Slashdot Mirror


Best Presentation on Software Business and OSS

stephe writes "Brent Williams presented 'Open Source Business Models: A Wall Street Look at a Wild 2006 and the Prospects for Even More Fun in 2007' at EclipseCon last Tuesday. Brent is (temporarily) an independent equity research analyst, who moved to Wall Street after 20 years in the software trenches. He starts with a tear-down of the Oracle Linux debate and the Microsoft Novell deal. I especially like his taking apart the commoditization myth and his observations around interface standards versus standards of implementation. He graciously allowed me to post the slides on my blog. They're getting a lot of interest from the open source business crowd, and I thought the Slashdot crowd would want to see them as well. Enjoy."

50 comments

  1. Re:what a nice topic by JensenDied · · Score: 1

    Its either that, or they realized that what they had already was not keeping customers coming back as people were moving to OSX and Linux which both sport different gui's and decided to try a gamble on going with a new appearance.

    *Disclaimer: This is somewhat of giving them the benefit of the doubt, and I have not looked at Office anything past XP.

    --

    09:F9:11:02 - 9D:74:E3:5B - D8:41:56:C5 - 63:56:88:C0

  2. First thought from first slide... by Zapraki · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Can I really take the guy seriously when he's using a hotmail account?

    1. Re:First thought from first slide... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Believe it or not, I know a lot of profesional people who use hotmail accounts. Why? I have no freakin clue outside maybe they aren't technicly inclined and someone insisted then needed email. It is porbably the same reasons why people were paying extra to have AOL, they started on it and didn't want to lose it.

      I even use hotmail and yahoo acounts for public interaction. This way i can control the spam to my real accounts a little better. Maybe this is his thinking?

    2. Re:First thought from first slide... by Provocateur · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't be such an email nazi. He may have just decided to keep one email ID that didn't cost anything or force him to remember yet another password or maintain yet another mailbox free from spam.

      But if he uses Outlook, hand me that pitchfork will ya, you hold the torch...

      --
      WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
    3. Re:First thought from first slide... by Zapraki · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Ya, sorry, I didn't mean to sound snobby. It just frustrates me when people insist on sticking with what is an inferior solution (imho), when much better ones are there for the taking, with basically nothing extra required.

      Although I guess the very weakness of hotmail is what could prevent people from changing. No forwarding?? If somebody had a long list of contacts who emailed that account, they might have to stick it out rather than risk losing contacts with a switch over. Or else maintain multiple accounts, which could be even worse.

      And yes, haha, may Outlook burn and burn.

    4. Re:First thought from first slide... by earnest+murderer · · Score: 1

      Considering you got an "Insightful" moderation when you have no e-mail address and your message is the product of an association fallacy... I'd say this fellow is at the least more credible than our moderators tonight. I know you're just being a bit silly behind that incredulity, but someone agreed with you.

      It used to be that you had to be black or female to warrant that kind of discrimination.

      And that's all I have to say about that.

      --
      Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
    5. Re:First thought from first slide... by clickety6 · · Score: 0

      yes you can. Hotmail has been around a lot longer than most other web-based, free email solutions and is perfectly adequate for day-to-day use, especially when you don't want to give out your private email address to all and sundry. Sure, gmail and others might be better now, but it's a pain in the rear to start giving people new email addresses and expect them to all change from using an old one. if you've been using one for years and it's served you well, why change?

      Is this just slashdot-snobbery because Hotmail is now owned by Microsoft? ;-)

      --
      ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
    6. Re:First thought from first slide... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Is this just slashdot-snobbery because Hotmail is now owned by Microsoft?"

      No, I think the point he's making is that Hotmail is cr@p.

    7. Re:First thought from first slide... by aputerguy · · Score: 1

      I've never understood why more people don't pony up $5-10/year for their own domain name. GoDaddy includes 100 free email forwarding accounts. That way you get to pick your own personal domain name and email address and never have to change it. If you want to switch from hotmail to gmail or to some other ISP just change over the forwarding. If you don't like your domain name provider, then just transfer the domain name to another one.

      I guess even this is either too complicated or too much of a hassle for the vast majority of people out there...

