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Strange Bedfellows Fight Ethanol Subsidies

Reader Actual Reality sends us to Business Week for a tale of the strangest political coalition to be seen in a while — greens, hippies, libertarians, and livestock producers uniting to get ethanol subsidies reduced or killed. The demand for the alternative fuel is driving up corn prices and having big impacts on other parts of the economy. Not many other issues are capable of getting left-leaning economist Paul Krugman and the Cato Institute on the same side.

12 of 552 comments (clear)

  1. Business advice by 91degrees · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But he worries that they'll face mounting pressures in the industry, particularly because of the soaring price for corn, which the business depends on to feed the livestock. In the past year, corn prices have doubled as demand from ethanol producers has surged.

    Start growing corn then.

    1. Re:Business advice by TykeClone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Cattle do just fine with distillers grains - the leavings after ethanol is made. Hogs and poultry don't - they like corn.

      I think that we may see a shift in the production of livestock in the United States. Much of the existing beef production takes place outside of Iowa, while much of the ethanol production takes place within the state. Iowa is also a major producer of pork - I expect that many of those operations will switch to feeding out cattle instead of hogs - especially if they can get distillers grains at a decent price compared to the corn that hogs require.

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
  2. Lobbies not environment by edwardpickman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This was never about reducing oil dependence it was about subsidizing one of the most powerful lobbies the corn lobby. Corn alcohol requires large amounts of energy to produce so it actually increases the use of coal and oil. The current administration is also fanatical about hydrogen because most hydrogen is produced from fossil sources. Yes it can be produced by electrolysis from wind or solar but it won't be. It's like "clean coal". Yes coal can be burned more cleanly and the CO2 sequestered but there isn't a single clean coal plant in operation. There are better sources for alcohol but they lack powerful lobbies.

  3. Allow me to explain by kahei · · Score: 4, Insightful


    Nobody is trying to end fossil-fuel dependence here. Nobody is subsidising ethanol production, except in a rather technical sense. If people wanted to end fossil-fuel dependenence and make ethanol production easier, they could fund, subsidize, and promote any number of solutions.

    What IS going on here is another huge subsidy for the very powerful corn industry. This particular subsidy is wearing a paper hat that says 'ethanol', which is enough to fool:

    0% of people who know anything about energy markets.
    25% of lawmakers
    95% of the public
    100% of all the libertarian slashdotters who have already jumped in and gone 'OMG teh socialism sux lol!!'

    Now, repeat after me: ETHANOL is one thing, ETHANOL FROM NORTH AMERICAN CORN is another thing. You want energy, subsidize the former. You want money for corn growers, subsidize the latter.

    --
    Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
    1. Re:Allow me to explain by CapsaicinBoy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Now, repeat after me: ETHANOL is one thing, ETHANOL FROM NORTH AMERICAN CORN is another thing. You want energy, subsidize the former. You want money for corn growers, subsidize the latter.

      Quoted for truth.

      This is why a petroleum tax is the way to go. Government sucks at picking the winning technologies whereas markets are quite good at it. The solution? Ditch technology specific subsidies in favor of technology agnostic user fees that incentivize the desired goal, namely reduced petro use.

      Now most people don't like taxes, but really it is the fairest way to let the market select the best renewable technology. If you tax petroleum, then biodiesel, ethanol, wind/pv plug-in HEVs, and transit all compete via market forces.

      And before the libertarians get their panties in a bunch, we don't have anything close to a free market currently. The market is, and has been, slanted toward petroleum via foreign, domestic and tax policy for the the last 50-75 years. I'm just suggesting we use a petroleum tax to level the field a little.

  4. Let's not use alternative fuel... by endersshadow7 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...just because it's alternative. Ethanol has the only advantages that it's not oil and that it's renewable. Environmentally and financially it's foolish, as a previous poster pointed out. But one shouldn't be all that surprised to find us Libertarians aligned with anybody. It's the Party of Principle for a reason: Libertarians do their best to stay out of partisan politics and make public policy about what's actually best (gasp!).

