The Future of Harmonix

Wired blog Game|Life has up an interview with Alex Rigopulos, CEO of Harmonix (original creators of the Guitar Hero series). They're finishing up work on Guitar Hero for the 360, and then they're moving on to bigger and better things. Chris Kohler had the chance to speak with Rigopulos about that next step for the company. They touch on topics like downloadable content, the awesomeness of the whammy bar, the end of Harmonix's relationship with the extremely popular music-game series, and why people just can't agree on music. Says Rigopulos: "People's taste in music varies. Massively. And music that you love, I might think is garbage, and vice versa. And it's really hard to assemble a single soundtrack that's going to have really broad appeal... [with Guitar Hero 2] we got from the metal community was that they were totally psyched that we were giving them the real goods. And a lot of other people who were Guitar Hero 1 fans saying, well, there are more songs in Guitar Hero II where I just wanted to turn down the speakers."

Comments

Re:Post below here

[Anonymous Coward]

First stubby post!

Your Guitar Hero, A number 1, King of New York

[Anonymous Coward]

Its one of my fave wastes of time for sure. All that pent up rock star wannabe from your teen, realized each time you pick it up.

Golden.

Different Editions

[AKAImBatman]

A game like Guitar Hero lends itself well to different editions. Rather than releasing a single game with a wide array of music, they should release several titles with a focus on each type of music. The game engine could be the same in each, with only the songs differing. Some examples:

Guitar Hero: Hard Rock
Guitar Hero: 80's Pop
Guitar Hero: Rock of the 60's
Guitar Hero: Spanish Licks
Guitar Hero: Heavy Metal

Since only the song content would differ, it would be less costly for Harmonix/Red Octane to produce the different versions than it is to release an entirely new game. Not only will they open up doors to new customers, but their existing customers will have a chance to purchase new compilations as they get tired of their existing ones. Yet they won't necessarily feel like they're getting gyped as each disc is a full-up game unto itself.

The best part is that six months after release (or around the holiday season, whichever comes first) they can release a special compilation of ALL the discs in one package. (A bit like DVDs of TV Seasons.) They could then charge a pretty penny for the special edition compilation while incurring only minor manufacturing and distribution costs. Or in other words, they'd have a license to print money. ;)

Re:Different Editions

[gEvil (beta)]

Since only the song content would differ, it would be less costly for Harmonix/Red Octane to produce the different versions than it is to release an entirely new game.

If I'm not mistaken, a lot of the cost in producing a game like Guitar Hero is in licensing the tracks themselves. While it would be nice for there to be a ton of different versions of the game with different song packs, it would most likely end up costing Harmonix/whoever a whole ton of money to do it. The approach they're taking at the moment seems to make the most sense moneywise.

Re:Different Editions

[AKAImBatman]

If I'm not mistaken, a lot of the cost in producing a game like Guitar Hero is in licensing the tracks themselves.

There are a few different pricing structures, but usually you're talking about royalties. Royalties suck because you pay something for every copy you sell. On the other hand, royalties rock because you only pay for the copies you sell. In this case, they'd only need to pay royalties for the version that contains the song. It would make accounting a bit more difficult, but it's perfectly doable. That's why having different versions can work, despite all the licensing issues.

Re:Different Editions

[gEvil (beta)]

While royalties can be big, they are generally offset by the costs the developer/publisher recoups in selling the game (higher sales = higher royalties to pay out). The bigger initial cost, though, is the straight licensing fee to use/republish the track. Again, however, as you mention, this is all dependent on the terms of each contract.

Re:Different Editions

[Anonymous Coward]

Guitar Hero: Spanish Licks I'd sure like to lick some Spanish pussy.

Re:Different Editions

[OK PC]

Indeed, much like Singstar is done in Europe: http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_/026-14116 97-5245268?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=S ingstar&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go

Re:Different Editions

[UbuntuDupe]

Oh yeah, it would definitely be doable to divvy up royalties at that price point so we can incentivize more eyeballs to part with their paycheck and sock away some serious bucks to buy the next version.

See? I can be hip, too.

Re:Different Editions

[AKAImBatman]

See? I can be hip, too.

Too bad no one was trying to be hip. :-/

Unless it's hip to be a square? :-P

Re:Different Editions

[SuiteSisterMary]

Isn't this what they're planning on doing with the Xbox360 version, offering song packs via Live?

