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Why Software is Hard

GoCanes writes "Salon's Scott Rosenberg explains why even small-scale programming projects can take years to complete, one programmer is often better than two, and the meaning of 'Rosenberg's Law.' After almost 50 years, the state of the art is still pretty darn bad. His point is that as long as you're trying to do something that has already been done, then you have an adequate frame of reference to estimate how long it will take/cost. But if software is at all interesting, it's because no one else has done it before."

10 of 409 comments (clear)

  1. Programming without cookies by Allicorn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Programming websites that let you actually view a page without requiring a cookie is obviously hard for the folks at Salon.

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  2. Re:Becuase People don't know what they want! by cowscows · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I design buildings for a living, and I've dabbled in programming, and I think architecture and software development have a whole lot in common.

    Your step one in "building a house" can go through all 6 of the steps that you have listed for software development. We get hired by clients, sometimes they have a good idea what they want, sometimes they don't. Sometimes what they want is feasible, sometimes it isn't. It's not unusual for even smaller projects to drag on for years, because the client keeps changing his/her mind. Many projects that cross our desks will never be built.

    Many projects are not the traditional design phase ->building phase. They often overlap, and it's pretty messy.

    I could go on for paragraphs with the similarities that I see between software design and architecture, but I'll save that for another post.

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    One time I threw a brick at a duck.

  3. Too many ad-hoc hacks by Peaker · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The software world is in a very poor state indeed.

    I think that once someone improves the situation of software architecture and programming languages so that programmers don't have to mess with ad-hoc hacks but instead write the logic that they want to implement, then software will cease to suck.

    The main problem is Operating Systems architecture and Programming Languages.
    Due to lack of time, I will only list a few of the Operating Systems problems that weren't solved after more than 30 years of OS development:
    1. Don't allocate resources sanely. One program (even worse when it has many threads) that is wanting more memory and more CPU will get the entire User Interface to a halt, even though guaranteeing the required resources for a smooth UI is so cheap. (i.e: Instead of guaranteeing 0.5% of the memory/cpu to the UI so its always smooth, even this 0.5% goes as an extra 0.5% boost to the program that's already got 99.4%)
    2. Offer an unnecessarily(historically) complicated model to programs, where there are multiple spaces of memory (malloc'able/sbrk memory, and file system space), even though these memory types are actually interchangable and when you malloc, your RAM is moved to disk, and when you use a file, it often allocated RAM. Instead, operating systems should just expose one type of memory, that is always non-volatile and persistent, so that programs don't have to worry about converting/serializing back and forth between these memory types.
      This would also get rid of the unnecessary bootup/shutdown sequence all programs are currently dealing with.
    3. Does not offer a high-level world of network-transparent primitives, that allows all method calls to transparently run over a network. If this existed, we would not see the abomination that is web-forms+AJAX and the rest of this ultra-complicated world that still does not work nearly as well as local GUI's. Instead of extending the web to support GUI functionality (poorly), we should have seen GUI's be extended to transparently reach over the network. The X protocol is similar, but not good enough as it transmits too low-level primitives (pixel data and mouse movements) and is also an alternative and not a standard GUI API that the operating system offers.
    4. The security model, using users, groups and assigning those to objects is of very rough granulity, requires a system administrator to modify the model (users/groups) and does not allow fine-grained control over the access of entities (processes) to objects (i.e: As a non-administrator, I cannot prevent my mp3 player from accessing the network or deleting the files it can read).
      Instead, a capability-security model should be used (not POSIX capabilities, but EROS/KeyKos type ones), which is much simpler to use, verify and much more powerful and fine-grained. This would also facilitate secure movement of components between computers - which could be done automatically by the OS to improve performance. More on that on a later post.


    1. Re:Too many ad-hoc hacks by mcrbids · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Addressing your points:

      1) How do you know a GUI application from a non-GUI one? What about programs that are run locally, but viewed remotely, and vice versa? What constitutes a "GUI" application?

      2) But you are allocating different types of "memory"! See Leaky Abstractions for more information on this. Your "everything is memory" model sounds nice, but lacks a few key components.... When I fclose() a file, I have a STRONG assurance that the file has been saved and wouldn't go away if the power failed. That's not the case in your "everything is memory" model...

      3) You are either talking about a security nightmare or pixie dust. How does computer B know that it's OK to run code from computer A? See other comments on #4

      4) Capability security requires somebody to set up all those !#@!@# permissions. POSIX, by contrast, is very simple and requires little effort to maintain. Is POSIX ideal in all situations? No. But it's adequate in most circumstances without a lot of effort, and it's usually better to have a "just barely suits" possibility with a decent default than a perfect possibility with a lousy default. Perhaps that explains why your touted EROS operating system died on the vine?

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      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
  4. Good programming is a boundaries problem by argoff · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One thing I've noticed about companies is that they try to treat programmers like factory workers. Expect each one to be interchangeable and jump in anywhere on the "assembly line" at any place at any time for any piece of code. However, programming takes understanding, and complex programming takes complex understanding. Even a good programmer fixing a bug may need to analyze surrounding code for several hours before changing a single line.
    Unlike most engineering projects that are completed and done, most programming is a living growing process that is constantly changed modified and improved.

