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RIAA Says CDs Should Cost More

EatingSteak writes "The folks over at Techdirt just put up a great story today, with the RIAA claiming the cost of a CD has gone down significantly relative to the consumer price index. The RIAA 'Key Facts' page claims that based on the 1983 price of CDs, the 1996 price should have been $33.86. So naturally, you should feel like you're getting a bargain. Sounds an awful lot like the cable companies saying cable prices are really going down even though they're going up."

23 of 540 comments (clear)

  1. My eyebrows are raised.... by BWJones · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Funny (not as in ha ha) because as I recall back in 1983 the record companies acknowledging that CDs *were* expensive but that the price would come down as the number of CD sales went up. Back then a record album ran around $7 US and CDs were anywhere from $13-18 US and I could as a 13 year not afford many CDs, but did I ever load up on all those punk 45s, likely outspending what I would have on CDs over time. What the record companies can not apparently figure out is that if priced affordably, some sales are money in the pocket versus no sales and no money in the pocket. Judging from the precipitous fall in music sales and revenues over the past few years from lousy music, over priced music, DRM and bad will from the RIAA, they obviously just don't get it. Now, if they were smart.... record companies would *give away* music from bands just starting out and from the biggest bands out there and make money from tours. Bands in the middle of the spectrum could be the "middle-class" of the record companies that could provide the most profit after small bands graduate into the middle class and start selling their music, touring as they want.

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    1. Re:My eyebrows are raised.... by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Correct. The 1983 price of CDs reflected the costs as an immature technology. Production costs for digital music have plummeted, as have the costs associated with pressing CDs. Similarly, in 10 years, the cost of an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray (whichever wins) will be a lot lower than current prices. It won't cost $500 a player, it'll cost more like $100.

    2. Re:My eyebrows are raised.... by iocat · · Score: 5, Funny

      In 1983, CDs were considered this magical reference format, occupying roughly the same audiophile space now occupied by... vinyl records.

      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

    3. Re:My eyebrows are raised.... by sk999 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well stated - matches my recollections as well. The price of CD's has NEVER come down since they were first introduced, and it is only because of inflation that their relative price is now on a par with that of record albums from yon times of yore. Taking 1983 as a reference point for what CD's OUGHT to cost, when CDs were a new technology, is just insanity.

    4. Re:My eyebrows are raised.... by dtfinch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You can bounce a CD off a wall without scratching it. It's not until they land on the floor afterwards, spinning as they slide across the rough surface, that you have to worry about scratches.

    5. Re:My eyebrows are raised.... by NormalVisual · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They'll quickly realize that the loss in revenue caused by the huge drop in sales is not worth it in the least, and the price will come right back down.

      Or more likely, they'd blame the drop in sales on piracy and direct their wholly-owned subsidiary members of Congress to push yet more ridiculous legislation through in support of their dying business model at the expense of the citizenry.

      --
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    6. Re:My eyebrows are raised.... by dubl-u · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just like everything else, CDs are subject to supply and demand market forces.

      Well, no, they aren't, not entirely.

      If one sugar producer decides the "true" price of sugar is $15 a pound, then you can buy sugar from somebody else. But if you want to buy the latest Weird Al or Madonna album, there's only source. It's a monopoly, an in theory limited but in practice eternal one called "copyright". If they double the price of the hot Madonna release, there are a lot of people who won't think that Weird Al is just as good, and vice versa.

      It's also important to note that RIAA is a trade association of major music producers, not a single producer. If the major labels (heaven forbid!) were to get together and, say, fix prices then market forces would also not apply. Not that they would do such a thing; RIAA is here to help us. I'm just talking hypotherically, you see.

    7. Re:My eyebrows are raised.... by AxemRed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think that it's their business model that is failing... Rather, they are failing at their business model. Granted, the current system needs some tweaks. But the main problem is that the record companies are just not doing their job. Their whole purpose is to go out and find music that people will like and then market it to people. They are doing the opposite though... They are trying to TELL people what music to like instead of finding music that people WILL really like.

    8. Re:My eyebrows are raised.... by Cauchy · · Score: 5, Funny

      their wholly-owned subsidiary members of Congress

      That's just silly---no member of Congress is a wholly-owned subsidiary of any one company. Ownership of any member of Congress is a much more complex beast involving many different investors.

