Do You Get a UNIX Workstation at Work?

Fished asks: "This may be a selfish question, but so far as I can tell it hasn't been asked before. I'm currently a Solaris System Engineer in a Very Large Company. This Very Large Company has predictably standardized on Windows as their corporate desktop. However, they are also of the opinion that nobody needs anything -but- Windows on their desktop. If you're a UNIX/Linux systems engineer/administrator in a large company, do they give you a desktop for the platform you manage? Do you have any tips on justifying your need for a second, UNIX-based desktop to the powers that be?" "While Windows may be a truth for most employees, as a System Engineer I find that my productivity is much lower when I am forced to use Windows on my desktop. I spend way too much time overcoming the ways in which Windows is just different from UNIX, and not enough time getting my job done. Loading Solaris X86 is not an option, since we are required to use a bunch of software that is Windows only (much of it sloppily written, IE only internal websites, with fun things like ActiveX controls.) VmWare works, but is certainly less than ideal."

Comments

Does Linux Count?

[bheer]

Google, HP, Oracle, Sun, IBM -- all use Linux desktops at work. But if IT is unwilling to make a special case and allow you a Linux desktop, just get PuTTY, run it full-screen, you won't even know you're on Windows. There are even some X emulators for Windows (Hummingbird?) but it's been a while since I used any and the command line is all you need anyway.

Re:Does Linux Count?

[rhythmx]

The parent is right, Hummingbird 's Exceed is definitely what you want. CygwinX is a joke IMHO for professional work, it crashes endlessly and the performance is horrible. Exceed has got good performance (even though it is Java, hehe), and a very thorough implementation of the X11 standard. It even has the GL extensions! It's expensive, but probably easier to requisition than a non-windows desktop.

For the whole package, you can kill explorer.exe in Windows, and set Exceed up to route "root mouse actions to X" and you can even fire up your favorite window manager. I used to run Fluxbox full screen over SSH from our development server all the time. So, in a way, I just made the dev server my Unix workstation.

Keep in mind that people in large companies would usually rather do things by the book than cater to the exception. Unless you are buddies with the CTO, it's not likely you're going to convince anyone to brush aside any long-standing policies.

Re:Does Linux Count?

[allenw]

Sun employees generally get Solaris as a desktop via SunRay. The folks who install Linux, in general, are a) working on cross-platform products and b) do it outside IT's support services.

Re:Does Linux Count?

[ElectricRook]

I work at a the worlds largest computer manufacturer. Of course all our design/validation happens in UNIX land. We have about 20K UNIX hosts at my site, and probably 100K worldwide.

At my site, except for about 30 UNIX hosts dedicated to running testers. All of our UNIX is in data centers. We all carry XP laptops for email, office tools, and browser. And of course it really sucks, as you would imagine, there are more admins for XP mail alone, than for all of UNIX land software.

The one upside we have, is that IT keeps a real loose rein on installing software, and lots of us use different browsers, and what ever OSS we want.

To get to UNIX land, you start a VNC server on a UNIX host in the pool set aside for that purpose, and VNC in from the laptop.

Once you get past the sucky slow XP, with weekly upgrade, reboot, bluescreen reboot, slower than shit... and into actual UNIX land, it's actually much better than having a UNIX workstation on the desk. The reason, is that you can pack up your laptop to dreary meetings, and quietly run your tester and get real work done whilst the drones drone on. Also, you can carry your laptop to the tester. What good is that you might ask? From there, you can prop your laptop on a chair, and fiddle with the contactor, and not have to spin around and scoot over to drive the tester from the host's keyboard/monitor that is probably inconveniently far away. Also you can cut/paste from the test program I/O to a email message to send to the designer... Granted if you were in pure UNIX land, you'd send the designer the path to the file. But with our config, the designer can come to the test floor, login to his environment and pull up the schematics to ponder. Plus if you need more horsepower, it's only another (pop xterm + ssh) away.

