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Vista Followup Already in the Works

Posted by Zonk on from the let-the-corpse-of-xp-cool-first dept.

DesertBlade passed us an InfoWorld article, which has the news that Microsoft is already hard at work on the next version of Windows ... and we may see it as early as 2009. Possibly codenamed Vienna, the next Windows iteration will be coming a brief two and a half years after Vista's launch. This is the same timeframe Microsoft claims it would have utilized for Vista, had they not put Longhorn 'on the back burner' to deal with security issues in XP. Corporate Vice President of Development Ben Fathi is already discussing features for the next OS: "We're going to look at a fundamental piece of enabling technology. Maybe its hypervisors, I don't know what it is ... Maybe it's a new user interface paradigm for consumers. It's too early for me to talk about it ... But over the next few months I think you're going to start hearing more and more."

16 of 482 comments (clear)

  1. Fundamentals. by JonathanR · · Score: 5, Funny

    We're going to look at a fundamental piece of enabling technology
    The power switch?
    1. Re:Fundamentals. by mikeisme77 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      So WinFS is finally being released? That was the one I was referring to that's been in development (and delayed) for years now. I've heard mixed thoughts about whether or not it will be better or worse, but we won't know until it's out...

      The other thing that might be useful (eventually) is a file system designed to optimize the use of flash drives (not really all that useful with 30 GB flash drives costing a few hundred, but this will likely be very useful in about 2-5 years after the prices have dropped considerably/larger capacity flash drives are available).

      --
      Read my blog posts on usability.
    2. Re:Fundamentals. by ocbwilg · · Score: 5, Informative

      The new interface/interaction paradigm might be cool, but that should come out of Microsoft Research so they can do proper user experience testing (and not just test like 13 MS employees like they did with the ribbon (this was mentioned on the Office development blog)... The ribbon looks cool, but I find myself digging around for items that I used to just have a small toolbox pop up for or were just on the main toolbar--plus there doesn't appear to be a way to reorganize the ribbon...)

      It was more than just 13 people at Microsoft. It was based on feedback from a lot of customers as well, not to mention multiple rounds of testing. The philosophy behind it was to make the menus more context sensitive, to reduce the number of clicks necessary to get something done. I've been at some demos where they discussed the number of clicks it takes to complete various tasks in Office 2003 versus Office 2007, and in many cases they've seen a 50-60% reduction in clicks (for example, the number of clicks it takes to insert a picture into a Word document). I agree that the ribbon takes some getting used to, but after using it for a few months I find that it is actually much easier and faster to use than navigating the old menus. The biggest problem is the learning curve for people who were used to the old way of doing things.

      A well-cited example from the usability tests that they did while Office 2007 was in development: The testing team brought in two groups of people, one a group who had little to no MS-Office skills, and the other a group who used Office extensively. They sat them both down in front of PCs with Office 2003 loaded and assigned them a list of tasks to complete within a specified timeframe. Most of the "Office Experts" completed all of the tasks, and none of the "Office Newbies" completed all of the tasks. Then they sat them down in front of PCs with Office 2007 loaded and the same list of tasks. In this case, most of the "experts" completed most of the tasks, though it took them a little longer to do it. But most of the "newbies" also completed most of the tasks as well. This relatively simple test underlines to me just how much of an improvement the ribbon interface is (not to mention my personal experiences with it). If you take the time to use it you will undoubtedly find it faster over time.

      Of course, the kicker to the experiment that MS did was that they offered the participants a free copy of MS Office for doing the test. They could have their choice of a full version of Office 2003, or a beta copy of Office 2007 and a free copy of the gold version when it was released. Most of the "experts" took 2003, while the "newbies" took 2007. Just goes to show you how entrenched some people get.

    3. Re:Fundamentals. by ElephanTS · · Score: 5, Funny

      FFS. How many times has this been said ?

      WinFS is not a filesystem, it's a database.

      What about FFS? Maybe it's the new file system MS are working on?