Re:Different Editions

[trdrstv]

Too bad no one was trying to be hip. :-/

Unless it's hip to be a square? :-P

It is, but only if you're Huey Lewis.

Re:Different Editions

[AKAImBatman]

More or less, but I don't think it will make them as much money. Online content doesn't has as much intrinsic value to players as a physical, shrink-wrapped, boxed frisbee. As a result, they're going to get a lot less money for the downloads than they would for the physical packages. There will also be fewer options for expensive bundles open to them.

I'll grant you that downloads remove the marketing & distribution overhead, as well as the retail markup, but it won't change the royalty situation any. So in my highly untrained professional opinion, they'd do better in retail than they will on the 360 Live! service.

Re:Different Editions

[eison]

Did you just skip the first half of the article, where he was talking about the difficulties and cost of retail distribution and shelf space and physical boxes?

Re:Different Editions

[AKAImBatman]

No, I just mostly rolled my eyes at it. Difficult or not, they've done it before and can do it again. When your entire business is riding on how much money you make off of sales, the "difficulty" of retail is tantamount to nonsense. You only eliminate that channel if you can make more money through a different channel. Being that these will be addon song packs to an existing game, I don't see that happening. They'd make a lot more money by selling the same game 10 times over.

Besides, they're going to have to get the Guitar Hero/Controller combo out there somehow. It's not like you can just download a controller over the Internet. (At least, not yet anyway.)

Re:Different Editions

[PhoenixOne]

"Rather than releasing a single game with a wide array of music, they should release several titles with a focus on each type of music. The game engine could be the same in each, with only the songs differing."

Which I'm guessing is why Harmonix sold Guitar Hero to Neversoft. Harmonix likes doing the cutting-edge stuff. They could spend the rest of their life making "Guitar Hero: X-Edition" and never create something new.

Neversoft, on the other hand, likes to remake the same thing over-and-over again. They do a good job of it. Tony Hawk 20 will probably still be fun to play (as will "Guitar Hero 7: Polka Power").

Re:Different Editions

[UbuntuDupe]

Actually, you were trying to be hip. "Doable"? Come on.

Re:Different Editions

[AKAImBatman]

Never assign to malice what can be explained by incompetence. In this case, I've been spending way too much time around the corporate types. :-/

Really, I'm honestly not trying to sound cool or "hip". I was trying to communicate my honest opinion. It was not my intention to have it sound like a marketing brochure. Then again, I'm apparently your "enemy", so I doubt you'll believe me anyway.

Re:Different Editions

[UbuntuDupe]

You actually were a friend until you gave a condescending reply to my question about why people always say "price point" when, in every actual use I've seen of it, "price" would convey the exact same information. ("Nintendo chose a good price for the Wii" = "Nintendo chose a good price point for the Wii") You gave a lecture about what a "price point" is in economic theory, which completely missed the point. Looks like your corporatespeak problem is more far-reaching.

Re:Different Editions

[AKAImBatman]

Looks like your corporatespeak problem is more far-reaching.

Sounds like you take things too personally. I remember that conversation, and as it so happens, I was not trying to be "condescending". You asked an open ended question, so I gave a best attempt at an informative, open-ended answer. I'm truly sorry if you were offended, but I can't control if read something into text that isn't there.

The scary thing is that this phenomenon is well documented, yet it continues to pose a problem. :-(

Anyway, I'm sorry for any offense; whether it be real or perceived.

Re:Different Editions

[UbuntuDupe]

I'm truly sorry if you were offended, but I can't control if read something into text that isn't there.

True -- but you can control your knee-jerk instinct to show off your knowledge, based on the assumption the person who asked the question is an idiot.

I might have forgiven your first response, but as I recall, you replied AGAIN to repeat the same information, AFTER I reclarified my already-clear question. (Part of why I had to add my current sig.) It never occurred to you there might have been something you were missing?

Re:Different Editions

[AKAImBatman]

as I recall, you replied AGAIN to repeat the same information, AFTER I reclarified my already-clear question.

You remember incorrectly. I did not respond to you once you clarified what you meant. I only responded in the first place because I thought I was being helpful. The mods, however, were extremely harsh with your posts. Perhaps unjustifiably so.

You need to understand. You said nothing more than "Why do people say "price point" instead of "price"? Just to sound smart? In virtually every context, it's completely unnecessary." This suggested to everyone that you did not understand the difference between a 'price' and a 'price point'. If you go back and read the replies, you may notice that several other folks responded in a similar manner. In short, no one understood your original point due to a lack of information. When you expressed that you were upset that no one understood you, the mods retaliated. (Probably because they hadn't understood you, either.)