    8. Re:First thought from first slide... by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      Hotmail has been around a lot longer than most other web-based, free email solutions and is perfectly adequate for day-to-day use, especially when you don't want to give out your private email address to all and sundry. ...if you've been using one for years and it's served you well, why change? Is this just slashdot-snobbery because Hotmail is now owned by Microsoft?

      There is a difference between taking into account that a person is using some brand of product and taking into account when someone who is supposedly a professional in a field is using a very poor quality product in a way that is visible to others. It does speak to their probable level of competence. When I see a resume come across my desk and the engineer in question has an AOL e-mail address, that raises a concern. Hotmail may not be quite the same, but it is still a concern. As for public versus private e-mail addresses, most good e-mail services offer throw away e-mail aliases that are a lot nicer for such a purpose as you can use different ones for different interactions, giving you more insight into the sources of spam and causing less upset to legitimate if unimportant messages when you kill one.

    9. Re:First thought from first slide... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I only keep a hotmail account to e-mail people with hotmail accounts. It's insane. I've tested it several times from google mail and yahoo mail... most of the e-mails I send to hotmail from those accounts never make it, and I don't get any error message to the sender accounts. I keep telling people I know to drop using it. (it's also very clunky). But the only way I'm sure my e-mail will get to those who stick with it is to e-mail them from it. It really sucks.

    10. Re:First thought from first slide... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should become a bureaucrat in a socialist country....you have the perfect mindset..

      "You don't know what you like and what works for you, we'll tell you what you like and what works for you..."

      Hotmail is not "crap", it works fine...I use Yahoo, GMail, and Hotmail and they are all essentially the same. These people who complain about all the problems they've had..well all I can say is "user error".

    11. Re:First thought from first slide... by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      You should become a bureaucrat in a socialist country....

      How do you know I'm not already one?

      you have the perfect mindset..

      Oh, I see... you're a psychic. Since you obviously can read my mind to know my mindset, I won't bother replying to the rest of your comment. You already know what I thought anyway. And yeah, I am picturing you with one of those on your head.

  3. premium brands ignoring price competition? by turing_m · · Score: 5, Interesting

    FTA:
    "What price changes did Red Hat make immediately in the wake of
    the Oracle announcement?
    - None. Zero, zip, nada.
    - We're not hearing of any individual deal discounting.
    - Red Hat knows that they have a premium brand, so ignoring people
    competing on price is the right strategy.The role of a premium brand
    - Lamborghini ignores price competition between Hyundai and Kia.
    - Oracle ignores price competition between MySQL and PostgreSQL."

    This is not the case at all. In the last few years, MySQL has matured and more people have found out about PostgreSQL (in fact, PostgreSQL is probably the best kept secret OSS has to offer - it has a kick ass feature set and it's completely and utterly free). For a large amount of enterprise stuff, PostgreSQL is more than adequate and as a bonus, does not treat your data as garbage.

    Anyone considering building some sort of database application has the option of spending a couple months (with change left over) from the money they would spend on an Oracle license, and invest it in learning PostgreSQL. At the current rate of developement, it will in all likelihood solve any future problem they could have. For free. No worries about licenses. Anyone in a startup where money is tight and time is cheap should be considering PostgreSQL.

    This has had direct ramifications on the strategy of all the big database players. At the very least, they all now have a free entry level option to compete with OSS competitors.

    --
    If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
    1. Re:premium brands ignoring price competition? by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "- Oracle ignores price competition between MySQL and PostgreSQL."

      This is not the case at all. In the last few years, MySQL has matured and more people have found out about PostgreSQL (in fact, PostgreSQL is probably the best kept secret OSS has to offer - it has a kick ass feature set and it's completely and utterly free).


      How are those two statements at odds with each other? Oracle doesn't want to be seen as a price competitor, they want to get customers who think their 10,000 row DB is "enterprise" and those who think "you get what you pay for".