      --
      spoonerize "magic trackpad"
    4. Re:Fundamentals. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      WinFS is not a filesystem, it's a database.
      Right. It's WinDB that's the new filesystem.
    5. Re:Fundamentals. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Really? You mean that you checked the inventory levels in the computer, and noticed you only sold two copies?

      Actually, I work at a large ISP located in the metropolitain area with subscribers across the country and we keep statistics of what OS people connect with (in our call center as well as various trackers on servers) so we can better support our users and we haven't noticed a significant (i.e. => 1%) portion of Vista installs...

      PC sales for the week of Vista's release are up 173% compared to the week previous, and up 67% versus the same week in 2006.

      Sure, but hardly any of those PCs run Vista. If the point you were trying to make was about Vista selling more, quoting sales of PCs that haven't shipped with Vista is hardly the way to do it...

      A lot of this is because of the massive FUD campaign against Vista that seems to be prevelent in the media....Hasn't anyone noticed that people said the EXACT SAME THINGS about Windows XP? Antivirus and CD burning programs were incompatible. Hardware support was sketchy. Games didn't run as fast. Everyone was going to stick with Windows 98, because it was "good enough".

      Hasn't anyone noticed that MS saied the EXACT SAME THINGS about every other OS they've sold? "It's the most stable," "Easy to migrate to," "Most secure windows evar!" etc? Maybe people are finally starting to exercise caution? Maybe people are starting to think it's "just marketing"? Nah.. can't be.

      There were complaints about how much XP Pro cost ($299/$199 upgrade). Five years later, and the "business" version of Vista is still $299/$199 - effectively, it's actually cheaper than XP professional was at launch.

      Sure, now they have more competition, and realize they actually have to live up to their TCO claims, and even gain consumer goodwill, clean up their image. Even MS have acknowledged this. But wait'll you see how many tie-ins they have to get you to eventually purchase Ultimate if you want to do get a coherent experience, or even make use of otherwise "free" features in other software (since they tie-in to the convenient and already available Ultimate features... how many apps require WMP but actually really need it? Same with IE? Come on, there are more efficient and secure stacks for this...), etc.

      Yes, just like XP Home refuses to upgrade over Windows 2000. This is neither new nor unexpected

      Are you kidding? It's these kinds of artificial limitations that MS are really pissing off their users with.

      At this point, I think you are just making shit up.

      Vista isn't going to change anything.

      Ah, the first thing you've said that I can fully agree with...

  2. Subject by Legion303 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "It's too early for me to talk about it"

    Translation: "We haven't figured out who we're going to rip off yet. Probably Apple."

  3. Alternative names for it? by Funkcikle · · Score: 5, Funny

    I am not too impressed by the name of "Vienna", especially since I happen to like the place.

    I think something along the lines of Windows Hindenburg would be more appropriate. Or does anyone have a better name?

    1. Re:Alternative names for it? by BrokenHalo · · Score: 5, Funny

      It should be changed from "Windows" to "Doors".

      Why not simply "Gates"?

  4. allow me to translate... by timmarhy · · Score: 5, Funny
    "Maybe its hypervisors, I don't know what it is ... Maybe it's a new user interface paradigm for consumers. It's too early for me to talk about it "

    "we got nothing, someone think something up quick so we can steal it."

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  5. Re:Delays because of doing other work by jcr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is no shortage of manpower at Microsoft. There is a severe shortage of vision, and managerial competence.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  6. Manpower doesn't scale by gilesjuk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The more people you put on a project the more managers you require, the more meetings, the more decisions, more designs etc...

    Larger code base means more bugs, more test time, more bug fixing teams etc..

    You can't put twice as many people at a project and expect twice the work to result from it.

  7. Re:Purge time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    Could someone start a petition to purge "enabling" from the english language? Please?


    Disabling enabling? No way.

