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RIAA Admits ISPs Have Misidentified "John Does"
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "The RIAA has sent out a letter to the ISPs telling them to stop making mistakes in identifying subscribers, and offering a 'Pre-Doe settlement option' — with a discount of '$1000 or more' — to their subscribers, if and only if the ISP agrees to preserve its logs for 180 days. Other interesting points in the letter (PDF): the RIAA will be launching a web site for 'early settlements,' www.p2plawsuits.com; the letter asks the ISPs to notify the RIAA if they have previously 'misidentified a subscriber account in response to a subpoena' or become aware of 'technical information... that causes you to question the information that you provided in response to our clients' subpoena'; it notes that ISPs have identified 'John Does' who were not even subscribers of the ISP at the time of the infringement; and it requests that ISPs furnish their underlying log files, not just names and addresses, when responding to RIAA subpoenas."
So the RIAA argument of "well, your ISP says you downloaded 100 movies, we don't care if you don't have access to or own a computer, or perhaps even died a few years ago, you did it and our records are infallible" maybe won't fly anymore?
If you agree that the RIAA is correct in its lawsuits (which is an if on the order of magnitude If you believe the earth is flat), then this makes sense. I think we can all assume that the RIAA believes that it is correct in its lawsuits, which means it should persue means to make the law suits more effective. This is just a another means to do so. Really, it helps consumers in that the RIAA is less likely to sue innocent people, and only sue those people who are actually violating the law. I don't condone the activities of the RIAA, nor it methods in general for reaching its goals, but at least this one is based on making its lawsuits more accurate, and its willing to pay to do so, rather than just going back to courts and attempting to get contempt charges against the ISPs, which it may be able to do. That said, there will be fewer instances of the RIAA suing grandmothers for filesharing that people can use to illustrate the futility of the overall RIAA campaign.
http://bgcommonsense.blogspot.com
Because we are not only incredibly lazy but we corner the market on apathy.
It is a complete truth that the typical American is too lazy to fight for their rights let alone change their buying habits when a company acts badly.
Yes I AM an American.
Sue customers
Blame ISP's for suing wrong customer and try to make them do your job
?????
PROFIT!!!!
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
So when do these start?
Geesh..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Funny thing about modern civilization, we have traded dueling at dawn and other acts of violence over squabbles with lawyers and the court system. In most cases this is good. But there are times when violence is necessary, and Americans have not only forgotten this but view anyone who disagrees as barbaric.
Even if, in other circumstances, holding a subset of a file would not be a crime. Or even recognizable as a song file.
Footnote: I am not a fan of the RIAA, their tactics, or their lawsuits. Engaging in illegal activity, however, is not a good way to express dissent. And if someone believes that file sharing is some form of social protest, be prepared to face the consequences (ie fines or jail) for that protest.
Networks, as we know, are designed to work around the problems. New technologies and equipment will very soon make it possible to establish citywide dark mesh networks such that your packets of a torrent will be shared among hundreds or thousands of IP addresses across multiple ISP's. Now run those packets through an anonymizer like Tor and things get more difficult for the *AA by orders of magnitude.
Even if the ISPs were required to keep logs, the logs will show nothing. This is the exact opposite of what the *AA and governments actually want. It is possible to make it incredibly difficult for them to track who does what. The FBI will find it even more difficult to find purveyors of child pornography. Don't think that I support child pornographers, but I certainly won't sacrifice my rights to privacy in order to catch them, or rather make catching them possibly easier for the police.
With all the post 9/11 rhetoric, I'm certain that any would be terrorists are already encrypting their communications. Its really not difficult to do. There are tons of ways currently to hide or encrypt data communications that make it impossible for the FBI/governments to efficiently make sense of it. That means that the ONLY reason for tracking and logging is to control honest citizenry. George, you were right.
The *AA can log all they want to, and try to sue anyone they want. In the same fashion that DRM is worked around, darknets will appear and ruin all the lawyer's fun. They are fighting a losing battle on all fronts. Eventually they will either capitulate and sell it cheaper and without DRM, or they will go out of business because more artists start selling their art without using the *AA.
What we have to ask ourselves is WHY do we continue to elect politicians that support this type of active spying on the citizenry?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Because if they had wished to challenge the evidence, they would have had to take the case to court. Instead they came to a mutually agreed upon settlement. Once you settle, you agree to the terms. Period. A criminal who confesses to a crime, doesn't get to go back to court 6 months later and say "well, I was under a lot of stress, the evidence against me at the time looked good, but now I don't think it's as solid, can I please have a second chance? Pretty please?"