You shouldn't worry about it so much. It happens to us all. I'm constantly bitten by information I forget to include in a post before hitting the submit button. It simply one of the perils in using a time-sensitive bulletin board like Slashdot.

Re:Different Editions

[UbuntuDupe]

"Why do people say "price point" instead of "price"? Just to sound smart? In virtually every context, it's completely unnecessary." This suggested to everyone that you did not understand the difference between a 'price' and a 'price point'.

How? I said, "In virtually every context, it's completely unnecessary." That means I had in mind contexts where it was necessary, and thus understood its meaning! That means you don't need to explain that use to me. How hard is that to understand?

Now, if you go back and read the replies, you'll see that some people did understand me: [1], [2].

At least you corrected yourself after I explained the error, since you realized what a jerk that made you look like. Well, actually, you didn't, but I'm sure you thought about doing it.

You shouldn't worry about it so much. It happens to us all. I'm constantly bitten by information I forget to include in a post before hitting the submit button.

True ... but you hit two submit buttons. And you didn't forget to include information ... you forgot to check if your information was relevant.

If you're really interested in helping increase the signal to noise ration, I recommend not replying to my posts in future stories.

Re:Different Editions

[AKAImBatman]

How? I said, "In virtually every context, it's completely unnecessary." That means I had in mind contexts where it was necessary, and thus understood its meaning! That means you don't need to explain that use to me. How hard is that to understand?

If you don't see how that can be misunderstood, then I can't help you.

Now, if you go back and read the replies, you'll see that some people did understand me: [1], [2].

Two replies. Both of which may or may not have understood you correctly. Nevermind all the other responses which continued on the idea that you didn't understand the difference. Nevermind that I was polite to you. Nevermind that I just apologized for any perceived transgressions. Never mind any of that. I was obviously a complete and total jerk to you. And I obviously deserve your disdain, because I have been rude to you this entire thread!

If you're really interested in helping increase the signal to noise ration, I recommend not replying to my posts in future stories.

And let's not forget that this thread was started by replying to your post. Oh wait. *snaps fingers* That's right! I didn't. You replied to me. With your seven month old pent up anger over a complete non-issue.

True ... but you hit two submit buttons. And you didn't forget to include information ... you forgot to check if your information was relevant.

I didn't forget anything. You forgot to explain what your problem was.

At least you corrected yourself after I explained the error, since you realized what a jerk that made you look like.

To be perfectly honest, I didn't understand what your problem was then. I wasn't going to respond when I didn't understand what you were getting at. But now that I know, I think I agree with the AC who responded to you.

The problem isn't that we don't get it, it's that you don't get it. Precision is a very important part of any serious conversation. So the term "price point" was used to be precise. For those of us who are used to being picked apart when we're imprecise, precision is a necessary (Nay! CRITICAL!) evil. That's something you appear to miss in your conquest to rage against the man.

But hey, be angry at me. I'm obviously "the man" to be raged against. I was such a jerk, I deserved the down-mod I got for it.

[...]

Wait. I wasn't the one downmodded, now was I?

"You hypocrite! First take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." --Matthew 7:5

Frets on Fire

[moonbender]

Let me be the first (maybe) to post a link to Frets on Fire, the PC clone of Guitar Hero. It's open source, works on Windows, Linux and Intel OS X, three songs come with it, it imports the GH songs from CD and it's a lot of fun. Also nice when you have a couple of friends over - everybody can keep talking while a few "heros" take care of the music. ;)

Worth downloading alone for the ingenious way they make you hold the keyboard as a makeshift Guitar Hero controller.

Re:Frets on Fire

[I Like Pudding]

Worth downloading alone for the ingenious way they make you hold the keyboard as a makeshift Guitar Hero controller.

You do realize the reason Guitar Hero is fun is because of the guitar controller, right?

Re:Frets on Fire

[Anonymous Coward]

Two Things:
Firstly, if you have an adapter you can use the original Guitar Hero controler.
Secondly, holding your keyboard upside down is also a fun controller, and has the advantage of coming free with your PC.

Re:Frets on Fire

[poot_rootbeer]

Worth downloading alone for the ingenious way they make you hold the keyboard as a makeshift Guitar Hero controller.

I'm looking down at my own keyboard right now, and HP has taken it upon themselves to add a tall row of "multimedia" keys above the Function keys. Attempting to play Frets of Fire on this thing would give me carpal tunnel.

I guess one could buy a $20 no-frills keyboard to use as a dedicated FoF controller, maybe even paint the keycaps the appropriate colors. But once you've gone that far, why not just spring for an authentic Red Octane controller and a PS2-USB adapter?

Re:Frets on Fire

[HTH NE1]

it imports the GH songs from CD

So the songs are by the artist rather than "made famous by" as GH labels them? Or you do mean from the game CD? Because otherwise, how does it lift out the guitar track so that you can't hear it right if you don't play it right?

Re:Frets on Fire

[Mex]

"Worth downloading alone for the ingenious way they make you hold the keyboard as a makeshift Guitar Hero controller."

Ah... Not really. I'm a geek, but even that is too geeky for me :(

I've seen the game on youtube, and besides the ugly graphics, it seems to work all right, but perhaps it should be renamed "Keytar Hero".

Re:Frets on Fire

[trdrstv]

But once you've gone that far, why not just spring for an authentic Red Octane controller and a PS2-USB adapter?

Or just buy the official 360 USB version when it comes out. I'm sure FoF will be quick to add support for it...

Re:Frets on Fire

[Andre_PC]

He means the game cd. Although you can import your own songs too.
Personally, the lack of whammy support turns me off. Too bad the "Guitar Zero" (a clone of Guitar Hero) was dumped...

Re:Frets on Fire

[UbuntuDupe]

Actually, Guitar Hero is fun because it's the best cover story for playing DDR without a dance pad.

GH = DDR with the controller in your hands

Re:Frets on Fire

[Robert1]

Yeah, that's exactly why it's fun because it's a great cover story. "This game rules, it makes such an amazing cover story!"

What a completely inane comment, why even bother to post this shit?

Re:Frets on Fire

[UbuntuDupe]

Sorry, that was my first reaction when I tried out GH at a store. Someone showed me how to play, and I was like, "WTF? This is just DDR played on a hand-held controller!" I didn't get what was so "rad" about it. I still don't. Yeah, it might be fun if you don't already think playing DDR with a hand-held controller is lame ...

Re:Frets on Fire

[Rockenreno]

Sounds like you just don't like rhythm games. Guitar Hero is a rhythm game like DDR or Taiko Drum Master or Amplitude or a handful of other games. It's not simply playing DDR with a handheld controller. There is a rather large difference between working your fingers though chords and runs on a (fake) guitar and dancing around like a lunatic on a dance pad. If you can't see the difference then perhaps you need to get outside your box and look again. Same genre != same game.

Re:Frets on Fire

[I Like Pudding]

Yeah, it might be fun if you don't already think playing DDR with a hand-held controller is lame ...

Play on expert. I think the DDR equiv would be playing on two pads simultaneously while somebody unloads a machine gun at your feet, which just so happens to be the only thing I can think of that would make DDR interesting.

Re:Frets on Fire

[UbuntuDupe]

I "just don't like rhythm games"? Are you retarded? I average about an hour on DDR (with the pad) every day. Sorry, you're just gonna have to go with another theory there.

It's not simply playing DDR with a handheld controller. There is a rather large difference between working your fingers though chords and runs on a (fake) guitar and dancing around like a lunatic on a dance pad. If you can't see the difference then perhaps you need to get outside your box and look again.

Except that if you can recall the previous sentence you wrote at any given moment, you'd see I was comparing GH to [DDR with a handheld controller], not GH to [DDR with a dance pad]. The only difference *in gameplay* there is a) the grip, and b) the fact that you have to activate the notes with a strumming hand. Flame me all you want, but GH = cheater's DDR.

Re:Frets on Fire

[UbuntuDupe]

What? What exactly is supposed to be the GH analog of having a machine gun fired at my feet? What is that supposed to mean?

So you say there are difficult modes in GH. I agree. There are also difficulty settings in DDR sufficient to make it "interesting". And there already is a mode where you play two pads simultaneously -- it's called "double" mode, which I play regularly. Go try The Legend of Max on heavy in doubles mode and tell me which is easier. I just hope your heart is up for it.