Having spent 5 years as a UNIX user, 5 more as a UNIX sysadmin, and back to user for the last 2 years, I know all the advantages and the limitations of both UNIX and MS-windows. I think we have the best of both worlds. Although MS windows cause me to expound "COMPUTERS REALLY SUCK" on a weekly basis. But my VNC sessions(s) are always there still running when I get past the MS part.

Re:Does Linux Count?

[jrj0001]

I work for a large global systems integrator as an information security analyst. Their workstation platform is MS Windows XP. When I joined the just company over 2 years ago, the first thig I did was to request permission from the COE/SOE management for my region (APAC) to use Linux as my desktop OS. I got rejected, laughably for security reasons pertaining to lack of centralised patch management for linux vulnerabilities. I was told I could apply to have a copy of MS Virtual PC installed if I could justify the need, and run linux in that. Instead, I informed my manager of my intentions (not willing to bend), shrunk the NTFS filesystem (with qt_parted no less) and installed Fedora Core 4 (the latest at the time, and my choice of distro). Since then:
- When word got around, I presented linux desktops to the regional system architects to describe how I use linux in a windows environment (leveraging samba, wine, PAM, CUPS, etc) and keep it COE/SOE compatible. (Admitedly they found it all interesting but it didn't get anywhere)
- I have deployed numerous linux based systems into production environments (especially around OpenVPN) and have saved my department a few hundered thousand in licencing costs for proprietary alternatives, whilst generating the same revenue in ongoing support as would a proprietary solution
- Among other things, I have been able to keep my linux skills sharp

All of the above stemmed from not being willing to diverge from my core skill and love in terms of my coice of computing environment.
If you are a Linux user, do your office a favour and just install it and use it at work. Install your Windows OS in Qemu and/or dual-boot if you need to, but you will be doing your self and your employer a favour by providing expertise in brilliant technology, providing alternative revenue opportunities, and keeping your own mind stimulated and free of the abstracted treat-people-as-monkeys world that Microsoft bases its OS designs on.

I guess I have to ask

[Sycraft-fu]

Why would you need it? Where I work we've got a ton of Solaris boxes, and they are a lot of the core servers (LDAP, DNS, e-mail, web, among others). Our Solaris admin is quite good, and a fairly hardcore UNIX type. Not a Windows fan by any stretch of the imagination. However, his laptop that he uses to manage everything is Windows. Why? Well because that gives him Windows when he needs it and it doesn't restrict him in any way. Between Teraterm and the ssh.com client I've never seen him have any problems. After all, it's UNIX sever administration. It's all done remote, and through a text window. He could probably use a C64 and do just fine other than being slowed by having only a single window at a time.

So you need to first come up with a good reason or reasons as to why a Windows desktop doesn't work for you. Not liking it isn't a good reason, there's plenty about work I don't like, but then they are paying me so I'll do what I'm told. If you can't come up with a good technical reason, then probably you really don't need one. Pride and/or personal preference aren't a good reason when it comes to a work environment.

Also, since they are standardised on Windows desktops, you presumably have Windows support people. Get them to maintain your desktop and don't worry about it.

Re:I guess I have to ask

[paeanblack]

So you need to first come up with a good reason or reasons as to why a Windows desktop doesn't work for you.

That's a very backwards approach to getting work done.

Let your users list the tools with which they work most effectively. Then you cross tools off the list if and only if you have a very good reason or reasons to not provide those tools.

"We provide Windows because we are a Windows shop" really is the tail wagging the dog.

Re:I guess I have to ask

[GreggBz]

Not liking it isn't a good reason, there's plenty about work I don't like,

I don't like it because it makes me less productive and I feel crippled when there is a fire to put out.

Don't take my awk and perl and even gedit and vi. I work as a Unix admin for a small ISP and the Linux on the desktop is invaluable.
For auditing e-mail directories, writing scripts to parse the output of a mysql script, using scp to bounce files all over the place, working with tarballs, wget to see what
a web page is really made of in an instant... making expect scripts for the few ancient internal Cisco things, snmptools to fetch all kinds of things
and use them in scripts. I could go on and on.. Ohh... and I use dig and whois all the time!