If the accused had doubt in the evidence, trial is where you attack it in our judicial system.
-dave
/., where "Apple and Google provide Iran with nukes" will be refuted with "But Microsoft is a convicted monopolist"
IANAL, but if an ISP "cooperates" with the RIAA as they suggest, doesn't the ISP become an agent of the RIAA? As an agent, wouldn't the ISP be liable in any lawsuits initiated by the defendant. It's one thing for the ISP to answer a subpoena or supply the RIAA with information that the courts have ruled they legally can request. It's another thing to help the RIAA with enforcement.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Now let's look at it another way, and say I'm in a related business. Let's make me a writer, musician, or other professional independent artist, self-publishing my own work out of my basement for burger money. I'm slightly suspicious that all of you people are illegally trading my copyrighted work, and depriving me of my burgers. I want to investigate this. Can I have the underlying logs from all of your ISPs as well, or is the shitload of money a requirement?
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
George W. Bush: "Yes, I'm sure, there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq! I swear!"
:-/
The RIAA: "Yes, we're sure, these are the people stealing our intellectual property!"
(time passes...)
George W. Bush: "Oops, sorry. It wasn't my fault! I didn't know the reports were wrong!"
The RIAA: "Oops, sorry. It wasn't our fault! The ISPs were wrong in identifying people!"
In inverse order from your post.
I can't wait for the day when the RIAA goes back to what they started doing
You will be waiting forever then.
When will artists start
1. Is a starving artist is going to bite pretty much the only hand that has the potential (note phrase carefully) of feeding them? The economics of being an independent artist are depressing.
2. There are bands doing this. I have a feeling you want the music to show up at Walmart/Worst Buy. RIAA members control retail outside of a handful of indie stores. No, they won't tollerate someone cutting into their business.
This form of cartelization can't last forever
Yes, it has and it does. Music distribution is simply one of many cartels who have been prosecuted many times over in the U.S. to no effect.
Are these "early settlements" financially profitable for the RIAA?
Yes. They've got a fleet of full-time lawyers who have probably turned this into a cookie-cutter operation with low paid admins doing most of the work. Strike fear into the consumer's heart and demand the highest price possible for their goods. Sounds like standard operating procedure for any business to me.
This issue's been around for years now and there's no coordinated political reply to any of it. No call to action, just moral outrage. I hope you feel better because it's only going to get worse unless _you_ do something about it.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
So Rosa Parks should have stayed in the back of the bus? Some guys dressed up as "Indians" shouldn't have thrown a bunch of tea into Boston harbour?
Civil disobedience has been a core technique in the expression of political dissent for as long as there have been laws and politics. Yes - it's a calculated risk to violate the law to make a political statement, but it's also one of the few ways to be heard at all.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
If she had somehow hidden her act (which was impossible of course), then her act would have had little impact. Civil disobedience does not mean breaking the law without being caught. It entails breaking the law to bring about change. "Pirating" music is about breaking the law in order to save yourself some change. Two very different things. Please, don't demean Rosa Parks by the comparison.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
ISPs should remain neutral and not identify anyone to private parties or organizations demanding information without a valid court order. After all, YOU PAY the ISP for an account - the least they can do is avoid double dipping, especially with those vultures from RIAA.
What you suggest is both unreasonable and illegal. They may act like assholes, but there's absolutely no reason to stoop to that level and become an asshole yourself. If you really want to voice your displeasure, why not talk things out with them and explain why you disagree with them and what they're doing? It's not like it's impossible to contact them, I mean, if you read the letter:
National Coordinating Counsel for the Litigation
Ms. Katheryn Coggon
Holme Roberts & Owen LLP
katheryn.coggon@hro.com
Phone: (303) 866-0408
Note: The letter was from Steve Marks, also with this law firm. These are the people the ISPs are being instructed to deal with.
Record Company Representative
info@SettlementInformationLine.com
http://www.p2plawsuits.com/
Phone: (913) 234-8181
Fax: (913) 234-8182
Note: The website is a GoDaddy parked domain without any content just yet. These are the people the folks getting sued are supposed to contact.
Just remember to be civil; it's not like you'll convince someone they're wrong by acting like an asshole, and you'd probably get in well-deserved trouble. However, if you politely make it clear to them just how many people think what they're doing is wrong, they just might reconsider their actions.