      They say that if you make a RFQ and get one offer for $100k, three for $10k and one for $1k, they're likely to drop the $100k (too expensive) and the $1k (must have missed something). MySQL and PostgreSQL score about 10x as high on the WTF scale to most PHBs. If anything is free* in their world, they expect a bait-and-switch like *upgrade now to $foo pro for the good features, that was just the hook.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:premium brands ignoring price competition? by turing_m · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "They say that if you make a RFQ and get one offer for $100k, three for $10k and one for $1k, they're likely to drop the $100k (too expensive) and the $1k (must have missed something). MySQL and PostgreSQL score about 10x as high on the WTF scale to most PHBs. If anything is free* in their world, they expect a bait-and-switch like *upgrade now to $foo pro for the good features, that was just the hook."

      I suppose if you are dealing with a PHB you have your work cut out for you, and in all likelihood at this stage of the game your boss will side with one of the major players.

      A major niche (and it's really a wedge, IMO) of PostgreSQL is in the area of heavy cost constraint, used by a smart individual with some time up his sleeve. This could either be a start up business (e.g. run by a college student/grad) or in a small-medium sized business where a technically savvy employee wants to make a name for himself by building some sort of money making/saving database application and has enough time to do so. It could easily happen with a (perhaps fairly computer illiterate) founder who pinches pennies to the extent that he might begrudge even the $1000 option. Often founders of companies are this way - pinching pennies was how they got their start.

      Another market niche is the fairly low priced database application needing a decent backend. You can undercut your competition knowing full well your application will work, and still make more money.

      A few of these examples, especially successful startups, and PostgreSQL will build the sort of momentum that linux built 5-10 years ago in the server market. I think it is already happening. What will slow it is the difficulty in transferring from an existing database installation to an OSS version. Switching firewalls, file servers etc. is not as nearly as troublesome as database migration (from and to any platform).

      However, the database functionality is there. PostgreSQL holds your data well. It hews close to the SQL standards. Complex joins are no problem. With a little work, you can make your backend sing with functions, triggers etc. And it's fast, when you are actually comparing apples to apples (i.e. you are comparing two ACID compliant RDBMS' with referential integrity constraints, not a mythical database consisting of MyISAM performance with InnoDB functionality).

      I suspect the rise of PostgreSQL will be more meteoric than most pundits are expecting.

      --
      If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
    3. Re:premium brands ignoring price competition? by djw · · Score: 1

      I suspect the rise of PostgreSQL will be more meteoric...
      I'm not sure what the exact definition of "meteor" is, but I'm pretty sure they aren't allowed to rise.
  4. A lot of smoke in these slides by Darkforge · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The magic happens on Slide 35, where he argues against the "myth" that commoditization will destroy all profits in the open source software market. (This is related to the more general argument that OSS vendors are trading on nothing but fad in a bubble, that will eventually burst once people figure out that this stuff is available for Free and that there is no barrier to entry in this market.)

    Specifically, he claims that the open source software marketplace is unlike a generic commodity marketplace and more like the proprietary enterprise software marketplace... but half of the six points on that slide (4, 5 and 6) amount to nothing more than the argument that, if the OSS market were a commodity market, firms wouldn't be making any money, would they? A circular argument if I ever heard one.

    His only substantive point is the first bullet on that slide, where he notes that in a generic commodity marketplace, there are "no switching costs to buy from a different producer," but in the OSS marketplace, "customers are loyal to incumbent distribution vendors."

    On Slide 39, he explains this behavior: the OSS market "exhibits aspects of a branded consumer luxury good," much like the consumer market for "perfume" or "mineral water," even though "they can't pass a blind taste test half the time."

    That's reassuring. For a minute, I thought this whole OSS market was a fad built on hype. But now that I know that people are buying Red Hat like a fashion accessory, now I get it. Where do I sign up to invest?

    P.S. The OSS community/software has nothing to lose from a growing/bursting OSS market bubble and everything to gain. The end result will be better software for you and me... and smarting investors.

    --

    When I moderate, I only use "-1, Overrated". That way, I never get meta-moderated!

    1. Re:A lot of smoke in these slides by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      His only substantive point is the first bullet on that slide

      Hey man, don't be so picky: TFA makes up for the lack of substance with creativity:
      • "When will double entry bookkeeping be replaced by triple-entry?"