    That implies that there is a need for specialisation and clear boundries, to assign "ownership" or "territory" over certain parts of code. A programmer who understands it and gets the last say on how it's changed and have clear non-arbitrary rules for changing that "territory". Like in open source projects. If you want a kernel fix, you submit it to the proper maintainers, or make your own fork, but no corporate bureaucrat comes along and micromanage how the code is merged and managed.

  5. Re:Programmers by fireboy1919 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Most cooking projects don't take more than 10 man-hours, but pretty much every programming project does. And, furthermore, mostly when the chef makes a mistake it's obvious to her.

    Neither condition hold for programming. It's for this reason that I think that, in general, *two* programmers can program faster than one. At least, me and my partner can program code that's more bug-free together than we can when we program separate projects, and that makes a difference. If the project is sufficiently large - i.e. takes longer than about 10 hours, the cost of communication between two people is less than the cost of switching. :)

    While we're at it, I think that there's another misconceptions in this interview.

    programmers are programmers because they like to code -- given a choice between learning someone else's code and just sitting down and writing their own, they will always do the latter

    Two of the five developers at my little software company are programmers because they like to figure things out. So we almost always figure someone else's code out before we do anything ourselves. There are varying degrees of this in a lot of the developers we've got there. I would say that none of us will write anything ourselves unless it saves us a considerable period of time.

    But even more, if you had a relative who was always wondering, "What is it that you do all day?" you could hand my book to that relative and say, This is what my work is really like.

    No. I couldn't. My experience as a developer is nothing like what he's described. And he didn't talk about the phenomenon of unknowns that I've noticed - for every project I do, if I estimate how long the known things will take, dealing with unknowns will generally take 60% longer (so multiple time estimates by 3 is generally correct). He didn't talk at all about testing.

    Almost everything he talked about are things that I thought would be true when I started but that have ended up more or less untrue. Discipline coding makes a difference. Automated unit testing catches most problems, and regression testing finds almost all the rest, and not everybody does these things.

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  6. Re:Ah! The great unknown... by SQLGuru · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually, every instructor I've had works in the industry. Not *DID WORK*....but *WORKS*. Classes are at night. It's in Austin, so there are plenty of studios to pull from. I've had instructors that have worked on games from all eras and genres. Some of the companies that represents: Sony and SOE, Midway, NCSoft, and Microsoft. Plenty who have started their own studios after having worked at bigger ones, too.

    http://www.austincc.edu/techcert/Video_Games.html

    It's not a degree program (yet), but I'm not too worried about that since I already have a CS degree. For me, it's more about having fun, learning some new stuff, and making good contacts for when I'm ready to jump into the industry.

    Check out the list of names on the Advisory Board and the list of Instructors. There are some influential names on that list.

    Layne

  7. Re:Many "software engineering" books are trash. by jgrahn · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A large number of the modern books suggest UML as a solution. Anyone who has actually employed UML knows that it's virtually nothing but hype. Yes, a UML class diagram may be somewhat useful when demonstrating how existing code is structured, and a sequence diagram may prove helpful in showing the flow of messages between objects. But it's unsuitable when used for the design of a large-scale system. One you get beyond 10 or so classes, UML diagrams become too complex to work with, and are basically useless.

    Utter bullshit. I use UML for not only analysis, but design, programming and working on things in daily life. It's a matter of understanding the techniques. I've designed four cooperative wire transfer subsystems using it myself.

    I sometimes wonder if it's a questions of people who naturally see things as images, versus people who don't.

    Anyway, I'm with the grandparent. A small class or state diagram can be useful to me, but I get lost very quickly in a big or detailed one. And when I go into details, I soon find that what I want to say is easier to express in text, where I am not limited to the few languages permitted by the UML.

  8. Re:Once again... by kestasjk · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The simple fact is there are no analogies for software development, software, or the software business.

    This thread is full of analogy after analogy.
    • Software dev isn't building dev; the building can't be used incomplete, the building won't have to be changed, the building doesn't have to inter-operate with and depend on other buildings.
    • Software dev isn't like engineering cars or spacecraft; there is no finished product in software, and again you can use software even when incomplete.
    • Selling software isn't like selling cars; cars can't be copied
    • Selling software isn't like selling music/books/any other IP; other forms of IP are usually only used once, software is the only usable system that is entirely IP.

    I think if you want to have a discussion amongst people who develop a software you have to ditch the analogies, because none apply. The reasons software development takes longer that you might think, or the reasons software is difficult to create, sometimes doesn't give the expected return, sometimes is buggy, etc, doesn't have anything to do with cars or buildings or spacecraft.
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  9. Software engineering is still not taken seriously by El+Nigromante · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The article's title gives an indication of this (as some other comments have pointed out): it talks about "programming" but not "software engineering" as a whole.

    Still many companies hire people with not enough computer science knowledge, for performing software engineering tasks. You can do this, but the results cannot be good (at least in the long term).

    I think this is because software is usually successful, in the short term. It apparently solves the problem and the customer gets satisfied. Therefore, why "losing" time and money making documents (where experience gets archived) or performing a good design?

    If you create software, how often do you (your organization) apply these concepts?:

    - Life cycle of a project,
    - Gantt and Pert diagrams,
    - Risk management,
    - Ishikawa diagrams,
    - Code complexity,
    - Software quality assurance,
    - Coding style standards,
    - Documentation standards,
    - Software patterns...

    Have you ever wondered why Linux is still failing to widely conquer business marketplace?

    Satisfaction - both for companies and indivual programmers - should be switched from being creative to getting a good job done. We still have much to learn.