Re:Frets on Fire

[davebo357]

Well I love both GH and DDR, but one major difference I'd say is GH has fairly decent covers of a lot of good songs, whereas DDR is largely filled with instrumental techno junk and j-pop. So I guess it's more of a matter of what type of music you like. You also compare GH to a hand-based DDR, then call GH the cheater's DDR, so I assume you're saying it's for people too lazy to use the foot controller, not a hand one. While I fully admit that I sweat a lot more playing DDR above level 7 than I do playing GH on hard, you have to respect that there's a lot of people out there with a lot more dexterity in their fingers due to typing a lot than there are people with enough stamina or coordination in their legs to find an hour of DDR enjoyable. What I really like is Stepmania, which you can play really difficult levels on a keyboard or hook up your dance pad, and you just download whatever type of music you like. Variety is nice, because after a day of snowboarding or a class of Tae Kwon Do, I'd rather grab that toy guitar than strain my knees playing DDR, sorry if that makes me a "cheater."

Re:Frets on Fire

[I Like Pudding]

What? What exactly is supposed to be the GH analog of having a machine gun fired at my feet?

Misirlou

Jordan is like having a bazooka fired at your head.

Re:Frets on Fire

[UbuntuDupe]

Okay ...

I still don't see what great point you're trying to make that you can't put into a clear, coherent, complete sentence that wasn't already answered in my previous post...

Re:Frets on Fire

[twistedsymphony]

DDR was created by the Japanese... they like their extra ridiculously difficult/impossible modes. The hardest settings/songs on DDR are far and wide more difficult then the hardest settings/songs on GH (I've played them all).

Not to mention as long as you've got some good rhythm, dexterity and time to practice you can perfect most GH tracks on the hardest setting. DDR has far more strenuous physical requirements on top of that, not to mention the precision needs to come from your legs and feet, which are far more difficult to make precise movements with then your fingers, particularly when you're exhausted from essentially running in place.

On another note I think you've helped identify why GH is so much more popular then DDR. It has nothing to do with the genre or the fact that you play with your hands instead of your feet, and everything to do with the stigma that dancing is lame but playing the guitar is cool. Same can be said for JPop/Techno vs Rock/Metal respectivly.

Re:Frets on Fire

[I Like Pudding]

Ok, point conceded. The dexterity requirements for GH don't really approach that of a real guitar, my DDR knowledge is minimal, and I can see where flailing your body around like a spaz would be difficult than flailing your hand around like a spaz. And, yes, the guitar is about 600 times cooler. I don't think it's so much a stigma of dancing being lame, it's more that when *I* dance *I'm* lame. That, and I find the DDR music repulsive.

Re:Frets on Fire

[moonbender]

Not sure what makes Frets on Fire particularly geeky in your mind. I've seen some fairly non-geeky people play it. But it's not like I'm trying to convince anybody of anything...

Re:Frets on Fire

[Zaplocked]

Are you just being difficult, or are you really that ignorant of the concept of an analogy? Either way, elitism involving Rythymn Games is about the dumbest thing I've heard today. Goddamn you are an annoying fuck.

Re:Post below here

[Goaway]

Actually, people post in the first post because the Slashdot comment system is so horribly broken that only the first handful of comments ever get read. If you're not out there commenting in the first minutes, nobody's going to read what you say.

1 Master edition, and customizeable track list...

[trdrstv]

Since only the song content would differ, it would be less costly for Harmonix/Red Octane to produce the different versions than it is to release an entirely new game.

Exactly. Why not a $20 version with the main game engine, and maybe 12 songs then you can buy the bolt on packs online? Or maybe a full $50 for a version with 40 songs (to be unlocked Via online) that are your pick? Put say 100+ tunes online that work, and each retail copy gets to unlock 40 off the bat. If you want more, just buy more...

Other Harmonix Games

[killjoy966]

Did any else play the other games by Harmonix (FreQuency or Amplitude)? As much as I love Guitar Hero, I still play these two religiously.

Downloading is a perfect fit

[cxreg]

Downloadable content is exactly how you can fix the people-have-varying-taste problem. Supply a fairly neutral set of content on the main disc, then sell add-on packs of songs for $5 as downloads. They can continue supplying them almost indefinitely for minimal cost, and people will eat it up. Sounds pretty win-win to me.

You know why there are almost no good OSS games?

[patio11]

Because someone decided that the key way to improve on Guitar Hero was to slash the price, which neither introduces nor fixes any problems, and then eliminate the guitar, which introduces ONE REALLY BIG PROBLEM. People do not fantasize about getting up in front of a roaring crowd and whipping out their Dell keyboard. Guitar Hero sells fantasy first, music second, and software a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery distant third.

If you're going to slavishly imitate at least copy the fun parts correctly!