      Should the author ever want to change his field away from "independent equity research analyst", I'd suggest to go into marketing, naturally only after having revolutionized accounting with multiple entries and split records...
    2. Re:A lot of smoke in these slides by kripkenstein · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think he does a good job in pointing out the 'brand loyalty' issue with OSS - people prefer distros etc. for reasons that are, in part, not completely rational. But he also points out other issues relevant here, on slide 38, issues that are relevant to both proprietary software and OSS: that software has risks, and has a high degree of inability to estimate those risks. This leads to brand loyalty for fairly rational reasons.

      For example, it makes sense to stick to Red Hat as opposed to switching to Oracle's new offering, given that software is tricky stuff. Oracle may apply Red Hat patches late, they may apply them wrongly, and they make enter new bugs of their own. The same is true for CentOS - no matter how similar it is supposed to be to Red Hat, it still depends on someone applying the Red Hat patches and so forth.

      Not that I wouldn't use CentOS, I have in the past, and I might in the future. But for large corporations, it is perfectly rational to be loyal to a successful brand like Red Hat, even though they sell OSS. Thus, OSS is not a commodity market, even though it might seem like one at first glance. At least that is how I understand the slides.

  5. Re:The Car/Software analogy strikes again! by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I do believe you meant page 43. Page 48 is the last slide.

    Weird, you're right that 48 is the last slide, but I see the pic of two car interfaces on page 40....

    --
    There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
  6. Re:The Car/Software analogy strikes again! by RuBLed · · Score: 5, Funny

    There are chairs on both Page 40 and Page 43. That might have confused him although I believe the chair on Page 43 is not designed to be comfortable.

  7. OSS Business Model Does Not Exist (mostly) by SerpentMage · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I went through the slides and looked at what business models there is for Open Source. The slides do not make the point that there is a business model. Yes Redhat makes money, but to me Redhat is a peanut gallery company. Sure people know them, but they do not have a serious revenue stream.

    Let's compare. Redhat and Google started in the same era of the Internet bubble. Look at both companies today. Google is a gorilla making oodles of money. Redhat, well, they make money, but billions? I think not. And this is the crux of the open source business model in that it is a revenue stream. Does this mean open source is not useful? Far from it. Open Source is extremely useful and people are proving it everyday. Though what people need to realize is that these days it is not about building a software business model, but about building an information business model. The Google's, Amazon's, EBay's, Flicker's, etc use open source, but their business is data, not software. People need to get that through their noggen...

    --

    "You can't make a race horse of a pig"
    "No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
    1. Re:OSS Business Model Does Not Exist (mostly) by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure google and redhat is a fair comparison. Thye do completly different things. I owned a dumptuck about the time they stated up. I didn't make billions or even millions.

      But i do see were the seperation is as you pointed out. Companies usinf feree software tend to do better then companies making and selling free software. But then again, Both if them make more then i did with my failed dumptruck business.

    2. Re:OSS Business Model Does Not Exist (mostly) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google and Redhat
      But then again, Both if them make more then i did with my failed dumptruck business. /quote

        Ah! You see, the dump truck itself was your mistake. You should have bought a series of tubes.
    3. Re:OSS Business Model Does Not Exist (mostly) by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      Though what people need to realize is that these days it is not about building a software business model, but about building an information business model. The Google's, Amazon's, EBay's, Flicker's, etc use open source, but their business is data, not software. People need to get that through their noggen...

      A agree with you as far as you take it, but I don't think you're taking your argument far enough. The open source business model is one in which you use open source and contribute to open source in order to facilitate your main value proposition, but where it is not your main value proposition. Google sells organization and a service that allows people to find what they want and businesses to deliver ads to who they want. They utilize a lot of open source software to do that, but not for their core value proposition. Other companies are not information purveyors at all, but use open source in the same way. Some hardware manufacturer that makes routers probably builds on NetBSD for the base and uses a pile of free software tools to make their hardware more useful. Their business is selling hardware, which is of course not "open source" if such a term applies. Whether you sell an information service, hardware, travel arrangements, or pencils you can use open source to facilitate your business at a lower cost and with more flexibility than closed source software.