    In this case, Libertarians are against any and all forms of government subsidies, and it's rather obvious why if we're absolutely pro-free market. Nobody should read this article and say, "Wow, that's surprising that they're working together!" Rather, they should read it and really wonder why these different groups oppose subsidies for ethanol and whether or not ethanol is a viable choice for an alternative fuel.

    After all, alternative != better.

  5. Re:Libertarian speaking here by dylan_- · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why not lobby to drop all farm subsidies, not just the ones for ethanol?
    Because food is cheaper to import than produce locally so all the farms would go out of business. And you don't want to depend on other, potentially unstable, countries for food.
    --
    Igor Presnyakov stole my hat
  6. Re:Libertarian speaking here by rlp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And you don't want to depend on other, potentially unstable, countries for food.

    Or energy

    --
    [Insert pithy quote here]
  7. Deceptive disagreement by swb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While I occasionally enjoy Krugman's columns, it's only window dressing that Krugman and the Cato institute are on opposite sides. They really represent a duopoly of opinion that relies on "the other side" to give "their side" some sort of validity.

    Periodic ideological alignment is necessary to demonstrate that both "sides" are willing to engage in creative problem solving and aren't just part of an ideological game.

  8. Don't forget the water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Irrigation water and water for production of the ethanol is soon to be in short supply in many of these regions (of the US). Many of them teeter on the edge of drought every year, and the aquifers, stable for many years, are being depleted at a rapid rate once the stills (ethanol plants) are built.

    This is on top of the propane used to make the fertilizer (corn is very hard on the soil), the natural gas to cook the mash, the electricity to turn the big drums, the diesel to run the tractors and combines, the diesel or gas to truck the corn to the still and transport (by train usually) the ethanol to (close to) the point of sale (it has to be mixed in locally, not at the refinery).

    All in all, it makes slightly more sense than just paying the farmer not to grow the corn. It makes no sense whatsoever compared to bio-diesel (beans fix nitrogen), ethanol from sugar cane, or even burning through the cheap gas now while bringing more nuclear on line.

  9. Re:Libertarian speaking here by Rostin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If they ever dried up we could always go back to growing our own food.

    What an idiotic thing to say.

    I grew up on a farm. My dad used to joke that "city people" think that food magically appears in the grocery store. I never realized how close to the truth that statement might be until I read your post and saw that it was modded up as insightful.

  10. Corn's not good for cows by wytcld · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Cows don't digest corn well - not too surprising since it was never a part of their ancestors' natural diet. They digest it so poorly that they become prone to all sorts of intestinal diseases. The only way to feed cows corn and not have them sicken is to add large amounts of antibiotics to the feed to hold down the diseases that digesting corn makes them prone to. This leads to widespread antibiotic resistance that makes many diseases harder to treat in human beings.

    As for human beings, the older among us can recall how much better food tasted when it was all sweetened with sugar rather than corn syrup. There are some pretty strong concerns about corn syrup not being so healthy for you either - although it's probably not as bad for us as corn is for cows.

    Ethanol is a boondoggle, and I'll prefer any presidential candidate who stands firmly against subsidizing it. But corn too is subsidized - has been for decades - and that leads to it being used in other ways that are already seriously screwing things up. Plus, agriculture is not infinitely renewable, not the way we practice it. The US has lost something like half its agricultural topsoil, on average, over the last century or so. Long-term viability requires us to take more agricultural land out of production, rather than exploit our land more extensively for short-term gain. Over the long run, in many locations, agriculture is just another form of strip mining - at least until we develop technologies we don't currently have to replace millions of tons of topsoil that current practices have allowed to be washed away and otherwise depleted. Soil is more precious than oil.

    There's no easy fix here. And corn shouldn't even be a candidate.

    --
    "with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton