German Past Haunts Gamers' Future

Wired has up a very thoughtful article examining the current anti-violent gaming trends in Germany, and reflecting on their connection to WWII. Article author Bruce Gain discusses some of the history of post-Nazi Germany, and points out how violent games rile politics in that country by reminding it of its past. Says Gain: "Some German officials link these games to an increase in violence among the young and cite at least one instance where a gamer applied the lessons learned from a first-person shooter to a real-life murderous rampage. Remove the connection, they argue, and you prevent further violence. Germany has a lot of gamers, but the violence found in many of these games is widely criticized there. It has some of the strictest video-game censorship laws in the Western world. For example, laws prohibit the sale of Counter-Strike and other titles with blood-depicting graphics switched on. But for many politicians, the laws don't go far enough."

Comments

It's such a shame

[Vengeance]

If only Adolf Hitler had not had access to videogames, the history of modern Europe would look entirely different.

Re:It's such a shame

[zippthorne]

You can't "invoke" Godwin's law any more than you can "invoke" Moore's law. They aren't formal debate rules. They're just observations. And if the discussion in question is about actual Nazis, it's pretty moot as others have mentioned.

Let's blame the Germans...

[__aaclcg7560]

All that green blood in all thosee violent video games. No wonder the Vulcans and Romulans don't like Earth.

Vote them out?

[Jaysyn]

I don't know how it works over in Germany, but over here pissing of most of your younger generation seems to be political suicide.

Re:Vote them out?

[DoktorTomoe]

You seem to suffer from the missconception that democracy actually works.

Forbidding (we are not talking "ban for minors" here) of CS is the least of Germany's IT problems. Currently, Judical battle is waged on wether to allow a "Bundestrojaner" or "Federal Trojan", a tool that would allow our Federal Police to actively and secretly swap trough the files on every of our computers (and most likely we're supposed not to enforce a strict security concept for our networks, as it'll rise suspicion.

Those were the news that led me to an active encryption of all my harddisks and an cascade of firewall servers. Not because I am child molester, terrorist or criminal, but because I handle data too sensitive for some idiot at the BKA to read.

They say it's against terrorism. Sure. Like the times our bank secrecy was abandoned for the "fight against terrorism" (Nowadays, most the time "Vater Staat" looks at bank accounts, it's for the "fight against tax evasion") Not a time to be proud being a German... Just like the rest of the western world, we again are taking huge steps towards a facist system.

Re:So they finally decided to index CS?

[KDR_11k]

Oh and a slight inaccuracy in the summary: CS isn't banned from sale (only Manhunt, Mortal Kombat and Wolfenstein 3d are), indexing prevents advertising (which includes putting it on a shelf) and sale to minors, theoretically it can still be sold to adults under the counter or in areas minors can't enter (though I don't think anyone but video rental places have such areas, sex shops and gambling dens certainly don't sell indexed games) but most stores don't stock games they can't advertise.

This is different from an 18 rating which prevents sale but still allows putting the games on store shelves and I haven't seen any stores refusing to stock these.

Whats worse, fake violence or real censorship?

[Shatrat]

They clamp down on violent games by using government censorship? It makes you wonder how much of a lesson they really learned from the failures of national socialism.

Re:Whats worse, fake violence or real censorship?

[KDR_11k]

The only real censorship is of titles that reward the player for being very brutal and contain very graphic violence, namely Mortal Kombat 1-3 and Manhunt. They also censor games that include Nazi symbols without proper context (though games remove them completely because that context requirement is vague). The rest of the "censored" games can still be sold to adults in adult-only stores or below the counter.

Re:Whats worse, fake violence or real censorship?

[KDR_11k]

The law is very clear about the kinds of propaganda that get banned, namely anything attempting to incite hate or violence against people or attempting to overthrow the government system as that's a disturbance of the peace. I bet you that no country would tolerate it if you handed out leaflets calling for a Coup d'Etat.

Re:Whats worse, fake violence or real censorship?

[pluther]

The law is very clear about the kinds of propaganda that get banned, namely anything attempting to incite hate or violence against people or attempting to overthrow the government system

That isn't true. None of these games are attempting to incite hate or violence against people, nor are they trying to overthrow any government system.

I bet you that no country would tolerate it if you handed out leaflets calling for a Coup d'Etat.

I bet you it would.

"And, if any man should advocate the dissolution of this union, let him stand free and unmolested as an example of how even the most egregious error of reason can be tolerated in a free society." (Thomas Jefferson)

Re:Whats worse, fake violence or real censorship?

[Tom]

If you wish to keep your simple views, stop reading now. Otherwise, this'll be a bit lengthy:

The BPjM is there to enforce the laws on the protection of minors ("Jugendschutz"). Its job is, in short, to check on request of certain bodies whether some game (or movie, etc.) should not be available to children. Yes, violence and sex are the usual criteria.

If it is bad for minors, the BPjM will put the title on an "index". That doesn't mean it's censored. The two main effects of being on the index are that a) you can't sell this game to minors and b) you can't run advertisement for the game (because ads are visible to minors). Yes, critics claim that this is de-facto censorship.

And, contrary to what the article claims, Counterstrike is not on the index. There was a request in 2002 and the BPjM checked the title, and decided to not index it. Since there had been a school-shooting earlier, that decision was widely critized, but the fact remains that this /. article is simply false.

For videos, books and music the BPjM regularily decides against indexing due to artistic merit. All in all, the BPjM used to be one of the hate-figures of my teenage days, yes. But that was when computer games were new and "weird", and they've shaped up to a much more reasonable world-view recently.

Maybe the article authors view should be updated to the 21st century.

How long does this need to go on?

[east coast]

Let's face facts, and not to make light the tragedy of the holocaust, but how long does a society need to live with the sins of it's past?

It's a fairly safe bet that today's German gamer isn't the same guy shoveling the bodies of holocaust victims into mass graves.

When can we get over this image of German = Nazi? How long until I don't have to feel bad about being a white American male because of slave owners who have been worm food for over a century?

We need to stop pinning the past of a society on today's citizens.

Re:How long does this need to go on?

[MWoody]

Make you a deal: I'll stop mentally drawing a line from "Germans" to "Nazis" when they stop attempting to solve their problems with fascist edicts and restrictions.

Re:How long does this need to go on?

[whathappenedtomonday]

You do have a point there, and of course I didn't RTFA, but being German I know one thing for sure: the current plans for anti "killer games" legislation - that's what violent games are called in the public discussion - have nothing whatsoever to do with the fascist / national socialist past of the country. It's the ususal "think of the children!" activism, used by politicians around the world to get a good headline in the press to suppress something they don't like (=understand).

The majority of German internet users have a very sensible opinion about the current discussion and deny the (scientifically unfounded) claims that banning certain content/games/movies/whatever will accomplish anything, while the majority of the German population - getting their education about new technology they don't use mostly from the tabloids - say that whatever will be banned will help save the kids.

So, there you go, it's once again a matter of information and - I guess - education. Lack of proper education and medienkompetenz in both politics and population mixed with overzealous right-wing politicians, guess what kind of laws this will spawn... [/rant]

Re:How long does this need to go on?

[KDR_11k]

And I'll stop treating Americans like a bunch of radical Christians when they stop considering sex worse than violence and seriously attempting to teach religious dogmas in science class...

Re:How long does this need to go on?

[7Prime]

Are you kidding about the US?

Because I've NEVER heard the Japanese-American interment camps discussed publicly, except on a rare occation on some PBS history special (which is then usually touted as liberal propoganda).

The fact is, we are only open to discussion of the civil rights movement and slavery because we were eventually able to bring closure to a lot of it. The civil rights movement was largely successful, and you don't see AS MANY hate crimes as before, and slavery was finally abolished by our own hands (or so we like to claim... most could really care less about slavery, to the north, the civil war was about control of resources, not about slavery). The only reason we can talk about our abuses aginst the indians is because it happened so long ago... and even then, we're a lot more open about slavery than we are about that.

The bottom line is, Germany is ashamed of their Nazi past because someone else had to come in and correct them on it. Abolishing slavery and civil rights were all corrected internally. But as for Japanese-American internment camps, forget it, you almost never hear about that, and every time it's brought up, it's blown off as leftist propoganda.

Re:How long does this need to go on?

[Speck'sBacon]

So, there you go, it's once again a matter of information and - I guess - education. Lack of proper education and medienkompetenz in both politics and population mixed with overzealous right-wing politicians, guess what kind of laws this will spawn... [/rant]

I whole-heartedly agree, with the caveat that it's not just the right wing politicans that engage in patronizing attempts to protect the people from themselves. You need only look at New York City's recent ban of trans-fatty acids in cooking in all restaurants in the city. New York City is widely considered one of the most left-wing cities in the US, but there, they're banning something people can avoid by simply NOT EATING IT. Nanny-staters come in all colors of the political rainbow.

Re:How long does this need to go on?

[Physician]

At least most every American has heard of the Japanese-American Internment Camps. Nobody ever speaks of the thousands of Germans who were interred in America during the second world war. In fact, thousands of German-Americans were sent to Germany in exchange for Americans. The German-Americans, being sent there against their will, were looked upon as spies and were suddenly in the middle of a war zone. The United States even asked many Latin American countries to arrest people of German descent and send them to America. The US in turn sent those to Germany in exchange for Americans. You can read all the details here: http://www.foitimes.com/internment/gasummary.htm

Re:How long does this need to go on?