      This is great for everyone who does something other than create commercial, closed software for sale as their primary business. Open source development is a more efficient way to do that and one that brings added value to end users. You can survive in that market for a limited time only until big business fully understands what is happening and then you'd better be looking for a new business model.

      There is room in this equation for users who pay for the development, for developers who do the work that is needed and may also be users, and for facilitators who are go-betweens, but those facilitators are used to taking a huge piece of the pie which will be a lot smaller in the future.

    4. Re:OSS Business Model Does Not Exist (mostly) by El_Oscuro · · Score: 0

      Google actually uses a stripped down, highly modified Redhat distro to run their servers (about 250,000 of them) that execute your search queries. http://www.internetnews.com/xSP/article.php/348704 1/

      --
      "Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
  8. already shdtdd ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where is a mirror, please !?!

  9. Re:The Car/Software analogy strikes again! by udippel · · Score: 1

    I believe the chair on Page 43 is not designed to be comfortable

    Unlucky you, I have no mod points ... !

  10. Source - EclipseCon by NovaX · · Score: 4, Informative

    Perhaps the editors could have taken the slides from the source, rather than an opportunistic blogger who couldn't handle the bandwidth?

    Tech Session
    PDF slides

    --

    "Open Source?" - Press any key to continue
    1. Re:Source - EclipseCon by NovaX · · Score: 2

      Hmm. Well, I take that back now that he can finally handle the bandwidth and his blog isn't riddled with ads.

      --

      "Open Source?" - Press any key to continue
  11. Well he makes a lot of errors by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For instance claiming that there are a large number of producers and consumers in the commodity market.Eh what? How many commodity producers are there? Flower mills, power generators, oil producers etc etc. Not all that many and they are merging all the time.

    He also claims that it is easy to go into that market, yeah right. Isn't it exactly other way around usually, hard to get into a commodity market?

    I think we got the wonders of reverse logic in a powerpoint presentation at work here.

    The trick is to put your conclusion on a slide and then keep inserting pages in front of it to make sure that you arrive there.

    Yes his end conclusion makes some sense, that software is not a commodity and that opensource business model can work, BUT the logic he uses to get there is seriously flawed.

    The simple fact is that economics are a lot more complex then he makes them out to be.

    Take the product water, getting into the tap water market is next to impossible. Just try it, go ahead, dig up the whole town to install new pipes, find a clean source of water, put installations in place to get it to drinking level and setup up the whole supporting operation. No hope.

    Getting into the bottled water market is a lot easier, just find a clean spring and get a cheapo bottle plant and voila, new brand product and watch the millions roll in.

    So is water a commodity? No, not by this guys definition, tap water don't count because there is only one supplier and bottled water don't count because it is not massive enough. Brand loyalty is extremely low. How many people do you know that drink bottled water who won't drink tap water (in countries were tap water is drinkable) and remember, the water you make coffee with counts.

    But his greatest mistake is this. Red Hat does NOT sell software. It sells support. Read this and understand this. Red Hat is NOT in the production industry it is in the services industry.

    Go back a few pages and read his list of products in commodity markets, he mentions wheat, pork bellies, cars, chips nails etc etc.

    ALL physical products.

    He doesn't mention banking, insurance, support, even labor services. Red Hat doesn't have a physical product, it doesn't BUY a ton of plastic to produce 10.000 RHEL discs. It sells a service, the service of support a software package that you can just as easily get for free.

    The service industry is a WHOLE different beast, for instance it is almost always far easier to get into. All you need is a phone line to start a support line after all. Even banking and insurance are easy, all you need is a bit of cash. Loan sharking is excellent proof of just how easy it is to get into banking (easy ain't the same as legal).

    The service industry is also different from the production industry in another extremely simple way. Labor.

    If Vista had been a physical product MS could have easily finished it on time by just hiring more people, if you want to build a road faster you just have more people working at it, more or less you can just keep upping the labor force to increase production.

    Service industry on the other hand can't be automated. You got production plants that are run by one old man while next door the office has hundreds of people manning the phone lines. Luckily scaling this up is easy and relativly cheap. It don't cost that much to install another 100 phones lines for support.

