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Gran Paradiso Alpha 3

kbrosnan writes "Gran Paradiso Alpha 3 is a release of the Gecko rendering engine for testing purposes only. Here are the release notes. While this release uses the interface of Firefox, no significant interface changes have been made. These alpha releases focus on making improvements to the core elements: graphics, JavaScript, page rendering, etc."

36 of 187 comments (clear)

  1. Changes. by Seumas · · Score: 3, Funny

    no significant interface changes have been made. These alpha releases focus on making improvements to the core elements: graphics, JavaScript, page rendering, etc." In other words, there have been no changes to anything that MSIE users care about, like 3d buttons, blocky, chunky, weird, chunky tabs and nifty "click" noises every time you click something, load something, go back a page, go forward a page, scroll down a page, select something, delete something, type something, submit something or refresh something?
    1. Re:Changes. by NekoXP · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Aww but I love the click in IE. Sometimes when I click in Firefox I wonder if it's actually DOING anything.. it does seem to sit there and churn a lot in the background. When I click in IE and it's locked up because of some dumb flash anim and not responding to my button press, it doesn't make any sound.

      The click makes it very clear when the browser is sucking ass, and when it is not :)

    2. Re:Changes. by gerrysteele · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Perhaps someday soon they might invent some innovative technology to update you of these events.

      I would call it "The Status Bar".

  2. Release notes and comments by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 5, Informative

    * Animated PNG (APNG) images are now supported.
    * The DOM clientLeft and clientTop attributes are now supported.
    * Introduced support for , which puts resources into the browser's offline cache. This allows a web application to ensure that its resources are available in the cache when the browser goes into offline mode. See * * * Marking Resources for Offline Use for further details on offline support.
    * Improved precision of layout and scaling across a wide range of screen and printer resolutions.
    * Implemented cycle collection in XPCOM, which detects cases where two released objects hold one another, but neither is held by anyone else. In this scenario, both objects can safely be purged. Previously, the holds each has on the other would have prevented them from being purged.
    * Added support for the HttpOnly cookie attribute, which marks a cookie as readable only by the server and not by client-side scripts.
    * Added a new preference, "Warn me when web sites try to redirect or reload the page", which notifies the user when the page specifies HTTP-EQUIV=refresh.
    * Windows 95, Windows NT 4, Windows 98, and Windows ME are not supported for Gecko 1.9.
    * OS X 10.2 is no longer supported, and OS X 10.3.9 or better is required.
    * The non-standard JavaScript Script object is no longer supported.
    * Moving DOM nodes between documents now requires a call to importNode or adoptNode as per the DOM specification.


    It's kind of sketchy that they're not supporting older Windows or OS X versions, but I don't think that's a huge deal. I wish they'd reintroduced MNG instead of APNG (purely a personal preference; APNG is probably actually a better way of doing it), and any fixes to JavaScript are nice to have.

    --
    "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    1. Re:Release notes and comments by mhall119 · · Score: 5, Informative

      It doesn't support older Windows because it uses Cairo for faster rendering, which I've read doesn't support older Windows versions. I'm not sure if it's the same reason older versions of OS X are not supported.

      --
      http://www.mhall119.com
    2. Re:Release notes and comments by neongrau · · Score: 2, Interesting

      i remember ppl saying the same about windows 98SE when w2k was released.
      ppl like you prefer the eye-candyless w2k.
      and i now hear ppl saying it about XP since vista is out (including me).
      and i'm pretty sure ppl will say the same about vista once the successor is released.

      so like someone earlier posted:
      it's ok to live in the past

      (for a while at least)
      we don't want to come to a total halt in technology

    3. Re:Release notes and comments by shawn443 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't remember 2K bothering me quite as much as XP. Everytime I see that balloon telling me I have unused desktop icons I get mad. Eye candy is useless to me unless it enhances my work. Otherwise, give me TWM. That said, I am sitting down with a Vista Home Super Duper Bee's Knees Fucking Ultimate cd coupled with a Barnes and Noble style training session sometime this week. I am sure I am going to be mad.