If the RIAA is pushing forward with criminal cases, shouldn't they be brought forward by the local district attorneys?
If the RIAA is pushing forward with civil suits, what gives them the legal right to subpoena information from other entities?
There's already been cases that have thrown out ISP responsibility for copyright infringement cases, so they don't have that *handle* to hold onto with ISPs anymore.
I'd say, make the RIAA file charges with a REAL law enforcement agency and wait for trial.
If they choose to make civil cases, make them come up with the identities on their own - they should not have the right to force ISPs to hand over any information whatsoever.
Why do they think they have a right in (and seem to have gotten away with) asking for this information so far?
Who is general failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
Too bad most of us only have two options when it comes to high speed internet access: the phone company and the cable company.
I don't see a way out of this.
Start your own business?
Also,if the RIAA wants ISPs to retain log files, they should have to PAY for the disk and tape storage to cover this retention. Depending on the size of the ISP, this could be terabytes of data to keep.
Who is general failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
They're already unveiling a website? It seems as if to the RIAA, these lawsuits are becoming not just a tool to scare their clients into submission, but rather a business model in and of itself. A "$1000 discount?" being offered to clients of certain ISPs?! What's next, 2-for-1 specials? How long are we going to sit quietly, while the RIAA unrolls a new wave of ecommerce - information superhighway robbery...
The hallmark of civil disobedience is willingness to accept the consequences of breaking the law as part of making your point. After all, if you escape punishment at any level then there is no need to change the law. The Boston Tea Party was not civil disobedience - it was outright protest. There's a difference, and one way to look at it is this: the Boston Tea Party injured the government's revenues to tell the government that the taxes were unjust. Rosa Parks did not injure anyone's interests but her own.
Theres enough dissent about that to support both your counter argument and the GP's. Not a good example.
tm
Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
But she did it to make a big point. Not b/c her feet were tired. And the Tea Party was the same reasoning - a bit of public theatre to draw attention to the issue and cause. Which is part of what makes this country great. If the P2P pirates went on a hunger strike or something on the front steps of the Mafiaa, then they would be making a similar statement. If I run IRC in the background and enjoy the smooth hits of the 80's in my house, then that is not quite the same distinction.
The last concert I went to I saw Thursday...After the show the lead singer -encouraged- fans to download their music. Why? The question is...are you going to spend $12-20 on CD that you may or may not like? I know I'm not...If I download the music and hear them and like their music I will buy their merchandise (shirts) or see them in concert when I have time (which gives them more of a profit anyway).
When will the music industry realize this is beyond me. For now I will still pirate my music...
Bite my shiny metal ass.
Look at how much trouble a loosely-organized rag-tag group of people willing to die for their agenda can cause an organized military machine orders of magnitudes more powerful than them.
If the laws of the universe were such that they could have had infinite free copies of the tea, you can be damn sure they would have. In fact, if it were possible to make an unlimited amount of tea for free, anyone who was denied tea on the basis that they hadn't paid would be really pissed off.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
Try asking the IRS what the salaries (plus benefits) of the executives and directors are. Everyone gets all caught up in corporate profit margins and stock prices. Those aren't the numbers that the RIAA is interested in. The RIAA/MPAA are interested in the numbers which land in the executives pockets, the numbers which pay the greens' fees for the executive board members, the numbers which allow the attorneys to purchase newer Bentleys.
The RIAA/MPAA does not give a good gosh darn golly gee what the price of a CD is. It does not matter to them how much it costs a local band for studio time. Those numbers are convenient for PR releases and nothing more.
the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
- What did Rosa Parks gain for refusing to move? Personally, just a lot of trouble.
- What did the people at the Boston Tea Party gain? Nothing, they threw the tea overboard. If they'd stolen it they'd be nothing but petty thieves.
- What did the people of the Underground Railroad gain? Escaped slaves had nothing, more often than not they needed more help. What's the difference between them and modern day people smugglers? Money, money, money...
- What do Greenpeace and the like get out of distruption various activities they see as hostile to the environment? Mostly getting arrested and such.
- What do people get out of smoking pot in a protest march? Wow, you get to stand around in a crowd.
What do you get out of being a pirate? Plenty music, movies, tv series, games, applications and such for free. Even if you're doing the right thing, it's as if you stole the tea at the Boston Tea Party. The message is lost because you're lining your own pockets at the same time, and greed is a much simpler explaination than idealism, Occam's razor and all.Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings