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ISP Tracking Legislation Hits the House

cnet-declan writes "CNET News.com reports that Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives announced yesterday legislation to force ISPs to keep track of what their users are doing. It's part of the Republicans 'law and order agenda,' with other components devoted to the death penalty, gangs, and terrorists. Attorney General Gonzales would be permitted to force Internet providers to keep logs of Web browsing, instant message exchanges, and e-mail conversations indefinitely. The draft bill is available online, and it also includes mandatory Web labeling for sexually explicit pages. The idea enjoys bipartisan support: a Colorado Democrat has been the most ardent supporter in the entire Congress."

13 of 332 comments (clear)

  1. Good luck by ivan256 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They may as well legislate that gravity be lessened to solve the obesity problem. It's just as feasible from a technical sense.

    1. Re:Good luck by doublem · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Shhhhhh!

      Don't give them ideas.

      the problem is, they don't realize the massive hardware costs that would be involved.

      What's more if they did understand the expense and barriers of such a plan, they wouldn't care.

      --
      "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
    2. Re:Good luck by ivan256 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Screw the hardware costs. It's just plain impossible. How can the ISP know which data is e-mail, IMs, etc?

      I don't know about you, but I connect to a mail server using SSL, and the server is not operated by my ISP. Are they going to log some unintelligible bits? Are they going to force people to use their ISP's mail server? Who is an ISP? Anybody who resells bandwidth? How will they know you're reselling bandwidth? Etc...

    3. Re:Good luck by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Note that I do not believe any of this will really happen. I do not believe we Americans will accept a totalitarian government. I don't even believe we'll accept small steps in that direction in the long run.

      How about a little bipartisan power grab, who'll continue to pass the ball back and forth every four or eight years. They'll keep the people entertained by focusing on social issues (are we pro-gay or anti-gay this year?) while the actual running of government is left to Party lead... sorry, political families like the Kennedys, Bushs and Clintons putting relatives in key positions whenever their side wins an election. Presumably in close cooperation with corporations who run large lobby groups and are the only ones with a considerable sway in day-to-day politics and pay attention to rider bills and the like. Between an election system where it's almost impossible to create a third party and so much of the mass media controlled by corporate interests, it'll seem like the will of the people. I don't think the question is "would people oppose a totalitarian government" as much as "would Americans recognize a totalitarian government before they were neck deep in one?".

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  2. Guess it's time to stop using the internet by the_humeister · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You know, I'd like find out what kind of porn or other illicit sites these legislators are surfing and then dredge that up those records to news agencies. See how that flies in their faces.

  3. Won't somebody please think of the children! by aborchers · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is just sick. Every time I hear this shrill siren about protecting the children I know they're coming for another liberty.

    I, for one, don't want my kids growing up in a country run by the thought police.

    --
    Trouble making decisions? Just flip for it.
    1. Re:Won't somebody please think of the children! by sconeu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Didn't you know that "Child Porn" is the root password to the US Constitution?

      With "Terrorism" and "Think of the Children" as the alternates?

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  4. Option Labeling of Non-Sexual Content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The draft bill is available online, and it also includes mandatory Web labeling for sexually explicit pages.

    What they need is exactly the opposite: optional Web labeling for non-sexually explicit content.

    If you think your site is safe for children then you can add a label to that effect. There could even be a well defined process where, if you labeled your site as safe-for-children and it wasn't, then you could be required to take down the safe-for-children label.

    Ideally, there wouldn't just be one safe-for-children label but a variety of specific government defined labels that identified a site as being free of specific types of content (e.g. no nude photos versus no sex photos).

  5. Oh, Congress won't pay for it. by khasim · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This will be another "unfunded mandate" where they'll just fine you if you fail to spend the money to comply.

    All in the name of "protecting the children" and "War against Terror".

    The question will be, how much money will an ISP have to spend to record everything, in a secure fashion, for years and years? And at what point will the that expense be LESS than any fine that will be levied for non-compliance?

  6. Nice work by Amoeba · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can only imagine how politicians think:

    "Hey how can we kill off a lot of small businesses so our big behemoth telecomm contributors can make more money in the long run? Ooh! increased operating costs! Our friends have the coffers to handle this while their smaller competitors die off. We'll have to make it look like something else though. Tie it to crime. Everyone hates criminals."

    --
    Do not taunt Happy-Fun Ball
  7. constitution by mobydobius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    we havent had a decent amendment in a while. time for a push for an explicit right to privacy?

    --

    "I like to wear big boy pants."
  8. Re:huh? by Tackhead · · Score: 5, Insightful
    > Why don't they just put everyone in prison? Then we wouldn't have any crime at all. Problem solved.

    The Party's goal isn't to eliminate crime by throwing everyone in jail -- it's to eliminate people who piss it off by merely being able to throw anyone in jail.

    "Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against - then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens' What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt."

    - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, 1957

    You don't have to like Rand to apppreciate that she was onto something when it came to how governments think during the design phase of legislation.

  9. Re:reference to IM and chat records misleading by nhudson35 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I interpret bills for a major civil rights lobby, and this bill's language is ambiguous. It requires, at a minimum, the retention of personal identification linked to IPs. Whereas I do see your point, that it does not enumerate retention of IM and chat logs, this draft bill is STILL scary. If the legislation passes, it is up to Alberto Gonzales to interpret it. This, the man that recently advocated the revoke of Habeus Corpus, citing the lack of its specific constitutional enumeration. The problem is that the bill's language is broad, and the AG could ASSSUME that it gives him certain powers. The bill would be less scary if it was amended with language that limits the amount of liberal interpretation that could take place. In the end, this draft represents a common problem, and a scary possibility. Politicians struggle balancing individual liberty and safety, and if passed, this bill could establish a precedent of invasion of personal privacy. All of this must be qualified by the following-- I understand the desire to protect our children at all costs. It is an emotionally charged issue, but we must not allow rational thought to be trampled by emotionally charged debate. I do not believe this bill will make us safer. I'd be interested to see how many times and ISP could not produce personal information on the IPs they regulate, and how many times failure of an ISP to produce personal information translated into the loss of a conviction for child predators. This bill represents the beginning of a slippery slope for internet privacy, and a more general affront on free speech.