    4. Re:Release notes and comments by CRCulver · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is the common usage pattern. Uptime on desktop or notebook computers is generally low, and so Joe Average is not too likely to keep Firefox open for days or weeks and notice problematic memory usage. However, Joe Average would certainly notice sluggishness in the workings of the Back button.

    5. Re:Release notes and comments by bunratty · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Just to make my vague, general statements concrete, I picked three sites at random, each of which uses a different plugin:
      The official US time clock (Java)
      weatcher.com interactive map (Flash)
      Panda Pang (Shockwave for Director)

      With these three pages open Firefox 2.0.0.3 on Windows XP has a VM Size of 175 MB. Huge memory problem in Firefox? No, Opera 9.10 on Windows XP has a VM Size of 171 MB. After closing the tabs in Firefox, VM Size goes down to 46 MB. Doing the same in Opera, VM Size goes down to 59 MB. If anything, it looks like Opera may have a problem releasing unused memory. Keep in mind for a fair comparison that you must open only those sites after starting the browser, otherwise, you could see the built-up memory usage form hours or days of use in a browser that you've been visiting other pages in.

      If you can come up with a series of steps that causes high memory usage in Firefox, and not high memory usage in other browsers, maybe you're on to something.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    6. Re:Release notes and comments by atamido · · Score: 3, Informative

      Cairo is not a speed demon, but it has been getting noticeably faster with ever release that they've made. It may be slower than what Firefox is currently using, but it's also a lot more useful. Their current Gecko rendering engine doesn't have the capability to do the things that they want to do, without a significant rewrite. So in this sense Cairo will add a ton of ability, fix a lot of memory leaks, and probably be at least as fast in a few releases. They will also gain time from all of the developers working on the current engine to have them work to improve some other part of Firefox.

    7. Re:Release notes and comments by mhall119 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Right, I think Cairo is being used specifically because it would allow Firefox to finally add features like full page zoom (no just text resizing) that has been available in other browsers for a while now. It should also improve page printing.

      --
      http://www.mhall119.com
  3. Not a gecko release by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's an alpha release of Firefox 3, it uses the Gecko 1.9 engine.

  4. ACID 2 Compliance by nahdude812 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yes, it does completely pass the Acid 2 CSS compliance test.

    1. Re:ACID 2 Compliance by jesser · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's ok if the nose is a pixel offset from the reference-rendering position. IIRC, it depends on the order in which borders are drawn, which isn't specified by CSS. It's even ok, and considered ideal by some, if the nose is anti-aliased to be "half a pixel offset" from the reference-rendering position.

      --
      The shareholder is always right.
  5. Re:That felt weird by Seumas · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just to be ironic I do not think that word means what you think that it means.
  6. Why should it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I consider it a feature if a browser prevents people from visiting MySpace.

    1. Re:Why should it? by pipatron · · Score: 5, Funny

      I knew the MySpace-crowd were young, but 5 months, wtf?

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
  7. What? by mboverload · · Score: 4, Funny

    WTF? Where did the cars go?

  8. Re:redraws involve headache-inducing white flashes by Seumas · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's a feature, dude. The white screen in between page loads is where the government flashes the subliminal commands, instructing you to consume, worship and be content.

  9. Re:That felt weird by ProfessionalCookie · · Score: 2, Funny

    Don't worry...he's just been hanging out with Alanis Morsette. On second thought, worry.

  10. Re:So.. by Jeffrey+Baker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If they "fixed" this "leak", the other bunch of fucknozzles would come back asking "Why are back and forward so slow?!??". I think for the time being you people are slightly less annoying, so the "leak" stays.

  11. Re:Release schedule? by dvice_null · · Score: 2, Informative

    Firefox 3 is planned to be released on November: http://wiki.mozilla.org/ReleaseRoadmap
    Wikipedia quotes the same source.