All in all, I am much more productive when I can do all these things quickly on the command line in 6 terminals at once rather then use Putty, WinSCP, Teraterm even Cygwin. I've tried this and I like Windows right. Just not for being a sysadmin.

but then they are paying me so I'll do what I'm told.

Well, it's funny, the corporation prohibits you from installing and using FREE software in an area where you really won't be affecting any one else.
It's not like they have to support it. I guess that would irk me. But still, you do have a point, you do what you are told and roll with the changes. I guess I'm just lucky.

Re:I guess I have to ask

[vogon jeltz]

If you connect to another computer remotely, it doesn't really matter whether your system is windows or *nix. Under *nix you use ssh, under win you use putty. For graphics you use Exceed or xming under win, xdmcp under *nix.
Lots of people don't know a VERY handy tool called "screen" ("man screen") which is available for most any *nix. You log onto a *nix box (be it via ssh or putty) and start screen. Screen allows you to easily open, and switch between as many shell instances you need/want. Check it out, it's great for remote administration!

Re:I guess I have to ask

[RevDobbs]

"We provide Windows because we are a Windows shop" really is the tail wagging the dog.

Phrased that way yes, to does seem like circular logic. But try asking why the are a windows shop... the phrase ends up looking more like "We provide one operating system because it allows us to standarize our support costs, personnel training, security procedures, and software licences".

Re:I guess I have to ask

[sarathmenon]

I am a linux/unix admin at work, and have a linux system, which I _will_ not trade for a windows system. The IT policy in our place is simple - support will be available if you load windows. If you are on *nix, and have a problem, then STFU. It works fine because as a linux power user, I certainly can manage my system.

And yes, having windows on the desktop != having a unix. You can't manage ssh keys and custom ssh configs as easily with ssh.com and securecrt as with openssh. There is nothing like bash or perl that ships standard with windows. Ever tried setting up X forwarding on windows for that occasional unix gui application? Ever had to keep custom scripts that login to various servers for routine tasks? Ever had to script an ssh authentication script that logs into the new server just setup and copies over your ssh keys, vimrc, bashrc etc? Ever had to deal with antivirus hogging your CPU and memory? The list can be endless, but it definitely helps as an admin to have the OS of your choice.

Re:I guess I have to ask

[zentigger]

I'm in a similar position to you. I am a UNIX sysadmin in a medium sized ISP. Daily duties include hacking scripts and I live in about 1/2 dozen ssh sessions at any given moment in time. We are stuck with the typical bullsh*t windows apps (about 4 of them) that are, unfortunately, a daily requirement.

My solution to this problem was to buy a macbook. I bought it myself, with my own money, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I have terminal at my fingertips--a full and proper shell. I run MS office (my boss is somewhat of an excel junkie and frequently distributes obscene spreadsheets to OO doesn't quite like--although I haven't tried for about 1 year) and any other windows apps, I either run via remote desktop to my "standard issue" POS windows box or I run in a parallels VM. (Parallels is frickin' awesome!)

I also invested in a cheap KVM switch, so when I'm at my desk I can jack in and save my backlight or flip up and run in dual-screen mode for added desktop realestate or, at the flip of a key I can drop over to my PC in the rare case that Remote desktop or Parallels don't cut it--I did some significant testing on a video conference platform for a while that required this.

And to top it all of I have a kick-a$$ laptop that I use personally as well.

Viable alternatives (requires admin access,)

[WetCat]

Install http://www.colinux.org/> or http://www.virtualbox.com/>

Administer yourself a new workstation

[Anonymous Coward]

You're in charge of them, make it happen and stop being a little girl about it.

Re:Administer yourself a new workstation

[QuantumG]

Werd. Too many people in this world ask, nah beg, for permission to do things where if they were to just do it, no-one would care.

Simple

[SharpFang]

Plug the keyboard and monitor into the company's mainframe and use it as your desktop :P

Test Box

[Chris Snook]

You don't need a "Workstation", you need a "Test Box". A workstation is an overpriced desktop used to make trouble. A test box is an inexpensive server used to prevent trouble. Aside from the label, they are identical, but it makes all the difference to the bureaucrats.