[saforrest]

New York City is widely considered one of the most left-wing cities in the US, but there, they're banning something people can avoid by simply NOT EATING IT.

Really? How exactly do you know when trans-fat is used at a restaurant?

For years, there have been health laws about restaurant food preparation, e.g. for preventing the contamination of restaurant food with rodent feces. Like the New York trans fat ban, these laws are intended for the customers' benefit but are a pain for restaurants to uphold.

If we can require customers to have the smarts to know whether trans fats are in their food, what's fundamentally different about requiring them to know whether their food was prepared in a clean environment? Why have health regulations at all? Let the market decide.

Re:How long does this need to go on?

[Slithe]

(which is then usually touted as liberal propoganda) The funny thing about that is that the evacuation was supported more by liberals than conservatives:

Let it be noted that sabotage was more of a left-of-center fear at that time. Stalin had denounced "wreckers" at his show trials, and the international left had become obsessed by fascist "fifth columnists" during the Spanish Civil War. So evacuation of the Japanese from the West Coast was supported somewhat more by liberals than by conservatives. The most notable public spokesman against mass evacuations was Republican Senator Robert Taft--and the leading dissenter within the Roosevelt Administration was FBI supremo J. Edgar Hoover.

Here you all go.

[Pojut]

A little ditty I wrote on violent video games. Enjoy.

Hello all, I decided to finally write this down in response to some people asking me why I enjoy immeasurably violent video games and movies. This explanation is written using the game "Manhunt" as it's primary example, mainly because of it's subject matter (which can best be described as a "snuff video game"). PLEASE read it in it's entirety before responding, it's easy to think i'm making an uninformed point without reading the whole thing; I explain EVERY viewpoint I express.

Think about this, folks.

This "game" is not about sneakin' around, trying to see what the biggest mess you can make is. It's about much more than that. This game is in direct relation to the JTHM (Johnny the Homicidal Maniac by Jhonen Vasquez, for the uninitiated...) in all of us, the little black beast that we keep to ourselves.

Ever say "I wish he were dead", or "he makes me so angry I want to kill him"? Of course you have. Everyone has. This game is the digital manifestation of those thoughts. It's not about suffocating some guy, or creating the pink mist... This game does one thing and one thing only: it asks you a question. A very simple question to state, and frankly a very simple question to answer:

Is your black beast fictional or real?

Do you have a little playground for the demon inside of you, someplace it can go and harmlessly let out it's frustrations and rage? Or are you so jaded and blind that you cannot discern the difference between reality and fantasy?

Frankly, if you enjoy this game (along with ANY violent video game or movie, regardless of it's subject or presentation) you are not sick. You are normal. You are provided an outlet for the most primal emotions that you, as a human, have. Your most carnal instincts. If you don't like this game because the graphics suck, or the control is wonky, fine. BUT. If you despise this game because you say it's "too violent" and "unneccessary", and "too realistic", and whatever else, guess what: YOU are the sick one. That's not to say that you can't see it as being gross, or that you don't like it because you supposidly don't like violence (then why do you slow down to look at car accidents, hmm?) What it means is that if you say that violent things such as this push sane and "normal" people into being murderers in real life...well, I'm sorry, but you are wrong.

The first step anyone takes to becomming a murderer in real life is not being able to tell the difference between reality and fantasy. Manhunt is fantasy. Does that mean something similar has not happend/could not happen? No. But your experience and memories of it happening are. It's a video game. It is designed to be a playground for your little black beast.

If you take it as being anything more serious than that...well, turn yourself in now.

You have to allow the little monster to come out every now and then and release it's frustrations. If you don't, you risk becomming a quivering mass of nervous and dangerous flesh. What better place to do this than in a simulated environment with simulated violence where the only things harmed are your eyes for staring at the screen?

I have a sudden mental image...

[MWoody]

Somewhere in Germany, little Anne Frank hides in the attic, frantically trying to hide the XBox as she hears the police knocking on the door...

Re:So they finally decided to index CS?

[Zatic]

I see you get the problem here. In this case, there is no formal definition of advertising. I remember a few years back, a video gaming magazine ("gamstar") decided to not publish a review of some FPS because they feared an attorney on a save-the-world trip would have all copies seized should the game be banned (which was about to happen that month).

The sad thing is, they said they would have given the game the worst rating and advise against buying it. Still it could have been interpreted as advertising.

As for a video game store, I guess they would have to install a separate area which you would only be allowed to enter if over 18. They could advertise all they want in there. Oh, yes, it's only forbidden to advertise to minors, I should mention.

For the sake of completeness, 3 levels of "rating" in Germany are of interest here:

- Completely banned: Applies only to content that endangers constitution and state (only Manhunt, Wolfenstein 3D and Mortal Combat are banned - don't ask my why). Possession is legal as far as I know, distribution of any form illegal.