  12. Re:redraws involve headache-inducing white flashes by Anc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The new theme for FF3 will look even less like OS X apps, and will continue to have ugly Windows 95-ish form controls. Actually, they'll be switching to Windows 3.1-ish controls.
    Quite the opposite. One of the already implemented changes that will make it to Fx3 is enabling native Cocoa widgets.
  13. Re:Run both firefox and Gran Paradiso ? by obender · · Score: 2, Informative

    Is there a way to run both firefox and Paradiso without affecting firefox settings and extensions etc ? Unzip firefox in a separate directory, for example c:\beta\firefox, make an extra directory for profiles and start firefox with the -profile option:

    set MOZ_NO_REMOTE=1
    c:\beta\firefox\firefox.exe -profile c:\beta\profile
    The MOZ_NO_REMOTE variable will prevent it from connecting to another running instance of Firefox. All the settings are stored in the profile directory so it will leave the regular installation alone.
  14. Bug! by Zarel · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I had a feeling the rendering engine improvements would break something. The Quick Contacts list of GMail with Chat has a huge space on the bottom that increases each time you hover over a user. I wonder if it's a rendering engine bug or a GMail bug.

    --
    Want a high quality FOSS RTS game? Try Warzone 2100!
    1. Re:Bug! by Nasarius · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So file it if it's not there already. That's what the alpha is for.

      --
      LOAD "SIG",8,1
    2. Re:Bug! by kbrosnan · · Score: 2, Informative

      It is https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36349 6 - "gmail talk, onclick textarea creates new space in contacts list"

      --
      These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based upon the order I joined. -Homer Simpson
  15. Re:So.. by jesser · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's possible to turn off the back-forward cache by setting browser.sessionhistory.max_viewers to 0 in about:config. That said, for some users, Firefox uses a lot of memory due to actual leaks rather than this kind of caching.

    --
    The shareholder is always right.
  16. Mac users, give it a try! by chrysalis · · Score: 3, Interesting

    For OSX users, Gran Paradiso is a huge improvement over previous Firefox versions. It's way faster, and it feels as fast as Safari. While there are still some bugs especially with forms, this is definitely something OSX users should try.

    --
    {{.sig}}
  17. New word! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Fucknozzles! That's a new one. I suppose if you've already got an asshat, you need some matching fucknozzles to go with it.

  18. Even Mozilla guys ignore non-x86 Linux by cyba · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's only single "Linux" download link that refers to Linux/x86 binary. If leading Free Software project doesn't treat non-x86 platforms seriously, how can we expect something different from e.g. hardware manufacturers?

  19. Re:So.. by Man+of+E · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Other browsers have shown (Opera, Safari) that it's possible to have speedy back and forward buttons without taking up a gig of memory. You can claim that the Firefox back-forward code is so poorly written that it would have to be redone from the ground up, and that the developers consider a new spellchecker to be higher-priority than a time-consuming rewrite of this memory-hogging component. But please don't pretend that this is an intrinsic trade-off in browser design.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une sig
  20. about:config by SavvyPlayer · · Score: 2, Informative

    browser.cache.memory.enable

  21. Re:Strange OSX behaviour by Bazzargh · · Score: 2, Informative

    *Holds up hand*

    my fault, assuming you are using an alpha or nightly build. There are still a bunch of font bugs in cairo, in particular when the text is scaled. Most of those were fixed in cairo 1.4.2, they should land in the mozilla soonish, and hopefully the next release will look a lot better. Mac fonts on cairo trunk are now pretty much up to par with the other platforms, and Robert O'Callahan, Vlad, etc have done great stuff making it all perform well too.

    -Baz (maintaining mac font stuff in cairo)

  22. Re:redraws involve headache-inducing white flashes by jesser · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yeah. For a solid percentage of the 6-digit numbers, Google will give you a Debian bug report, a Gnome bug report, or a Mozilla bug report.

    --
    The shareholder is always right.
  23. Re:So.. by bunratty · · Score: 4, Informative

    Nice rant, but Firefox does not seem to use more memory than other browsers. See my above posts and the following links:
    Radically New IE 7 or Updated Mozilla Firefox 2--Which Browser Is Better?
    IE 7 vs IE 6
    Firefox 2 - the lean, mean browser

    If you can give a set of steps that causes Firefox to use "up to a gig of memory" and does not cause other browsers to use nearly as much memory, let's have it. Then whatever problem you're seeing can be reported and fixed.

    --
    What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.