    Anyway, I think the article is just plain wrong in its basic logic. THe conclusion might be correct but that is because the author already arrived at that beforehand.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  12. OSS initial counterstrike against patent suits by Demerara · · Score: 1

    FTA:
    Open source community can get very good at defending against patent
    litigation very quickly.

    Prior art claims, third-party reviews, using Internet to help "patent
    busters" coordinate efforts.

    Real possibility that 100% of Microsoft patents will be attacked in
    initial counterstrike.
     


    I can't wait!

    I also love the Hyundai & Lamborghini "interface standard" comparison. Tres drole that one.

    --
    Backward%20compatibility%20is%20over-rated
  13. Postgres by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is not the case at all. In the last few years, MySQL has matured and more people have found out about PostgreSQL (in fact, PostgreSQL is probably the best kept secret OSS has to offer - it has a kick ass feature set and it's completely and utterly free). For a large amount of enterprise stuff, PostgreSQL is more than adequate and as a bonus, does not treat your data as garbage.

    Anyone considering building some sort of database application has the option of spending a couple months (with change left over) from the money they would spend on an Oracle license, and invest it in learning PostgreSQL. At the current rate of developement, it will in all likelihood solve any future problem they could have. For free. No worries about licenses. Anyone in a startup where money is tight and time is cheap should be considering PostgreSQL. That's only partly true. PostgreSQL is a nice database for small businesses or even in larger companies or corporations for small to medium projects. You can save a bundle on Oracle licenses if you use Postgres wisely just like you can save a bundle on Red Hat Server licenses if you use Centos wisely. I'm not even going to get into the debate as to why I'd choose Postges over MySql since that discussion has a disappointing habit of degenerating into a flamewar. I have seen Postgres used numerous times in the Corp world and where it failed was usually in projects that went from small to very large and highly loaded with great speed. Basically it did not scale well. The problem was not so much the issue of missing features in Postgres since the feature set is growing at a steady pace, the problem was with stability. As the projects grew larger, the traffic went up and it became imperative that the database be available 24/7 with next to 0 down time Postgres didn't work out all that well because of stability issues. This will change as Postgres matures but at the moment developers should think hard about when they use Postgres instead of Oracle or some other high end database. In some situations it will work in others you will end up porting your Postgres system to a proprietary database after getting burned and changing databases in mid stream can be a bitch. You might want to do that because the proprietary product is more stable but even if it isn't the most important reasons would be that it comes with guaranteed vendor support and because there are plenty of Oracle Certified mercenaries you can bring in to help you an emergency. When you are loosing the equivalent of the price of a new server every few of hours or so because your database is down, the idea of throwing hardware, Oracle consultants and Oracle licenses at the problem, becomes less of an issue. In the end I think Postgres and other similar OSS database have the potential to do to the database market what Linux did to the *nix server market, it will eat up the low end niche of the market, especially when it grows the kind of support base Linux now has. At the moment the only support I can get for Postgres databases where I live and work is by advertising for people with experience and hope somebody bites, there are four companies here that hire out Oracle specialists as consultants and all offer 24/7 emergency services. The prices are obscene but it's comforting to know the option is available

    As always this is my experience, your milage may vary.
    --
    Only to idiots, are orders laws.
    -- Henning von Tresckow
    1. Re:Postgres by ortholattice · · Score: 1

      I have seen Postgres used numerous times in the Corp world and where it failed was usually in projects that went from small to very large and highly loaded with great speed. Basically it did not scale well. The problem was not so much the issue of missing features in Postgres since the feature set is growing at a steady pace, the problem was with stability. As the projects grew larger, the traffic went up and it became imperative that the database be available 24/7 with next to 0 down time Postgres didn't work out all that well because of stability issues. This will change as Postgres matures but at the moment developers should think hard about when they use Postgres instead of Oracle or some other high end database.

      I personally haven't encountered any stability problems with Postgres, but I haven't used it for very large scale applications. However, I have migrated from Postgres to Oracle (not because of scalability/stability but because the client wanted it) and it was relatively straightforward. Having gone through this, I would feel comfortable starting with Postgres with an eye towards eventually migrating to Oracle when/if the situation warranted - it shouldn't be the huge IT migration nightmare some might fear. Although going back might be a little harder, depending on what Oracle features are used.