    9. Re:My eyebrows are raised.... by mehu · · Score: 5, Interesting

      All I can say is, be glad you don't live in Japan. CDs here generally sell for around ¥3000-3500 ($25-29 at the current exchange rate of ¥120:$1). Singles are generally ¥1000-1600 ($9-14). What's worse is that the prices are printed on the back label, so pretty much every store has the same price- you don't get those "Virgin Special Price $9.99" stickers anywhere.

      Then again, practically every high school girl has a $5000 Louis Vuitton purse (god those things are fugly), so it's not like there's a big bargain-conscious consumer base. And there's always the rental stores like Tsutaya, which seem to have more CDs than DVDs, so the thrifty can rent a CD for a couple bucks & copy it to their minidisc/MP3 player.

    10. Re:My eyebrows are raised.... by MojoRilla · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think that it's their business model that is failing...
      Their business model is definitely failing. Their business model includes the following features:
      1. Find up and coming artists.
      2. Sign those artists to highly unfair contracts because there is no other way to get music distributed.
      3. Front artists seed money to record albums, and spend lots of money on studio magic making things sound better, all of which is recouped before artists actually make any money off royalties.
      4. Promote those artists through radio, which they control through payola.
      5. Control the distribution channels. Distributors won't work with non RIAA music.
      6. Sell full CDs even when people only want one song. Include three good songs and seven filler cuts.
      7. Rotate media every 10 to 20 years and re-sell their back catalog over and over. They successfully did this with records, tapes, and CDs. They have been unsuccessful with products like eight track and minidisc. The jury is still out on SACD and DVD-audio, but it isn't looking good.
      8. ...
      9. Profit!
      This is failing in the following ways:
      1. As you point out, they are not doing a good job of finding artists. They are trying to manufacture artists.
      2. Unfortunately, the RIAA's monopoly on distribution is ending. The internet is now a better way to distribute music.
      3. The cost of recording has been drastically reduced due to affordable computer recording software. The RIAA no longer has a monopoly on well recorded music.
      4. Radio is no longer the only way to hear music. The internet is making inroads here as well.
      5. Brick and mortar stores are no longer the easiest and cheapest way to distribute music. The internet is more convient. The RIAA resisted selling music on the internet, perhaps because their monopoly distribution system was threatened. So because convenient music wasn't available, people started sharing files.
      6. People are fed up with having to buy an entire CD when they only want a song. The internet makes it possible to only buy the tracks people want.
      7. People are fed up with rotating media. They are largely satisfied with the quality of CDs. They don't want to rebuy media.
  2. I'm rich!! by AmigaHeretic · · Score: 5, Funny

    My pirated music collection just tripled in value! I guess it's worth the trouble to back it all up to DVDs now.

  3. Marketing costs by websitebroke · · Score: 5, Interesting

    FTFA:

    For every album released in a given year, a marketing strategy was developed to make that album stand out among the other releases that hit the market that year. Art must be designed for the CD box, and promotional materials (posters, store displays and music videos) developed and produced. For many artists, a costly concert tour is essential to promote their recordings.

    How about you all agree to stop marketing the CDs and just let the people choose what they think is good, rather than trying to tell them? We'd all save millions.

  4. Without doing actual research... by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 5, Informative
    Some things in 1983 were cheaper. But many were more expensive. Even in absolute dollars, not even counting inflation.

    CDs are STILL $13-18 (unless they are at Costco or "on sale", usually), but back in 1983, a decent computer cost $2000 (you can't even buy a computer that bad now, for as little as $299).

    Even a nice calculator was about $50 or so (better ones now for under $20). A Color TV (A heavy CRT, 13 channels, click-click tuner) was 2 - 3 times what they cost now (for 121 channels, multi inputs, remote, etc. etc.)

    The list goes on and on and gets "worse" (for the RIAA argument) when adjusting for inflation. LOTS of stuff is far cheaper than it has ever been.

    Bah.

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
  5. #include <derisive_laughter.h> by ewhac · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Fact: The unit cost of a single CD, silkscreened, in a jewel case, with six-page four-color liner notes, quantity 5,000: USD$0.91.

    Quantity 10,000: USD$0.79.

    Explain to me again why these fsckers cost $16.00?

    Now then, what was the per-unit pressing cost, quantity 10,000, of a CD in 1980? If we calculate MSRP as a percentage multiplier of the raw pressing cost, what should music CDs cost today?

