Vonage Loses VoIP Case With Verizon

cdrudge writes "A federal jury on Thursday said Vonage Holdings Corp. violated 3 of 5 patents of Verizon Communications Inc. and ordered the upstart Internet-phone company to pay $58m in damages as well as 5.5% in royalty fees per month per customer. Verizon said it would seek an injunction to block Vonage from using its patented technology. The jury did reject Verizon's claim of $200m in damages and that Vonage deliberately violated Verizon's patents. As you might expect, Vonage said it would appeal the decision and seek a stay if an injunction is granted. Judge Claude Hilton set a hearing for March 23 on whether to grant an injunction."

Comments

Re:Hmmm...

[ximenes]

Vonage has two plans, unlimited is $25 and 500 minutes is $14. The instant they introduced the 500 minute plan I switched down to it. This includes all of the services (voicemail in particular) that you pay through the nose for with a real phone company.

I cannot even conceive of using 500 minutes in a single month.

Re:What patents ?

[1310nm]

"The infringed patents cover a method for translating calls between an Internet network and the standard telephone network, call-waiting features and wireless fidelity, or Wi-Fi, handsets. Vonage was cleared of infringing two patents related to billing systems designed to prevent fraud."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&si d=anDrCRkj4nn0&refer=home

Google patent search is your friend

[Ungrounded Lightning]

Maybe some of these?

Re:Hmmm...

[pdhenry]

1) incoming calls don't come out the the 500 bucket.
2) calls to toll free numbers don't come out of the 500 bucket.
3) calls to Vonage customers don't come out of the 500 bucket.

It's harder to burn through 500 Vonage minutes than one would think.

Holy...crap...

[1310nm]

Look at these patents:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fnet ahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r= 1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=6137869.PN.&OS=PN/6137869&RS= PN/6137869

So basically any VOIP system utilizing a database to authenticate callers and bill them for usage is infringement. Amazing.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fnet ahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r= 1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=6104711.PN.&OS=PN/6104711&RS= PN/6104711

VOIP DNS.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fnet ahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r= 1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=6282574.PN.&OS=PN/6282574&RS= PN/6282574

Same.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fnet ahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r= 1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=6298062.PN.&OS=PN/6298062&RS= PN/6298062

Voice mail / call waiting / call forwarding I assume. Now this is proprietary because it's been ported to VOIP systems?

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fnet ahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r= 1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=6359880.PN.&OS=PN/6359880&RS= PN/6359880

This looks more applicable to wireless networks; I wonder how it applied in this case.

Re:Hmmm...

[NormalVisual]

I'm paying a comparable amount through Vitelity and I've been quite happy with the service. $1.49/mo. for each DID, 1.39 cents/min/channel outbound, and 1.1 cents/min/channel inbound. It's very much an ala carte service - you can order as many DIDs as you want for a single account, and if you want CNAM lookups (caller ID), you pay for them on a per-use basis (something like 2 cents/lookup IIRC). Most importantly for me, they actively support and welcome customers running their own PBX boxes (Asterisk , etc.) and they will let you have as many simultaneously active calls as your bandwidth will support.

I've had no problems with the service, and they were very helpful in porting my previous Vonage number over. They do offer a few other plans, but the ala carte offering worked best for me.

Prior Art: Free World Dialup, MSN Messenger?

[Cocoshimmy]

The patents in question seem to have claim to have invented VOIP in 1999. However, the free world dialup project has been around since 1995. Also, back in 1998-1999 I remember Microsoft was offering free PC-Phone calls to the US using MSN Messenger. Their partner was charging for the same service. I think that would certainly qualify as prior art.

Re:Prior Art: Free World Dialup, MSN Messenger?

[Cocoshimmy]

I don't know why my parent post got modded as a troll as they are all valid points. Perhaps I did not cite my references.

As someone mentioned earlier, here are the patent numbers: 6137869 [billing algorithm for voip], 6104711 [dns for voip],6282574 [dns for voip], 6298062 [conversion of PSTN signals to IP packets and providing PSTN services over IP networks], 6359880 [Wireless VOIP router]. I am not going to link these to the patent office because it's tedious, but you can look them up for yourself.

Net2Phone, launched their VOIP services back in 1997. In order to establish said services they implemented most if not all of the above claimed patents and did so before most of the patent applications were filed. The only two which were filed before the service was launched were the first two patents in the above list and they are certainly not unique and unobvious. Billing for VOIP services? Pretty obvious since they announced their pay service in 1995 which was 2 years prior to the patent application. The second one was simply DNS extended to provide things like caller ID. Not exactly ground breaking but this is perhaps the only leverage they may have IF nobody else was providing VOIP services at the time or prior to. That is a big IF because it is likely many of the telcos were already using something similar for digital cell phone networks such as GSM (which is also a packet network created around 1993).

Of course there is also the Network Voice Protocol which was the first implementation of VOIP invented in 1973 which preceded all the patents. My point is, they really don't have much of a case with these patents.