Odd

[WindBourne]

I am a *nix guy. But about 2-3 years ago, I was forced on a windows workstation (the last prior to that was a BRAND new OS called win95). I have tried Exceed and found it flaky and just so-so. OTH, I currently run cygwin and have NO intention of ever going back to hummingbird. Cygwin has been rock solid. Now there are times where it is SLOW. In addition, it has issues when I move the laptop to a docking station, move to monster monitor, start cygwin, then move back to the smaller res (it stops and waits). But the way around that is to run it in normal windows mode (which I will not do). My only complaints about cygwin is that things like link does not work correcly and the io speed SUX BIG TIME.

Dream on, slashdot

[amyhughes]

Perhaps it's the same Very Large Company that I recently left. The engineers currently have both a Windows PC for office apps and email and a Unix workstation (Sun or HP) for actual work, but the current mandate is that all engineering apps are to be ported. This year. Most legacy X apps will be done using that Hummingbird thingy.

What slashdotters don't seem to realize is you can't "just install such-n-such" or "ssh into such-n-such" or "boot from such-n-such" in a controlled corporate environment. If they say Windows, then it's Windows, and don't even think about installing something not in the standard load.

Say hello to Clippy.

Re:Dream on, slashdot

[walt-sjc]

Since you left, please tell us the name so we can all sell it short :-)

Time for a server upgrade

[slarrg]

Just upgrade the smallest Solaris machine. It's almost guaranteed that you can identify some box and reason to upgrade. Afterwards, move the old machine to your desk along with your Windows machine (for the Windows only needs) and use it. If you're lucky, there may already be an old Sun machine lying around that you can just take. In any case, asking for permission will only keep you running around in bureaucracy and it'll never happen but once a machine is on your desk and you're using it everyone will pretty much leave it alone if you just STFU about it.

Hard to Believe

[ReidMaynard]

I too am a mild mannered *NIX Engineer at a huge multinational. It's easy to baffle IT into coughing up a spare PC, then throw linux on it. Now I have a Corporate approved XP PC, and my Linux box. I can't remember a single shop where something like this hasn't worked work.

Re:heh...

[baldass_newbie]

I'm reading the GP and I'm wondering if JtS has seen it and WHAM, there's your reply.
Weren't you collecting these keyboards? I know you did a JE about them.

UNIX desktops

[Simon Garlick]

All the alpha geeks at my workplace run UNIX workstations.

We all have Macs.

Re:Do you need a Unix machine?

[dhasenan]

He's a Solaris developer. The software he wants is Solaris, as closely configured to his servers as possible. The servers are 64-bit SPARC machines? He needs to develop on a 64-bit SPARC machine. They're using Solaris 9.2? He wants Solaris 9.2.

Yes, he could use ssh for all that, but in most cases, it is much more convenient to work locally than remotely.

At my job, I do C# development. I could use Mono on Linux for that, and I would prefer to have a solid OS like Linux, but it's being deployed on Windows. Therefore I use Windows to develop it. It's a matter of using the appropriate tools for the task at hand.

Re:So ask for two Windows machines

[sirket]

I just bought my own computer for $400, brought the damned thing in to work and use that. If they have a problem with it then they can supply me with a computer to use. I have a company laptop that I access via rdesktop from my Unix desktop (FreeBSD running straight sawfish). It helps that I have 8 - 19" LCD's connected to this one computer (all via DVI which is nice) via 2 quad Matrox G450 cards.

-sirket

How will it help you do your job better?

[spaceyhackerlady]

If it will help you do your job better, your boss should be insisting that you have Unix on your desk. Demanding, even.

Will it? Define "better". Make the case. Steal one, if you have to.

I have Solaris and Linux in my cubicle for my real work. I read my email on the "company standard" Windows 2000 box, and run a few brain-damaged legacy apps on an XP box in the lab.

I had the first Linux box in the company. We were a Solaris shop until the PHBs decided they preferred Windows. We have legacy products that are Solaris based, and still use Solaris for our new servers. I told my boss there was this whole new world out there, and if we didn't get with it, others would and we would lose. I was right, and our current flagship product is a direct result of that discussion.

...laura