    Schwab

  6. Cost Of Production Is A Very Small Amount by domukun367 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ben Woods' argument is correct, if we are talking about a piece of electronics, where, say, 90% of the cost of that piece of electronics is in the production. However, only a very small amount of the cost of the cd (less than 1% if 1c for the CD and 3c for the case/cover) is in the PRODUCTION of the CD.

    Most of the cost of a CD is in the marketing and (of course) profits for the record company. Sure there are a few extras, like the pittance they give the artist, but the majority of the cost is MARKETING. This gets more and more expensive as they get more and more ridiculous in their marketing and the cost of marketing increases over time.

    Another spin might be that CDs are now more expensive to produce due to all the non-redbook copy prevention measures that they keep trying to put on "CDs" now.

    --
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  7. Post-scarcity needs getting used to by Glowing+Fish · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you look at most computer or home electronic prices, the trend has been downwards over the past twenty years. Not only downwards when adjusted for inflation, downwards when adjusted for performance, but downwards in absolute prices. I wish I had stronger memories and figures to back this up, but I do remember as a child, (I was born in 1979), people just had a wildly different attitude towards electronics. A VCR, cable television, a microwave oven, color TVs...all of these were important luxury items. This could be just a artifact of me growing up, but a color television set was on par with say, a grand piano as far as how expensive it seemed.
    I do have better data for computers. I have a 1994 price guide to computers when bottom line computers, 386s cost around 1500 dollars, twice as much as a midrange new desktop would today.
    All of this is stuff most readers here know. (Although I am expecting at least a few people will correct my specifics.)
    What I have noticed, however, is that many people have not psychologically adjusted to this, even when they intellectually know it is the case. I have noticed this most at my work at Free Geek, where often people come in, with a Packard-Bell Pentium, and explain at some detail that the quad speed CD Drive works, if you just wiggle it around first. Or that their 14 inch monitor still works, but it might blink off every few minutes. Meanwhile, we get truckloads of P-4 systems every few days.
    The point is, I think many people (often older people, but not always that much older), still have a mindset that computer and electronics are rare and valuable, instead of being the mass-produced, quickly obsolete, pieces of junk they are. And I think that many of these people are honestly confused about how valuable their product is. Of course, the RIAA people know that AOL mails out millions of CDs a month (do they still do that?), and that CDs cost "under 1 dollar to make" ( wikipedia on CD manufacturing). Of course they know these things intellectually, but I really do think they have a mindset that they are producing a rare and valuable resource, and that they aren't asking for much in that they haven't raised their prices with inflation.

    Post-scarcity takes some getting used to. I consider the entertainment industries inability to come up with a more financing method that doesn't involve creating false scarcity to be one of the less harmful inabilities to adjust to a new paradigm. I consider the fact that the US political and industrial leaders really don't understand (even though they know) that the US has lost textiles 50 years ago, consumer items 40 years ago, vehicle manufacturing 30 years ago, electronic manufacturing 20 years ago and computer manufacturing 10 years ago (numbers somewhat generalized), and that all of those things are now produced overseas for a fraction of a US worker's hourly minimum wage, to be a much more dangerous symptom of the same disease.

    --
    Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
  8. Re:What a joke by littlerubberfeet · · Score: 5, Informative

    What's the cost of a physical CD? let me tell you, since I have managed some commercial releases:

    Indie artists who get stuff replicated in 1000 CD batches from OasisCd or Diskmakers pay about $1.70 per CD. These are PRESSED, retail-ready, in standard jewel cases, in color, with barcodes, spine labels and all the trimmings, shipped to your doorstep.

    So, a physical cost of a CD is $1.70 or so for non-RIAA indie music. If you go to Sony DADC or another large manufacturing house and order 100K or gold (500,000) press jobs, your cost for a retail-ready jewel case+CD is between $.60 and $.90, depending on printing options. This info is from an actual quote. 10 cents a fully packaged disc is unrealistic. Materials alone are more then that. 10 cents gets you a pressed CD with 1 silk-screened color and a mylar sleeve.

    Remember that about 50% of any retail price consists of retailer/wholesaler cuts. Indie artists who sell through Amazon watch as Amazon takes 55% of the retail price, distributing 45% to the artist. Assuming a $12.00 CD, lets break this down:
    Out of that 45% ($5.40), the artist has to fund:
    shipping to Amazon ($.25)
    Duplication ($1.70)
    17 U.S.C. 115 compulsory royalties ($.91) low end cost.
    Producer's standard 20% cut ($1.08)

    This leaves $1.46, with which the artist has to eat, promote, fund the next record, and tour on.

