Apple May Be Re-Entering the Sub-Notebook Market

An anonymous reader writes "AppleInsider is reporting that Apple has plans to reenter the sub-notebook market this year. The project, the article states, should be unveiled around the time of WWDC (summer). Drawing parallels to the legendary PowerBook 2400, the sub-notebook will offer some of the best elements of old and new. With a small footprint, light weight, and manageable screen it will fill a niche not currently occupied by any Apple hardware. At the same time, it will offer some new technologies that the current crop of computers do not: 'The new MacBook model is expected to introduce some features not yet available with Apple's existing notebook offerings, such as onboard NAND flash. Plans reportedly call for the notebook to be the first of the company's MacBook offerings to utilize the solid-state memory in order to improve power efficiency and facilitate near instantaneous boot times. This feature, however, had not been frozen upon last check.' Apple hopes this micro-notebook will capture interest both here in the states and in Japan, where the appeal of small consumer electronics may offset the current weak computer market."

Comments

Mac Tablets

[man_ls]

I'd be sold at nearly any price if they'd just include tablet functionality.

I'm not terribly fond of Windows (most of my apps would run under Wine or Parallels, the only Win-Only suite I really use is OneNote) but if there were a Mac replacement, I'd probably buy.

They're quick, pretty computers with easy software that doesn't get in the way.

An ultraportable tablet running an OS that stays out of my way is like a dream...its too bad that Apple is so shy of making a tablet.

Re:Mac Tablets

[great throwdini]

I'd be sold at nearly any price if they'd just include tablet functionality.

It's not ultraportable, but this should meet the "for nearly any price" requirement: Axiotron ModBook.

Re:Mac Tablets

[WillAdams]

While I'm sorely tempted by the ModBook, it lacks the niceties and synergies afforded by the nice suite of peripherals available for my Fujitsu Stylistic --- in particular being able to drop my pen slate into a docking station on my desktop and instantly being connected to full-sized keyboard and mouse, Wacom graphics tablet, 17" display, network, printer and CD-ROM drive is something I'm not wild about giving up.

Apple's ``Best of Both Worlds'' (codename for the initial PowerBook Duo and docking station, ``Bob-W'') is something I'd like to see them re-visit.

William

Re:Mac Tablets

[great throwdini]

It lacks the niceties and synergies afforded by the nice suite of peripherals available for my Fujitsu Stylistic [...] being able to drop my pen slate into a docking station on my desktop and instantly being connected to full-sized keyboard and mouse, Wacom graphics tablet, 17" display, network, printer and CD-ROM drive is something I'm not wild about giving up.

Not that I'm in the market for the ModBook myself, but it does come with a SuperDrive (your last point) and BlueTooth/AirPort should solve issues with keyboard/mouse, network, and printing (why tether to a docking station for such?) ... that leaves the tablet (which it somewhat already is) and the external display, two peripherals that can still be connected to the ModBook, no?

I don't see the ModBook missing out on any of the above.

Cool

[soft_guy]

I'm a Mac user and I really like my MacBook Pro, but I also like really small subnotebooks. So, I'd love to see a super miniature version of the MacBook. It would be bitchin. I keep looking at a friend's Sony subnotebook and saying that it must be nice to have such a small book and I wish it could run MacOS X.

Re:Cool

[EtherAlchemist]

With a sub version of the MBP, you'd at least burn a smaller protion of your lap ;)

Re:Cool

[Buran]

Just yesterday I wrote up a proposal for the University to purchase. MacBook Pro, glossy screen, 2.33G Core 2 Duo, blahblah. (I work in a lab that processes lots of graphics. Intel integrated graphics are not acceptable for us).

I asked for the 200GB 4200 rpm hard drive instead of the smaller 5400 rpm choices. I'd like to be able to enjoy longer battery life, and while I expect the machine to run City of Heroes (via Boot Camp) most of the time I can't foresee 4200rpm causing any problems for me. Any slowness coming from the drive will be more than offset by the increased speed of Photoshop -- the app I do 90% of my work in.

It's really all about what the different priorities are for different users.

Let it be a Newton replacement as well....

[WillAdams]

I'd really like to see Apple do something interesting and compelling in the pen slate computer form-factor --- at the very least they should add a digitizer to the screen and make it a convertable (having the screen fold over the keyboard while still being visible --- something better than a ThinkPad 360PE or Vadem Clio &c.).

It's silly that InkWell (nee Rosetta, the print recognizer from Newton OS 2.0) is bundled w/ every copy of Mac OS X, yet is only enabled when one plugs in a graphics tablet (and only fully usable if one shells out for a Wacom Cintiq).

