Slashdot Mirror
The CPU Redefined: AMD Torrenze and Intel CSI
janp writes "In the near future the Central Processing Unit (CPU) will not be as central anymore. AMD has announced the Torrenza platform that revives the concept of co-processors. Intel is also taking steps in this direction with the announcement of the CSI. With these technologies in the future we can put special chips (GPU's, APU's, etc. etc.) directly on the motherboard in a special socket. Hardware.Info has published a clear introduction to AMD Torrenza and Intel CSI and sneak peaks into the future of processors."
CSI? De-centralized CPU? Where will they be located; Miami, New York or Las Vegas?
My web domain.
Here spins the Wheel Of Reincarnation http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/W/wheel-of-re incarnation.html watch how everything comes back and then goes away again and then comes back . . .
If this were really happening, what would you think?
The CPUs will still be multi-core. They will also integrate as many features as makes sense. However, there are limits on how big the die can be and remain feasible for high volume manufacturing. Using an external co-processor is both more flexible and more powerful.
The interesting thing about this whole co-processor approach is that the same interface used to connect multiple CPUs to each other is being opened up for other processing devices. This makes it possible to mix and match cores as desired. For example, you could build a mesh of multi-core CPUs in a more "normal" configuration, or you could mate each CPU with a DSP-like number cruncher and make a special purpose "supercomputer". It will interesting to see what types of compute beasts will emerge from this.
Adapting another quote: "If you want to create a better computer, you'll you'll end up with an Amiga". It's more or less what they're describing here. Amiga made heavy use of coprocessors back in the days. It could do some quite heavy stuff (well, at the time), while the CPU usage stayed below 10%.
One cool thing I discovered while I was learning to program was that you could make one of the coprocessors interrupt when the electon beam of the monitor was at a certain position. Pretty nifty.
BTW, for those who are too young/old to remember, those were the days of dos, and friends of mine were bragging with their 16 color EGA cards. Amiga had 4096 colors at the time.
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
It's a cost and feasibility thing. The original FPUs were separate because they were expensive, not everyone needed them, and it was impractical to integrate them into the cpu because it would make the die too large and result in large numbers of failed chips. They became part of the chip later once the design was refined and scaled down.
The same applies to trying to integrate GPUs into the CPU, at the moment a top-end GPU is too large and expensive to integrate, and not everyone needs one. The move to having a GPU in a CPU socket should cut a lot of cost because the GPU manufacturers won't have to create an add-in-card to go with the GPU, they can just design the chip to plug straight into a standardised socket.
At the same time low-end GPUs are small and cheap enough that they are being integrated into motherboards, integrating a basic GPU into the CPU seems like a good next move, and the major cpu manufacturers seem to agree. IIRC Via's smallest boards integrate a basic cpu, northbridge and gpu into one chip? AMD are definitely planning it with their aptly named "Fusion". *Checks wikipedia* Yeah, Via's is called "CoreFusion".
Still, you are right, all-in-one cpus are the future, we're just not quite there yet.
that revives the concept op co-processors.
Slashdot's computers might benefit from a co-processor, the function of which is to monitor and correct spelling and grammar errors. It would serve like an editor's job, only better, because, you know, it might actually work.
(Bye-bye karma!)
"What do you think?" "I think 'What, do you think?!'"
Ahh - the Amiga. My favorite machine during that era. I got my A1000 the first day it was available. Modern OS's could still learn a lot from that 20 year old OS. Why oh why are we still using "DOS Compatible" hardware????
Amiga had 4096 colors at the time.
Better put "4096" with a "*" qualifier. You couldn't assign each pixel an exact color - the scheme got you more colors by being able to set a bit that said that the next pixel modifies the previous pixel by "x". In this way, they could get more colors using less memory than traditional X bits per color per pixel schemes (Amiga was a bitplane architecture.)
Anyway, back on topic, I wish that the CPU manufacturers could finally come up with a "generational" standard socket. A well-designed module socket should last as long as an expansion slot standard (ISA,PCI,PCIe) and not change for damn near every model of chip. I should be able to go out and get a one, 2, 4, 8 socket motherboard, and stick any CPU / GPU / DSP module into it I want. Can we please finally shitcan the 1980's motherboard designs?
The limits aren't such a big deal.
Quad-core processors are already rolling off the lines and user demand for them doesn't really exist.
They could easily throw together a 2xCPU/1xGPU/1xDSP configuration at similar complexity.
And the market would actually care about that chip.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
You are correct - sockets are just a reincarnation of slots, but less flexible because you're limited to what you can put on a single chip instead of an entire card.
Perhaps the better thing to do would be better slot designs (not that we need more with all the PCI flavors floating around right now) with integrated, defined cooling channels. If you were to make the card spec with a box design rather than a flat card, you could have a non-connector end mate with a cooling trunk and use a squirrel cage (higher volume, quieter, more efficient)fan to ventilate the cards.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Since when is XML a new usage model requiring advances in processor design?
Since it became bloatware that is capable of wasting 90% of the processing power of a modern computer.
</sarcasm>
But think. There is definitely money in non-upgradable computers - especially in the office desktop market. The cheaper the all-in-one solution, the more often the customer will upgrade the whole shebang.
Example: in my workplace, we have nice-ass Dells which do almost nothing and store all their data on a massive SAN. They're 2.6GHz beasts with a gig of ram, a 160G HD, and a SWEET ATI vid card each. Now, while I personally make use of it all proper-like, most people here could get along with a 1GHZ/512MRAM/16GHD/Onboard video system.
I think Intel/AMD stands to make a lot of money if they were to build an all-in-one-chip computer, ie: CPU, RAM, Video, Sound, Network, and a generous flash drive on a single chip.
110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
Actually, no thank you. I've had enough problems ever since they started to integrate more and more peripherals on the motherboard. I'd be troubled if I'd have to choose between either a VMX-less, DDR3-capable chip with the GPU I wanted, a VMX- and DDR3-capable chip with a bad GPU, a VMX-capable but DDR2 chip with a good GPU, or a chip that has all three but an IO-APIC that isn't supported by Linux, or a chip that I could actually use but costs $500.
Instead of gaining those last 10% of performance, I'd prefer a modular architecture, thank you. Whatever is so terribly wrong with PCI-Express anyway?
AMD will compete by releasing "Law & Order: Central Processing Unit".
Support Right To Repair Legislation.