2039213

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    5. Re:Power over Ethernet Could Help by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Informative

      (DC doesn't travel well, that's why wall power is AC remember)

      This is a very common misconception. Low voltages don't travel well because you need more current (i.e: amps) to carry the same amount of power and this requires bigger wires. The main reason your wall power is AC is because it's easier and cheaper to build transformers for AC that convert high voltages (for distribution) into low voltages (for usage).

      DC is actually used in electrical distribution. It's known as HVDC and it's actually more efficient then AC because it doesn't have to contend with capacitance issues.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  5. Well Duh!! by eclectro · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Another suggestion - Stop all the spamming. There must be a coal-powered powerplant's worth of electricity right there.

    --
    Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
  6. What about the power supplies... by russ1337 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sounds like someone is really starting at the wrong end. IMHO.

    I'd estimate that power supply inefficiency chews up more than this proposal will ever save. If you spent your time making the power supplies of PC's, Switches, routers more efficient you'd probably have a greater impact. How about better efficiency in the FET's, transistors and amplifier circuitry? Last time I checked, my Ethernet looms didn't get that hot. (isn't it all about "(i^2).R"?. Heck turning off the light in the switch room probably does more to save power. Plus all the heat im my server room is from the servers, not the Ethernet. If your that worried, switch to fiber.

    I thought the transfer of data at the physical layer was through the transfer of 'holes' anyway.

    1. Re:What about the power supplies... by zaf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Exactly. All the hundreds of devices independently converting AC voltage to DC all day long is far more power waste than what's inside the CAT5. Speaking of, whatever happened to the push for DC datacenters? As far as I can tell, there's still no widely-used DC standard as an option for most of the devices in a small-medium sized environment

  7. Question? by SnarfQuest · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Does 100 (or 1000) really take that much power to download one "file", or is it the same amount of power used, just in a shorter time period?

    Or is it power used while idle? Does a 1000 device comsume more power idling in that mode than a 10 device would?

    --
    Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
  8. By any chance... by ivan256 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...is this group led by ethernet equipment vendors? Perhaps vendors who are unhappy with the recent decline in equipment upgrades since people aren't upgrading from gigabit or even to gigabit from 100mbit in a way that helps their stock price sufficiently?

    It seems to me that, considering the number of ports active out there, they're talking about a tiny amount of savings per port for a total investment that could have a much larger effect if spent elsewhere.

    Hell, I bet more power is wasted by the power supplies, overly conservative fan controls, uncleaned air filters, shorted out UPS batteries that should have been replaced decades ago, overpowered CPUs, and crappily written firmware of the currently deployed switches than is consumed by transmission losses.

  9. Re:Saving energy now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    For broadcom Ethernet PHY chips, they use about 1W/port when configured as 1000BaseT (GigE). GigE require some heavy duty DSP filtering as well as driving 4 pairs of bidirectional transceiver. They would burn less power when they are running at 100BaseT which only to drive 1 pair of receive and transmit. Not sure if there are significant saving going down to 10BaseT as the number of transmit pairs and the DSP's are dominant.

    While this might not seem a whole lot of power, when you are looking at Enterprise size (say a few hundreds to thousands ports) setup, there can potentially be savings at the few hundred watts to thousand watts range.

  10. I recall the first time I noticed ethernet power by erroneus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    At an office I once worked, there were a lot of spare switches laying about after upgrading to 1000BaseT. They were considered "spare" or whatever, but there was a great many... so I sorta brought one home and mounted it into my rack and used it for a couple of months. The next two electric bills made me rethink how nice it looked to have a 24 port switch in my rack instead of that cheapy 8 port sitting on a shelf. It consumed a NOTABLE amount of power. Now, there were other things involved I'm sure... things like the changes of the seasons, global warming and all that. But when I brought the switch back to the office and went back to my cheapy 8 port again, I saw a change in my power bill.

    If I ever decide to spend money on a nice looking switch, I'll be sure to reference the power draw of the units I review.

  11. Re:Measurable? by Matt_Bennett · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, it is pretty surprising how much current Gigabit takes- The output drives usually work in a current mode, and they draw 40mA per pair- since gigabit uses 4 pairs, that's 160mA on each end of a gigabit link. *But* the big difference is in what happens when the link is idling- 10mbit only puts through link test pulses, but 100Mbit and Gigabit both keep up idle patterns that are basically encoded strings of no information- this keeps both ends of the link ready to accept data- 10Mbit has to transmit a synchronization series of pulses to make sure both ends are clocking at the same rate. For 100 and gig, at least to the output drivers, they draw the same amount idling or transmitting at line-speed.

  12. Patch cables are now easier than ever! by PainBreak · · Score: 5, Funny

    So a straight-through is: Green white / Green / Green white / Green / Green white / Green / Green white / Green Sweet. Crossovers then would be: Green white / Green / Green white / Green white / Green / Green / Green / Green white So much easier to remember! Thanks, IEEE!

  13. Re:Saving energy now by phayes · · Score: 3, Informative

    Given the number of times that autonegotiation has given me headaches because supposedly compliant devices couldn't agree on how to setup a connection, I wouldn't want to set this up on any of my networks. I just can't see myself explaining to the CIO that the reason that the ERP is slow to the point of being unusable is because the core switches renegotiated their bandwidth down to 10Mbit/sec overnight when they were unused and were unable to ramp it back up again correctly. There is a reason that autonegotiation is often disabled & it's called experience...

    --
    Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue