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Private File Sharing To Remain/Become legal In EU

orzetto writes "Italian newspapers are reporting that the European parliament's Commitee for Legal Affairs approved an amendment presented by EMP Nicola Zingaretti (PSE, IT), that makes piracy a felony—but only if a monetary profit is made. As in the EU parliament's press release: 'Members of the Legal Affairs' committee [...] decided that criminal sanctions should only apply to those infringements deliberately carried out to obtain a commercial advantage. Piracy committed by private users for personal, non-profit purposes are therefore also excluded.' The complete proposal was passed with 23 votes in favour, 3 against and 3 abstained, and is intended to be applied to copyright, trademark, design and other IP fields, but not patent right which is explicitly excluded. The proposal has still to pass the vote of the parliament before becoming law in all EU countries, some of which (like Italy) do have criminal laws in place for non-profit file sharing. A note: Most EU countries use civil law, not common law. Translation of legal terms may be misleading."

26 of 147 comments (clear)

  1. Like U.S. Copyright used to be? by mjmalone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's funny because this is how copyright law was generally interpreted in the United States prior to the Napster era. The first criteria (of four) that is used to determine whether something is "fair use" is related to whether the use is "of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes." Today fair use in the U.S. is interpreted so narrowly that might as well be non-existent. What's doubly weird is that the EU is typically more protective of IP than the United States is. It will be interesting to see what happens if this amendment is passed by parliament.

    1. Re:Like U.S. Copyright used to be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, the situation is now fundamentally different. It used to be that one person copying a tape for a bunch of friends was no big deal. Even if it was a CD that reproduced almost perfectly with data verification it wouldn't likely get that far from the original buyer. Nowadays it's to the point where one person on earth could buy a CD and then that album could be downloaded by every person with a computer in a matter of hours or days given the right sharing service. (Torrents)

    2. Re:Like U.S. Copyright used to be? by mjmalone · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, and that's a problem, but the alternative doesn't have to be so severe either. Why, for example, do I have to pay Verizon $5 to download a ringtone for my cell phone when I already own the damned CD. The ringtone industry (which is a multi-BILLION dollar industry) is the perfect example of how content owners are trying to turn the U.S. into a pay-per-use economy. There has to be a middle ground here...

    3. Re:Like U.S. Copyright used to be? by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nowadays it's to the point where one person on earth could buy a CD and then that album could be downloaded by every person with a computer in a matter of hours or days given the right sharing service. (Torrents)


            Yes, we've been at that point for a while now. And yet I see there's no shortage of wealthy artists... even if their music sucks.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    4. Re:Like U.S. Copyright used to be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But you don't have to. You can just not have the ringtone. Trust me, my cellphone just does something like "gonk gonk gonk" when someone calls me, and I'm doing just fine.

      Blaming copyright because you bought a locked phone and a rip protected CD (which I assume to be the case, otherwise you'd just load the ringtone like a normal person) kind of misplaced blame a bit.

    5. Re:Like U.S. Copyright used to be? by EmperorKagato · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually you don't.

      Verizon charges you for the Service of providing you to download the ringtone. If you have the CD you can upload it http://www.mixxer.com/ and download it to your phone for free.

      I'm not sure about Verizon yet I'm able to do with Sprint

      --
      ----- You know you have ego issues when you register a domain in your name.
    6. Re:Like U.S. Copyright used to be? by pipatron · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The exact amount of lost sales is up for debate, and it's certainly less than 100% of the number of copies downloaded for free, but it's certainly greater than zero.

      Funny you should say that, because people spend more money on culture today than they did just 5 years ago. How is that? CD sales are dropping like a stone, yet people spend more money. See, the problem as that the money stream now bypass the record companies, and naturally they don't like that. Of course they want us to believe that the poor artists will starve now, but I find that a bit strange, for more than one reason.

      One is that even before everyone got internet and started to share their files, they got a ridiculously small share of each record sold. If the record companies worry about the artists, they could try to cut costs and streamline their business while still making the records cheap enough so people buy them.

      The other is that, as I said, people spend more money on culture. If that money does not go to the artists, then it's not the fault of the consumers, but the fault of the music industry.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    7. Re:Like U.S. Copyright used to be? by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It often happens that great artists are 'ahead of their time'. I think this often keeps them from being particularly successful in a business sense as not many people are willing to pay them while they are alive. Edward Stiechen had a decent career teaching and such, but no one paid $3 million for any of his photographs until after he died.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    8. Re:Like U.S. Copyright used to be? by jfengel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Thing is, the artists have always been willing to sell out. I can't speak to recording artists, but I know actors; I am a professional actor myself. (Stage, not screen, and regional rather than national; you've never heard of me.) Half the questions I get asked are "How do I get famous?" Few people have any interest in how to get better, and they'd sign any contract you put in front of them if it put their faces on the screen.

      So it doesn't bother me that the artists get squat out of the deal. They got famous and that's what they wanted from the labels. If all they wanted to do was make music, they're welcome to crank it out in their home studio and sell it out of the back of a van, just like my musician friends do.

      Those guys don't have any music industry to blame their lack of sales on. They sell to what customers they can reach, but without a music industry to promote them, their reach is limited. And I haven't seen the customers going too far out of their way to buy the music from CDBaby or eMusic for bands they've never heard of.

      I think that there's plenty of blame to go around.

    9. Re:Like U.S. Copyright used to be? by Tackhead · · Score: 2, Insightful
      > Well, the situation is now fundamentally different. It used to be that one person copying a tape for a bunch of friends was no big deal. Even if it was a CD that reproduced almost perfectly with data verification it wouldn't likely get that far from the original buyer. Nowadays it's to the point where one person on earth could buy a CD and then that album could be downloaded by every person with a computer in a matter of hours or days given the right sharing service.

      So? As you correctly point out: the situation is now fundamentally different.

      "There has grown in the minds of certain groups in this country the idea that just because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with guaranteeing such a profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary to public interest. This strange doctrine is supported by neither statute or common law. Neither corporations or individuals have the right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped, or turned back."
      - Heinlein, Life Line, 1939.

      Maybe the right thing is for P2P to be banned. But maybe the right thing is for the content (movies, music, and yes, even software) industry to come up with a business model based on something other than the artificial scarcity imposed by the production costs of selling shiny plastic discs.

      Buggy-whip manufacturers probably said the same thing when Henry Ford came out with the automobile. Meanwhile, some guy whose business was making wheels for horse-drawn carriages decided to make stronger wheels that could be bolted onto automobiles.

    10. Re:Like U.S. Copyright used to be? by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Interesting

      OK, to use your very example. I have never heard of "The Roche Sisters" (and it's unlikely that many others here have).

            Therefore it's unlikely I would seek and download their music. Therefore piracy is not the cause of their lack of wealth, is it?

            In fact if you were to, say, send me a link where I could download some of their stuff, and I liked it, chances are good that I would probably buy one of their CD's. Repeat a million times with the power of the internet, and suddenly the "RIAA" and the gangsters they represent are made fairly obsolete - especially if I can buy the CD direct from the band.

            This is exactly what they are afraid of, and the reason they are grasping at the final straws before disappearing down the hall into oblivion.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  2. Re:Seems sensible. by mjmalone · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Oftentimes they gain a sale. Because you now know their software you're more likely to purchase it in the future (assuming it works...) That's the reason these companies give huge student discounts, and is also the reason why a "leaky" copyright system typically works the best for everybody.

  3. Still liable for damages in civil suit? by pavon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The summary and article aren't clear on this. Will people who distribute files still be liable for damages if found to be infringing upon copyrights in a civil lawsuit? If so, I don't think that it is accurate to call private file sharing legal, it just isn't criminal.

    1. Re:Still liable for damages in civil suit? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 4, Informative

      From what it looks like and if the laws are at least similar, the civil side of copyright is still in full enforcement. This is just criminalizing for profit pirate centers.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
  4. Wow - score one for the good guys - "thats us" by unity100 · · Score: 2

    And us being "the people".

  5. To Remain/Become legal? by kripkenstein · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not how I understood TFA, but of course IANAL.

    What I got from it was that a new directive, aimed at harsher Europe-wide criminal punishments for piracy, will be applied only to commercial piracy. Noncommercial piracy is not covered by the new directive. However, if it was illegal in a member state before, then it remains so.

    Please correct me if I am wrong.

    1. Re:To Remain/Become legal? by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Informative

      Noncommercial piracy is not covered by the new directive.

      What you're describing has been known as "fair use" for a very long time.

      I don't know about European Copyright law, but here in Canada (and I believe the US), I've been explicitly allowed to make a copy of an album to give to a family member or a friend forever.

      It's only in the current climates that companies are trying to remove the fair use provisions in their entirety. Hence, "private, non-commercial piracy" is a misnomer -- it should remain "fair use still remains legal"; there's no piracy involved in something I already had the right to do.

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  6. No? by Dan+Stephans+II · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I read TFA, nowhere did I see that "private file sharing" would remain or become legal. What I did read is that the EU is attempting to harmonize the criminal code around commercial piracy. This harmonization could actually be _detrimental_ to private file sharing because it introduces an element of Napster to the member states (not that the article was hugely detailed but a site like Pirate Bay -- not in the EU, just an example -- could be considered profiting from copyright infringement and be prosecuted under something like this).

    Anyhow, nowhere in the article does it say private file sharing for non-commercial purposes will be legalized, it only addresses it by saying that it isn't addressing that aspect.

  7. Not legal! by Bogtha · · Score: 5, Informative

    They are criminalising commercial copyright infringement. Non-commercial copyright infringement is still illegal. This means that you get sued and pay damages instead of getting arrested and going to jail.

    --
    Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  8. But seriously. by vakuona · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Any bets on the definition of "monetary profit".

    monetary profit. 1. Spending less money than you earn.
                                      2. To avoid spending money by conducting illegal activity.

    I don't trust politicians.

  9. Civil law vs Common law by ssuchter · · Score: 2, Informative

    In case anyone else was interested but ignorant of the meaning of: Most EU countries use civil law, not common law. Translation of legal terms may be misleading., I read a few articles online. I think that this one was the most helpful:

    http://fountainoflaw.com/Vocab/commonlaw.html

    What I took away (apart from the very interesting history) was that common law expects/requires judges to consider past judges decisions, so the law is a combination of legislated statute and precedent. Civil law on the other hand focuses mostly/exclusively on legislated statue. (I'm sure I'm over-simplifying, so read the article yourself!)

  10. Actually, From What I Understand... by had3l · · Score: 3, Informative

    All this law does is make copyright infringement for commercial purposes a crime. Non-commercial copyright infringement isn't in it's scope.

    What that means is that, it is NOT saying that "if you pirate a CD for personal, non-profit use, you didn't commit a crime", what its saying is: "if you make a profit from it, you are DEFINITELY committing a crime, no matter what EU country you are in".

    If pirating something for personal use is a crime in your country, it probably will still be a crime after this law passes. And if it isn't a crime, this law doesn't prevent legislation that criminalizes it.

  11. Do not jump to conclusions! by Mjlner · · Score: 3, Informative

    First of all, this is a proposed EU directive, not "federal law", a concept that doesn't exist in the EU. A directive means that member countries should implement certain requirements in the directive or there may be sanctions. It also means that these requirements may be exceeded, at the discretion of the member countries' legislative bodies. Finland is one country which already implemented a much harsher copyright law than the EUCD required and it will be free to do so in the future. Private filesharing might be excluded from this directive, but that only means that the member countries are free to legislate as they are paid^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H as they like.

    --
    Lemon curry???
  12. The war between the users and the RIAA by CannonballHead · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The interesting thing is... it seems nobody really cares about the artists that AREN'T wealthy.

    I'm a classical musician. It's hard to make a living in music when you're purely musical, and not a celebrity figure like most "artists" these days tend to be.

    So, the interesting thing about this little feud, to me, is that none of it really deals with the artists themselves. It seems that the RIAA is now seen as Microsoft is often seen (whether or not that's a valid vision of it or not I leave up to your discretion)... we fight it purely out of principle.

    But does fighting the RIAA or opening up file sharing and making copyrights pretty much useless actually help the artists at all? I'm a composer... if there were no copyrights whatsoever, and if somebody malicious wanted to steal a work by me (presuming it was even good enough to be worth stolen, of course) and claim it as their own and make money off of it... well, it's rather nice to have laws in place to prevent that. OpenSource Composition doesn't work well. People don't often donate to composers. Copyrights are necessary in a world where people are perfectly happy with stealing other people's music and distributing it. Human nature is easily enticed to take something for free rather than pay for it.

    So, what is this whole war between "private" file sharing and the RIAA doing to help the artists, whom, presumably, we all want to protect?

    Because there ARE people that will steal other people's recordings and do all kinds of things with them; even among musicians, copying sheet music instead of buying it is pretty frequent (and illegal). Because, of course, we all know that all musicians and composers are as famous and rich as Spears or Shore.

  13. People still download obnoxious jingles? by flyingfsck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In civilized parts of the world, cell phones have vibrators.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  14. Complex Issue by andersh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Civil law on the other hand focuses mostly/exclusively on legislated statue.
    The problem is that Civil Law only describes in very general terms the legal systems of not only every European country (except England/UK) but most of the world.

    The difference between France and Germany are indeed many and significant - but that's only two out of 49 European countries. And then there's the rest of the world that inherited the system from their European colonial masters.

    To quote the website you referred to:

    Thus, in a civil law country such as Germany or France, a judge hearing a particular case does not look to the transcript or judicial opinion of a previous case to find the operable rule of law, but rather seeks out a relevant legislative or administrative statute to find the explicit text governing the point in question.
    This is in fact wrong and not the whole truth. Far too often the French system is seen as representative for all of Europe - which it is not. In fact European Community law is decided in line with previous verdicts - but with greater freedom of "interpretation" that can lead to new practices.
    However in each and every European country domestic law is still practised according to national traditions.