      The biggest part of the project was translating PL/pgSQL to PL/SQL, and I wrote some throwaway scripts to translate the subset that we used. I posted about this, and there was an interest in the translation, an example of which I emailed to someone in that thread. If there is still interest, I can email the example to a volunteer here who wants to redistribute it (I don't want to make my email public).

    2. Re:Postgres by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 1

      ...Having gone through this, I would feel comfortable starting with Postgres with an eye towards eventually migrating to Oracle when/if the situation warranted - it shouldn't be the huge IT migration nightmare some might fear. Although going back might be a little harder, depending on what Oracle features are used.

      The biggest part of the project was translating PL/pgSQL to PL/SQL, and I wrote some throwaway scripts to translate the subset that we used... I'd have to agree, that's pretty much the worst part of it all. Complex DB enabled applications tend to have a lot of PL/pgSQL or PL/SQL code which often makes use of custom features unique to the database. Another thing that often causes problems is when developers of code external to the DB, i.e. webapps, servlets, webservices writen in .NET/Java/Python/etc. fail to abstract the database code from their program code. If a Postgres specific library is hardwired into these applications, migrating is more difficult than just reconfiguring or performing minor rewrites of a database abstraction layer. You have to rewrite these apps. It's not the world's most complex job but pretty tedious and it costs money. A properly designed well abstracted application is easy to port. Unfortunately many applications are neither, especially in eager and inexperienced startup companies who tend to rush in and implement features as rapidly as possible sakrificing maintainability and design for speed and low cost of development.

      Just my two (Euro) Cents.
      --
      Only to idiots, are orders laws.
      -- Henning von Tresckow
  14. Eclipse logo everywhere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's funny to see that Eclipse logo everywhere on the slides (I've read TFSlides): I'm a happy customer (not employee) of JetBrains. I bought IntelliJ IDEA which kicks the crap out of Eclipse.

    It's interesting to realize that while Eclipse is clearly not a bad IDE, there are still people paying $250 to $500 to buy commercial IDEs. And it's not because they don't know better, it is because they do know better.

    So apparently there's still some room for commercial software vendors afterall ;)

    But it seems true that in the long term for quite a lot of software (including the operating systems), you can't beat commoditization. Which is why companies making nearly all their revenues on software that everybody is using (eg OS and an Office suite) are very afraid of the future.

    On the other hand companies producing outstanding commercial software running on multi-million piece of hardware (think about the servers processing real money) still have some time before they get "sucked" by beige PCs running OSS.

    And then some companies switch from "making money on software" to "making money on services" and injecting lots of dollar into OSS R&D (IBM anyone?) and it seems to work very well. Somehow I don't see MS pulling that "services" trick ;)

    1. Re:Eclipse logo everywhere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could the Eclipse logo be on every page because he gave his presentation at EclipseCon last week, and he used the template they wanted him to? Hate to run counter to the spirit of slashdot by dashing a good conspiracy theory, but the simpler explanation might suffice pretty well.

  15. OSS really contributes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you want to see the contributions OSS has made to the world, look no further than computer games. I mean, we have highly successful OSS games like, um... er... hmm. Well, there are those OSS MMOGs, like... er... damn. Ok, that one great RPG... it was called... uuuuhhhhhh, aaaahhh... hmmm.

    Nevermind. I'm going to go boot up my Lunix boxen and play one of those great Text Editor games!

  16. Hey Microsoft ! Are You Listening? by argoff · · Score: 0

    The information age is doing for information services exactly what the industrial revolution did for production.

    However in this analogy Microsoft is like the plantation masters who thought that the industrial revolution was all about leveraging inventions like the cotton gin to expand their plantations for unlimited growth and profit.

    Back then they relied on a false property construct, slavery, to impose this vision while stupidly missing out on the entire industrial revolution.

    Today Microsoft relies on a false property construct, copyrights (and DRM), to impose their vision while stupidly missing out on the entire information age.