William

Re:Let it be a Newton replacement as well....

[pilgrim23]

Rosetta! Rosetta! Rosetta! Hey thats me!

If you have a Apple and a pad; try writing "Rosetta!" three times. It was a Newton Easter Egg and from what I have heard migrated into OS X from its smaller cousin.

I'd be interested if...

[Hawthorne01]

... it included something like the iPhone interface and/or Inkwell and was a convertible.

Sub-notebook keyboards are a little cramped for me. Yes, I know Bluetooth keyboard blahblahblah (I'm using one with my Powerbook as I type this), but you can't carry that on the road.

Re:I'd be interested if...

[swid27]

I take it you haven't heard about the two-finger right click functionality

Re:I'd be interested if...

[metlin]

Like I said, it feels unnatural to me and every other notebook out there has another button on the trackpad for right-click.

I find it annoying having to learn another thing (and especially since I have a muscle-memory of using mouse + keyboard combinations).

If IBM took off a button, I'd move to Dell and if Dell did, I'd move to HP. So, why should I treat Apple any differently for not having a feature that is very common (not to mention desirable and widespread in use)? It's not like people haven't asked for this before.

It is the fact that there is something that I am used to in an input device that is not available on Apple products, and that it makes me feel extremely crippled - sure, I could learn to live with it by finding alternative means to achieve what is commonly in use elsewhere, or I could buy from another manufacturer who has what the majority of the customers want.

Re:I'd be interested if...

[Spyky]

I take it you haven't actually tried using the two finger mouse click for very long. It took me less than a week after purchasing my Macbook Pro to get used to this trick. I now find it easier and faster than a traditional right button on a trackpad. The reason? I don't have to "find" the right mouse button that is always in a different position relative to my finger depending where my finger is currently resting on the track pad. The problem of locating the left and right buttons is unique to trackpads, since your fingers are not always resting in the same position as on a mouse. You may not think the button finding is really much of problem since it's something you are already used too on your ibm or dell or hp. But try using a macbook for a week, then the two button solution on your old notebook will feel positively clunky.

Regarding the other comment in this thread about not being able to right-click drag with the two finger solution: I don't think this is true, although I'm having a hard time finding anything I have installed that can make use of a right-click drag. But it is certainly possible to move the cursor after performing a two finger right click (just keep two fingers on the pad while holding the button). Any application that allows a right-click drag should respond in exactly the same was as a right-click drag with a mouse. If anyone knows of an application that uses a right-click drag, I'll try it and respond with the results.

-Spyky

Re:I'd be interested if...

[fyngyrz]

Yes you can

I mis-described that, sorry. You can't right+left click and drag from a left click state. In other words, here I am dragging out an ellipse with the left button. I want to release the anchor, which is done in this particular application by pressing the right button without releasing the left button. On the Mac, this action (dropping the second finger) locks the trackpad's position sensing, which means that there is no way to move the anchor. With a mouse, going from left press (sizing the ellipse) to left+right press (re-position anchor) and back is a matter of pressing and releasing the right button while holding the left down, which is just how it is supposed to work. This type of control over area selections is much, much faster and more flexible than not having the facility available - you get the area selection correct sooner than you do if you have to go back and edit it, etc. Consequently, I use this feature constantly, except if I am limited to the single button, I cannot.

Also, I find that it isn't an issue in MacOS X. It is only an issue when I'm trying to use WinXP on my MacBook Pro

Right. Well, I was trying to describe the issues I faced, not the ones you faced, so... :-)

Re:The Pacific Theatre

[nacturation]

You may recall the post-war embarrassment revealing that Microsoft had parked U-Notebooks right off the coast in the closest harbor to Cupertino, California. With Microsoft's blitzkrieg campaign imploaded, Apple can safely enter the waters once again. Why else do you think Apple release Das Boot Camp?

I repeat

[Jethro]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Just make a 13.3" MacBookPro already! I don't want a MacBook and I don't want a 15.whatever laptop.

I love my 12" Powerbook but it's getting to the point where it's just too underpowered, and I don't have an upgrade path that I'm happy with.

Re:I repeat

[fyngyrz]

I'm always curious why people think they need/want a MBP instead of a plain old MB.

(1) Higher display resolution and more display space at 17 inches (I do graphics intensive stuff); (2) faster display hardware; (3) More memory; (4) faster CPU cores; (5) bigger screen; (6) more ports; (7) illuminated keyboard (turns out, I love this little feature.)

There are some things I don't care about or consider really bad design decisions -- the MBP has much better sound, but that is to say that that the MB built-in sound sucks at 1 on a scale from 0 to 10, and the MBP sound sucks at a scale of about 2 on that same scale, easily twice as good while still managing to sound like an old Victrola heard through tinfoil, while consuming space that could have really been better used by (for instance) a full keyboard instead of the same retarded one without a keypad or perhaps something clever like a built in mini-tablet or an iPod dock or really, just about anything but the really crappy speakers they put there. Sigh. And the bloody single button design, don't even get me started on how retarded that is. I have to carry a mouse so I can work because of that; now that pisses me off.

Overall, the MBP is a much better fit for me than the MB. That's not to say they couldn't improve on it.

What I would like...

[EtherAlchemist]

... is to see them get their exisiting line of notebooks to work without problems or failures before they add more to the market. I am sad to say, especially with the Mac Book Pros, it seems like they've taken a few steps back with regards to reliability.

I'm probably more than a little biased because my own has had some problems, but so have a lot of other people waiting at that damn Genius Bar in the Apple store. Other customers I've talked to are in there for really similar problems (to mine and each other) and you have to wonder how much QA went into them and then subsequently why they were released with the problems.

Of course, you could also wonder why Apple customers (myself included) continue to stand by their chosen brand and accept it.

Expand the line, but fix the problems first- not after their in the wild.

Re:What I would like...

[EtherAlchemist]

OK, you're obviously being an ass (and not a particulalry clever one), but let's apply the Apple experience to Home Depot anyway.

Let's pretend Home Depot makes and sells their own cordless drills. You buy one of these drills and shortly after purchase, it stops working properly. So you take it back to Home Depot. For the purpose of this scenario let's also say they have the ability to repair it on the spot. You go to the store, wait in line for an hour (or if you spent 15% of the cost of your expensive drill on the Home Depot care plan, you wait 30 minutes) to talk to a repair specialist.

While you're waiting, you notice many of the other people in line have the same drill. Out of curiosity you ask what's up with their drills, and they all have similar problems.

When it's your turn, you tell the repair guy you want a replacement drill and he says they don't replace them there. All he can do is repair it but you'll have to drop it off for at least a day, maybe more. You leave it there for repair, even though you need your drill for your business, because what you need more is for it to work.

While it's in for repair, you check out forums and boards in the Home Depot Drill community online. You read through the Do It Yourself notes on Home Depots site. You make note of their warranty which says they will repair OR replace faulty drills and wonder why you were told they don't replace units. In your checking around you find indeed that a lot more people have the same problems with their drills.

Home Depot calls you up and says your drill is ready, they replaced the motor and drive unit. You notice on the repair sheet this is more than half the cost of the drill itself.

Now, you take it home and it develops another problem since repair. You can't drill in reverse and if you leave it over night you have to take the battery out and put it back in in order to get it to drill forward. Back to Home Depot for you.

This time, you go to the other Home Depot because you think they might get it right. Waiting in line again, you still see most of the people here, too, have the same drill and describe the same problems you had originally.

You now tell the Home Depot Genius about your problems since repair, and he takes it away for another day or two.

Now, at this point, you're going to come to the same conclusion about your drill that I did about my notebook- it has hardware problems. But that's not the end of the story, because now you're certain it has problems and you want a new one hoping a later revision has the problems corrected.

You go home, call up the Home Depot Support line and talk to a rpoduct specialist. You tell them of your drill's problems and ask how you can just replace the unit. They want you to have it repaired again and if it has problems then they'll talk replacememnt.

Home Depot calls you up, and he can't repro your latest woe. You need to come pick up your drill.

Back home (again) you call up the Home Depot Support line (again) and get a new specialist. He sounds like he might be the key to you getting a new drill until he tells you replacement will take 5 to 7 WEEKS or that you can send your drill into their depot for repair. So now, instead of being without it for a couple of days it's going to be gone for a week or more. Nothing you say will get you a new drill and you realize they've got you over a barrel because you can't afford to pick up a new drill while you wait for them to try, again, to fix your drill.

So you know, yeah, you'd be pretty sure there was a problem with both that product line and their customer service.

Funny

[wiredlogic]

It's funny that compared to todays ridicululously oversized and overweight notebooks a computer the size of the PowerBook 2400 is now considered a "sub-notebook". I would consider a sub-notebook to be something like a classic Libretto or a Fujitsu P1610. Back when the 2400 was current a 10.4" screen was considered large.

Intel Santa Rosa platform

[frankie]

A new mobile Mac with NAND flash is 99.4% likely to be using Santa Rosa aka Centrino Pro. The chipset isn't exclusive to subnotebooks, so if this rumor turns out true then the larger MacBooks will get bumped up as well (90% likely, but Lord Steve is of course a capricious diety).

Nowhere to go.

[Ralph Spoilsport]

They HAD a very small and wonderful little laptop - I'm using one right now - a 12" G4 iBook.

The differences between the MacBook and MacBook Pro are very few and certainly not worth the $. The MacBook has drifted upward in abilities, and they stopped making the 12" machine - hence, there is nowhere for them to go. They have to re-invent what they've abandoned. As TFA says, three once was a small and venerable machine many years ago, and the 12" G4 iBook was the last of that "inertia".

Now their strategy has abandoned low end small machines. Ooops. So now we'll see one. This comes as no surprise. They have nowhere to go. Frankly, I am looking forward to this, because my G4 iBook is getting a bit long in the tooth...

RS

Re:Nowhere to go.

[rwyoder]

They HAD a very small and wonderful little laptop - I'm using one right now - a 12" G4 iBook.

So did I, and I recently sold it for 40% of what I paid for it (3.5 yrs ago), and bought a 13.3" MacBook. Remember that the MacBook has a 16:10 screen vs the 4:3 screen of the iBook. That is why the MacBook is *thinner* and *shorter* front-to-back. The only dimension that is a little larger is the width. And I now have: faster 64-bit CPU, 3x RAM, GigE, Toslink audio in/out, 802.11a/b/g/n, built-in iSight, Bluetooth, higher-resolution internal LCD, external video resolution greater than internal (including 1920x1200 & 1920x1080), external video that does not need to mirror internal screen, DVD-burner. There is *nothing* I miss from the old iBook

Re:Scaling OS X down

[necro81]

The next release of OS X will have resolution independence. It's been just beneath the surface for a few releases now. Resolution independence allows text, icons, and everything else to be scaled to look "right" on high-resolution, small scale screens, or on normal resolution, ultra-large screens.

Some links about this.

Re:The Pacific Theatre

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's called Dasbootkampfurwindowsundmacosxloaden

Strechable Laptointrops

[Doc Ruby]

I'd love to see Apple sell a notebook that's only 12"x8"x1" that flips open to reveal a fullsize keyboard and a wide screen at 1200x800 for immediate use. Then rotates the screen on its bottom right corner, then stretching out a "rollable" display across to a 16" or 24" wide by 12" high screen at 16-2400x1200.

Please, Steve. Give me a touchscreen.

[peacefinder]

If Apple makes a 10" ultraportable with a touchscreen, I'll buy one. If it's good, I'll buy 4 within a year. If it's really good, I'll buy 12 within two years. (For my company, of course.)

Seriously. I love the Fujitsu Lifebook p-series, but I'd be happier if I could use OSX on something similar.

(Unless Wyse or Neoware get their gorram act together and produce a linux-based touchscreen notebook thin client first, anyway. Get on it, people!)

Hello... Apple?

[JimDaGeek]

In the last 4 months I have bought an Intel Macbook for about $1,100 USD and an Intel iMac for about $1,300 USD. How about instead of this dumb little laptop, you give _paying_ customers like me a _real_ mid-tower option that doesn't cost more than $1,200 or so? I love your hardware and OS X is very nice. Being Intel based lets me boot WinXP and Linux, which I like very much.

I have always built my own PC systems for a lot less then what I paid you. Please give me, a paying customer, an affordable mid-tower that I can upgrade the graphics card, etc. While I really like my 17" iMac, I hate not being able to upgrade my video card to something better. If the available computers from Apple does not change, I will not be buying from you again. I will stick to a regular, home-built PC (or even one bought from Dell) and just use WinXP and Linux on it. OS X did not give me enough incentive to give up my options to upgrade. While I think OS X is very nice, it is certainly not that much better as a GUI than Linux/WinXP to give up my options to be able to upgrade the computers I have bought from you.

Steve, if you are listening, give your customers an upgradeable Intel-based mid-tower please.

Before all the mac-heads start screaming about the Mac Pro, please spare me. It is way over priced for most needs. I am a computer programmer and I have always needed better hardware, however I have _never_ spent as much on a Mac Pro for a PC I have built or bought, ever. The Mac Pro seems to be more high-end for graphics stuff, which I do not do.

Again, I have spent more than $3,000 USD in the past 4 months or so on Apple stuff. I will never do it again, unless I can get an _affordable_ and upgradable mid-tower from Apple. The two Intel Macs I have will work for me for the next 1 1/2 years - 2 years or so. However, after that, if Apple doesn't offer a consumer affordable, upgradeable mid-tower, they just lost a customer.