- "Indexed": Here's a list:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbotene_oder_indizi erte_Medien#In_der_Bundesrepublik_Deutschland_indi zierte_Spiele
Advertising and sale to minors illegal

- USK 18: Sale to minors illegal

not quite right

[Tom]

Ah, how simplification allows you to keep a simple world-view:

For example, laws prohibit the sale of Counter-Strike and other titles with blood-depicting graphics switched on. That's not entirely correct. The appropriate laws are for the protection of minors, so the sentence is missing its ending: to minors.

It's the software companies' choice to only produce one version and sell that to everyone. As an adult, I could (the law allows it) buy whatever brutal, bloody games or movies there are. It's just that most software companies decide to not make a difference, probably because it wouuld be more expensive to ship two versions.

There are limitations that apply to adults as well, and which have been much more appropriate to mention after the introduction of the article. For example, the display of nazi symbols is illegal in Germany, except for historic purposes. That means that most games set in WW2 can not show the nazi cross. Wolfenstein and others circumvent this by using the eagle (symbol of the armed forces during the pre-nazi period) instead.

The Past has really nothing to do with it.

[vorlich]

Understanding what the German attitude to games censorship requires a certain amount of anthropological observation. Germany is a society concerned with avoiding responsibility for negative things and constantly obsessing about the future. The need to be correct is overpowering and results in the often amusing three-minute lectures that student frequently provide in answer to a simple questions. A student's question is often not a question at all but simply a mini-lecture. Contrast this with the primary need of the English speaker to be polite and respectful.

The range of skill sets within any area of society (commerce, academia public service) is very narrow and there is less of the eclecticism common in English speaking countries. It is not unusual therefore, for people to rely heavily on "experts" to provide the necessary decision making information. Decision making is a process fraught with difficulty for the individual in German society. It is not unusual for the entire family to be involved in buying a car and for the process to be a long drawn out activity. My mother in law spent over a week "buying" a VW van whilst I took about 26 seconds to buy a new Toyota - behaviour regarded with incredulity here.

The excitement about games is a combination of a number of things including the most elderly population in Europe, moribund political arena and fear of being wrong. The model of television and print media is again very different from that of English speaking countries: The Janet Jackson Superbowl boob is fine example. In the US media, they pixelated her entire chest area. On the BBC they simply showed the clip uncensored and on German television they digitally zoomed in on the nipple. Germans find the Superbowl fiasco hilarious. Two American colleagues felt uncomfortable when I showed The English Patient in class - apparently it had some scenes of a sexual nature (Juliette Binoche washes her hair in the shower!)

At about 11 am every day most TV shows have some sequence with men's naked bums in shot (I have no idea why! They're not attractive!) and from 5:45 pm to about 6:30 pm news magazine shows often find some reason to have bare breasts on show. German newspapers don't have a page three - they have a page one. Sex is not anything anyone is at all concerned with and sexual attitudes are almost completely liberal, the sex industry is legal and subject to state regulations (the local brothel is opposite the supermarket next to the DIY store, a concept that always makes me smile).

Germans however are very concerned about the depiction of violence and have a rating system for games and DVD's and other media based on the American Hays Code known as Freiwillige Selbstkontrolle der Filmwirtschaft or FSK. This rating system is voluntary and self-regulating and was deliberately intended to remove the state from the control of censorship after 1945. Gore fest movies are rated as Keine Jugendfreigabe (not for under 18's)

Violence in games is or was a big issue when some nut job who shot up a school was found to be a Counter Strike fan. and blaming all of this on that keeps things nice and simple.

Don't imagine for a moment that any of this self regulation is regarded as sinister or anti-democratic it isn't, it is thought of as a sensible approach to creating a healthy environment for children.

Some points about the war. Anyone who was 18 at the end of the war would be 80 years old today. Most of the area where I live in Germany lost 75% of the buildings and population so most of the Germans here are new, born after the war and a significant proportion are about as German as me. Here we celebrate the German resistance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_resistance

Finally it is all rather hyped-up to be honest. A survey of my computing students put Counter-Strike near the top of their favourites but not as high as anything with a Ferrari in it. My German copy of Panzer Elite Action Field

UK Censorship Bill

[Garrett Fox]

Right now, the UK is working on a "hatred bill" meant to outlaw certain criticism of religion, largely to protect Muslims. (Because you know, theirs is a religion of love and peace and crowds of them will firebomb you if you deny it.) It looks like the bill has been weakened with inclusion of pro-free-speech amendments, partly because Tony Blair failed to show up for a vote. From researching the bill a bit I see that it's already, or rather, still illegal to denounce the Church of England.