    Hey Microsoft !

    Why don't you minimize the damage now by killing your license system, killing DRM, back off the patent BS, go open source, become truely sincere with Linux, and use the power of your brand name to cary on from there. The adjustment will probably hurt like hell, but it will be the only thing that saves your butt in the long run.

  17. Oh this is a riot! by sheldon · · Score: 1

    I love his chart showing the price increase of Actuate(ACTU) showing the wonderful world of Open Source. Claiming it's risen in value 200% in the last two years. Then claiming the rest of the industry has only averaged 50% gain.

    He doesn't mention that ACTU is nowhere near it's 2000 bubble price.

    he also doesn't tell us which players he's averaging together. The two largest players in BI are Hyperion and Microsoft. Hyperion's stock has gone up at a rate faster than Actuate, but more importantly they're back at their bubble high, around 52 bucks a share.

    Compared to Actuate's $5.

    This whole thing is like reading a press release from George Bush on how wonderful the Iraq war is going because the schools all have fresh coats of paint.

    1. Re:Oh this is a riot! by BrentWilliams · · Score: 1

      1. The stocks compared were pure play business intelligence vendors: BOBJ, COGN, HYSL, INFA, SPSS, on an equal weighted basis. I excluded MSTR because their small share count plays hob with their trading patterns. I excluded Microsoft because it is not a pure play in business intelligence, and they often consider Excel to be a business intelligence tool, which most business intelligence experts wouldn't necessarily agree with, and which distorts their market share. Also, BOBJ drives considerably more revenue than Hyperion. 2. Few tech stocks are anywhere near their bubble highs today. And since none of the business intelligence vendors was even thinking about open source in the bubble era, why would it possibly be relevant to talk about how Actuate is trading today relative to its bubble-era price 7 or 8 years ago if the point is to show what happened after somebody started to execute on their open source strategy in 2005? So the time frame I used is relevant and hardly misleading. The only time you would want to look at how Actuate's current price compares to the bubble era is to compute your return if you bought the stock at its all time high and still own it today. Don't accuse me of using an inappropriate time frame to look at stocks -- what you suggest is irrelevant to the point of being silly, and no professional money manager would look at the situation in terms of today's price versus the all time high back in the bubble days.

    2. Re:Oh this is a riot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brent is correct. In the case of ACTU, the new strategy should be the starting point for examing impact of the strategy on the stock.

      One topic Brent did not include in these slides is a crazy Wall Street conudrum that many Wall Street analysts do not understand or appreciate, and goes over the head of all you geeks but here it is: The accounting rules for software end up causing an enterprise software company to typically loose money on each sale. What is missing from MOST Wall Street analysis is that the companies make it up (the profit) by charging on-going-maintenance fees (particually upgrade rights). The funny thing is that license sales used to predict maintenance sales but that has flip-flopped. Today an enterprise software company that shows growing maintenance (faster than license) is indicating that customers are happy with the product (or just stuck) and will eventually buy more - that is a tendency that is not well understood - shockingly.

      What does this have to do with Opensource software? The most critical differention in the financials of opensource vs enterprise is much, much lower cost of sales. It is not uncommon for new software companies with a license model to spend 100-150% of revenue on sales and marketing. R&D, once a product is close to selling, is typically 20% or lower. Again typically. The thing opensource consumers, enterprise-class, need to get used to is the FREE support and visits from pre-sales engineers will be missing in opensource, for the most part.

  18. It's a service business by randolph · · Score: 1

    Google can provide a more valuable service than Red Hat because there is much more money in mass advertising than there is in providing software support and consulting, even for critical OS components. Businesses make money using FOSS by providing the software as an adjunct to services; if the services are good enough, then the business makes money. It's a competitive market but, on the other hand, the customer relationships established are often durable; while Oracle may eventually take over Red Hat's service market, it's going to take a long time.

  19. Re:Well he makes a lot of errors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "if you want to build a road faster you just have more people working at it, "

    Not true. There are plenty of roads that no increase in manpower will make work. This can be due to engineer flaws, political pressure, or a variety of other causes. Let me point you to devils slide in San Mateo County.