P.S. I know many other programmers that bought your products over the last year or so that feel the same as me. The ball is in your court Apple. You can go back to being a niche product for graphics and audio dudes or you can really give MS some kicking competition. Just listen to your customers for once and give us an upgradeable mid-tower at an affordable price.

Re:Hello... Apple?

[Jason Mark]

Not for nothing, but I don't think you're Apple's primary audience, and I doubt if they're sitting around how to get into the low margin, low cost "build your own" box market. I'm not saying the way you think of computers isn't valid, it's just I don't think you're actaully a target user for Apple. Like BMW or Mercedes, they focus on a small market share, and high profit margins, and their target audience aren't poeple who go and soup up their 1974 Ford Mustang with the newest graphics card... ya know? - Jason http://www.gravityswitch.com/

Re:Scaling OS X down

[fermion]

Mac OS was originally designed for a very small screen. The OS itself still works best, in my opinion, on a small screen. I find that I prefer X Windows on my larger screen.

What does appear to be true is the Apple application make more liberal use of space,assuming a big screen. For instance iMovie wastes an enormous amount of space. Itunes is not so bad, but the borders are in some contexts quite large. Safari is the exception, but most web pages now are exersises in the frivolous use of screen real estate.

I would think the OS itself could be put back on an 640X480 screen with few changes. However, the current culture of application GUI development has to change. A large matter, really, is hte culture of application development, and the assumption that the user has relatively unlimited resources.

They did it to themselves

[Cybrex]

I'm in a similar situation. My first non-used Mac was one of the orginal 12" PowerBooks, purchased less than a month after the 12" line came out, and it created in me a love that borders on unnatural. I'd used a 15" TiBook extensively, but this was a completely different thing, and I realized that I'll never use a laptop larger than 12" as my primary machine again. I'm completely hooked on the size.

Despite its modest performance it was my constant companion until the day I found out that Apple was abandoning the 12" form factor in their transition to Intel processors. At that point I ordered a new 12" PB will all the specs (memory, CPU, hard drive) maxed out, cloned my old machine over to the new one, and continued. (I've since upgraded the hard drive further myself.) I expected to have to wait a long time before another acceptably small Mac laptop would be available, so I got the top of the line to carry me through.

I want a faster Mac. I want more memory, higher LCD resolution, a backlit keyboard, and the ability to run Parallels or Boot Camp. I'd be willing to pay an absurd amount for these features (are you hearing me, Steve?), but I absolutely will not take a size trade-off. Not even a marginal one. 13" MacBook? Nope. Too big. I'll stick with my G4, thanks.

I hope that this rumor is true, because Apple has gotten me hooked on the ultra-portability of this form factor and no additional bells and whistles are going to convince me to "upgrade" to a larger machine.

Re:hdd size and speed

[statusbar]

In general, a 200 gig 4200 rpm drive is faster than a 7200 rpm 100 gig drive. Same number of platters, more data bandwidth across the head. The difference is because the 200 gig drive uses perpendicular magnetic domains.

--jeffk++

Re:The important question

[phloe]

...surely it would be MacPamphlet?

Re:I would be all for it!

[BlackSnake112]

the slot loading DVD/CD drive is nice till you really start to use it. Apple has stopped repairing the macbook and macbook pros around here since the drives last 3-4 months and then need repair. Either the felt stuff comes off then goes into the drive, or a CD/DVD doesn't lock in and will not load.

Granted I have setup a USB external drive for most of our people now but the other people with regular tray loading drives do not have this problem. Also these people use something in the drive over 90% of the time. They are watching movies/playing music/loading somehthing with the drive over 90% of the time the laptop is on.

I know it is not cool and no 'Apple' to use a tray loading drive in your notebook but I'd like to see it. I am tired of people calling me for a broken Apple DVD drive.

Re:The important question

[mollymoo]

It'll be called the MacPamphlet.

Re:hdd size and speed

[statusbar]

Benchmarks of 120gb vs 120gb are not relevant. Benchmarks of 200 gb perp vs a 100 gb non-perp with same number of platters and tracks are what matter.

If you has 2 drives both at the same RPM, the 200 gig perp drive has twice as many bits per second going past the heads.

So a 200g 4200 RPM perp drive would be the same head bit rate as a theoretical 100g 8400 rpm drive.

This comparison is of course only valid when both disk drives have the same number of platters and tracks on each platter and the data rate is not limited by the interface to the computer.

Measure it!

--jeffk++