  8. Of course it's in the works! by phillymjs · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They've probably been fleshing out the feature list for Vista's successor since the first day a developer copy of OS X 10.5 reached the grubby mitts of a Microsoft employee. Don't expect the real work to start until spring, though, when it's released with its 'top secret' features.

    Go ahead and mod me down, bitches, but after this tasty tidbit you know I'm probably right. And they did the same thing to Go Corp, BTW.

    ~Philly

  9. Re:Delays because of doing other work by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "After Windows is finished, the dev team proceeds to work on the next version, while a team called Windows Sustained Engineering takes over the released version."

    And therein lies the problem. There is zero incentive to do it right the first time. After all, once its' out the door, its someone else's problem.

    The people who actually wrote it should be responsible for fixing it - not writing the next-gen fuckup.

  10. Re:Delays because of doing other work by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Interesting

    10 reasons

    1. Don't forget that the vast majority of people working for Microsoft don't code.

    2. Also, that their corporate culture has been known to be sucky for almost 2 decades (hint: nobody likes being shuted at).

    3. And that you can make as much or more money elsewhere (Microsoft stock options are no longer a real incentive)

    4. You can enjoy more autonomy at almost any other company

    5. People want to have a life outside of work (follow-up to #2)

    6. Its more fun being a larger part of a small project than a faceless cog in a large project (follow-up to #4)

    7. A lot of the interesting stuff just isn't being done by Microsoft

    8. Clueless VPs spouting bullshit:

      Corporate Vice President of Development Ben Fathi is already discussing features for the next OS: "We're going to look at a fundamental piece of enabling technology. Maybe its hypervisors, I don't know what it is ... Maybe it's a new user interface paradigm for consumers. It's too early for me to talk about it ... But over the next few months I think you're going to start hearing more and more."

      A perfect example of someone who should be kept locked away from the media until they have something concrete to say.

    9. Windows and Microsoft aren't seen as being cool any more, and haven't been for a decade.

    10. Who wants to be associated with crap products that are responsible for most of the zombies/worms/viruses?

    I mean, really ... Ben Fathi is supposed to be the guy overseeing everything, and he says "I don't know what it is" about what's next, and this is news????

    Ben Fathi serves as corporate vice president of development for the Windows Core Operating System Division (COSD) at Microsoft Corp. He oversees the development of core components of Microsoft Windows, including the kernel, and technologies associated with security, networking, virtualization, setup and deployment.

    Fathi previously served as corporate vice president of the Security Technology Unit (STU), where he was responsible for delivery of all core security technologies, including the authentication, authorization and audit capabilities (AAA) of Microsoft products; Windows Rights Management Services (RMS); BitLocker drive encryption; and anti-virus, anti-spyware and network security protocols. Fathi also managed the Security Engineering and Communications team, the Security Response Center and the Security Outreach team, all of which focus on helping protect customers from online security threats.

    So, he says he doesn't know what the next big thing in Windows is going to be ... here's a suggestion - new graphics and artwork to make it look more like OSX, a new startup sound that cost a billion instead of a few measly million to "enhance the user experience some more", a Duke Nukem Forever interactive screen-saver, and ribbons with dropdowns with flyouts with popups with menus, so that the user has at least 10 different ways to get to any particular option. And not one, not 2, but FOUR new programming languages - D minus (to replace C sharp), DOT NOT (a .net replacement that is ultra secure by refusing to do ANYTHING), J-Script/XML+J-Script/CSS for those who want to continue to build non-standard web sites, as well as Internet Explorer 9 - will only allow you to visit microsoft-signed sites, and a revamped cmd.exe and windows kernel that will only allow access to 640k of ram per process so that no application can ever be a resource hog. This last spec will be known as "Microsoft Dynacode Operating System 1", or MS-DOS 1.0. Plans call for an optional text interface sometime by 2012, and the removal of mouse support by 2015, because they can sell ms keyboards for more than mice.

    Oh, and their engineering slogan will be "Windows ain't done until Wine won't run."