    Anyway, the point is, CD pricing is complex. The RIAA is wrong though. CDs should cost less, but at the expense of our convoluted, monopolistic distribution system (cartel?), not at the expense of the artists.

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  9. Re:Please, do raise the prices by littlerubberfeet · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I agree, but for a slightly different reason. I want the RIAA to jack prices through the roof. Our wonderful market economy would then allow indie record companies and artists to undercut the "cartel". That would actually be the best scenario I could think of.

    As it is, many of the indie artists I have worked with, and in some cases, recorded, price their records below the RIAA retail range of $16-$22, so they can sell more. A huge number of indie CDs are $10-$15, which is much more in line with what the market will bear.

    The RIAA will not make good decisions. They want the market to react to it. They don't want to react to the market. As long as they view the industry that way, they will continue making bad decisions.

    So let them.

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  10. Hell, that's nothing. by Rimbo · · Score: 5, Informative
    That's nothing. My CD, through a frickin' vanity effort, costs me...

    (...goes to books to make sure it's the right number...)

    • $2.20 per CD for 100 shrink-wrapped, color-printed pressed CDs,
    • about $0.85 per CD in shop setup costs, amortized over the current production run of 100 CDs,
    • $0.085x2 = $0.17 per CD in artist royalties for cover songs,
    • a whopping $2 per CD to the artist for artwork (I was being generous since I knew I wouldn't sell many)
    • CD Baby's cut of $2 per CD
    ...for a grand total of $7.22 per CD, for a vanity run of just 100 CDs. If I don't bother with an artist for the cover art, and if I sell them myself out of the back of my station wagon, it'd be only $2.37! (Take away $2 for the artist, $2 for the store, and $0.85 per for shop setup costs.) For a small-time vanity run! That includes digital distribution through Connect, iTunes, and three dozen groups I haven't even heard of, and real CDs -- not cheesy CD-R's with cheap CD Stomper labels. Plus, I have these CDs, and can sell them myself without going through CD Baby -- the agreement with CD Baby is non-exclusive. Even with iTunes, where a big label artist gets pennies per song, I get like $0.67 per $0.99 download.

    And that's with my shoddy economies of scale. I can't even imagine where the RIAA gets this kind of thinking, but I guess they gotta do what they gotta do to keep up with the price of cocaine, right? Can't imagine the weak dollar has helped them with their fine imported Columbian stuff.
  11. Re:Awesome by Technician · · Score: 5, Informative

    Another reasonable and well thought out claim from the RIAA. Someone inform Intel that a single transistor should still cost about a dollar, they're losing money by the fistful.

    They figured out how to make them faster better cheaper. Have you seen Intel's R & D budget? Intel has figured you can make a profit in volume sales. Making lots of units at low prices can cover very high production costs. They spend lots on their product to improve the quality and value. I wish I could say the same for the RIAA who in the same time frame have not improved the number of minutes or tracks on a CD and reduced quality by over compression, loss of dynamic range, and technical problems with CD's that don't work and break things.

    Q1 outlook 2007 for R & D for Intel;

    Expenses (R&D plus MG&A): Between $2.6 billion and $2.7 billion. In addition, the company expects a first-quarter restructuring charge of approximately $50 million.

    http://www.intel.com/intel/finance/bus_outlook.htm

    If the RIAA kept up with Intel in the same time frame, they would have CD's out with the $33 price point, but would have to kept up with the times. The 8088 processor ran 4.77 Megahertz. Most current Prescott P4's run at 3,400 Megahertz (3.4 GHZ)

    The 8088 had 49,000 transistors in 1978. The 286 had 134,000 transistors in 1982. The 386 had 275,000 in 1985. The 486 had 1.2 million in 1989. The pentium in 1993 had 3.1 million transistors.

    Since we are looking at a time frame of "The RIAA 'Key Facts' page claims that based on the 1983 price of CDs, the 1996 price should have been $33.86." we can take the numbers from Intel's 1983 processor the 286 at 134,000 transistors and the 1996 Pentium processor at 3.1 million transistors. (Pentium II in developement at 7.5 million transistors released a year later in 1976)

    In the same time frame the CD went from 8-12 tracks average to 8-12 tracks average. To keep up with technology like the computer, it would have had to go from about 10 tracks to about 300 tracks at about the same selling price. Napster almost reached that value.

    Intel data gleaned from; PDF aleart.. http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/core2duo/pdf/m icroprocessor_timeline.pdf

    If Intel tried to continue selling 4.77 MHZ CPU chips today at adjusted for inflation prices, they too would have volume sales problems. Somebody wake up the RIAA and have them smell the coffee.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  12. Re:What a joke by littlerubberfeet · · Score: 5, Informative

    Remember, we are talking about royalties from CD sales. The artists aren't paying themselves. They are making money from CD sales. Two possible scenarios for part 115 royalties:

    SCENARIO 1) The indie artist does a cover. They have to pay compulsory royalties. When Rusted Root did "You Can't Always Get What You Want", they had to pay royalties. Conversly, when I cover a Rusted Root song, Rusted Root is getting 9.1 cents per song per album sold in royalties from my CD sales.

    SCENARIO 2) If the indie artist wrote their own music and signed a contract with a record company, hopefully they weren't stupid. If they weren't stupid, the contract included a clause that says something like:
    -------
    15. COMPULSORY ROYALTIES
    a. All musical compositions or material recorded pursuant to this Agreement which are written or composed, in whole or in part by Artist or any individual member of Artist or any producer of the masters subject hereto, or which are owned or controlled, directly or indirectly, in whole or in part, by Artist or any individual member of Artist or any producer of the masters subject hereto (herein called "Controlled Compositions") shall be and are hereby licensed to Company:

    i. A royalty per selection equal to 100 percent (100 %) of the minimum statutory per selection rate (without regard to playing time) effective on the earlier of (A) the date such masters are delivered to Company hereunder or (B) the date such masters are required to be delivered to Company hereunder. The aforesaid rate shall hereinafter sometimes be referred to as the "Per Selection Rate";
    -------

    The above was pulled from an actual contract. It allows the artist to earn compulsory royalties on their own work, in addition to sales royalties. This is usually a good thing. As you can see, that is section 15, which is from a 32 section contract that runs 24 pages. This industry is exceedingly, needlessly complex. I wish it weren't so.

    Anyway, I hope this is a decent explaination. Remember, royalties are paid separately for both the RECORDING and the COMPOSITION.

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  13. What are they smoking? by ajs318 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What are they smoking?

    Almost every newsagent and bookshop has a photocopier. Yet people don't commonly "pirate" books and newspapers. Why? Well, because it's cheaper to buy than to pirate. It's my reckoning that if CDs cost about £3.00 (€4.55 / $5.88) each, then it would not be worth most people's while to go to the effort of copying them. Nor would anyone think twice about buying a CD at that price. The record companies could easily afford to sell CDs at for £3.00 if they didn't spend so much pursuing failed copy-prevention schemes and paying fatcats to do nothing useful. And they'd probably sell enough units to be earning more than they were before. People would be more willing to take a gamble; if it turns out to be shite, it's not such a great loss.

    Now I'm going to tell you a story. It's a sad story. About music, and greed, and the Perversity of Human Nature.

    There was a bar I used to drink in once. They had a juke box in there. An NSM Prestige, played 45s, 160 selections. 10 pence a song, six for 50p., and it was always playing. Everyone who came into the place used to walk up to the machine, look at the records, drop in a coin and put on a tune.

    Actually, the juke box wasn't always playing. For one hour a fortnight, it would be silent, while the man from the amusement machine hire company emptied the coin box, changed the records and cleaned and serviced the machine. And the bar was closed sometimes. But you get the general idea. It was a popular machine. It also played the records in the order they were arranged in the magazine, not the order in which they were selected (that way, it used only 20 bytes of RAM to store all its selections; which is important when your brain is a single-chip micro with just 64 bytes of RAM), and it was quite possible that you'd have to stay awhile to hear your track if there were a lot of selections from the other end of the machine to be played. That meant the bar sold more beer and food, since the Perversity of Human Nature is such that someone who has paid to hear a song will gladly spend a few pounds on refreshments rather than waste ten pence by leaving before the song comes around on the record machine.

    All that changed one sunny afternoon. The man from the amusement hire company came round as usual; only this time, as well as merely emptying the coin box, changing the records, cleaning and servicing the machine, he also tweaked the price up to 20 pence a song.

    After that, people just used to walk up to the machine, look at the records, and walk away again.

    And the moral of the story, if you're really choking for this story to have a moral, is that if you charge too much then people won't pay it.

    --
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