Slashdot Mirror


Former Red Octane Staff Prohibited from Music Games

In what seems to be some ugly fallout from the Guitar Hero / RedOctane purchase, former Octane employees John Tam and Corey Fong are now legally prohibited from working on rhythm games. Activision has successfully brought suit against the men, arguing that they were using proprietary information gained under employ at the corporation to aid their new venture. As part their work after leaving RedOctane, Tam and Fong had begun working with the Reverb and The Ant Commandos groups on a demo for a dance/guitar game. "The demo incorporated elements of Guitar Hero and StepMania, a free dance game for the PC that supports dancepads and includes a step editor. The pair used it to solicit partners and funding for Lodestone Entertainment, the injunction states. As part of the injunction, the pair is prohibited from distributing or using the demo in any capacity and acting on or disclosing any Activision trade secrets. They are also prevented from taking steps to develop drum-, guitar-, or synthesizer-based games for the next year, nor can they work on any Xbox 360 controllers for Guitar Hero II until six months after the game's release this week. "

9 of 76 comments (clear)

  1. Sounds like a standard Non-Compete ... ? by Morgon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Am I wrong in thinking that this is the result of a typical non-compete (or equivalent)? I know I've had to sign some before.
    And to answer some other posts, it's not like telling a programmer he can't use whatever control structures he wants - these guys are specifically prevented from using information they gathered while working for a company in which that information is their entire business.

    --
    [DISCLAIMER: This post is a work of satire and should not be misconstrued as a holy text upon which to base a religion.]
    1. Re:Sounds like a standard Non-Compete ... ? by Izaak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If I were a lawyer, AND evil, I would argue that by working in the same field, you're necessarily using information gathered at your previous employer, because you ulimately draw on those experiences to improve what you do.


      There is actually already a body of case law about exactly this issue. Non-compete agreements are often found to be over broad and unenforceable. In general, it is expected that you will carry skills and knowledge that you learned on one job over to the next... hell, its why we list our employment history on our resume after all.


      The real issue is whether they actually carted off some sort of proprietary trade secret rather than just general knowledge/skill. That can be difficult to prove, and if these guys are smart they will counter-sue for loss of wages and professional reputation. Its a dangerous business when you decide to start suing someone for choosing to work in their chosen field of expertise. Judges often look unkindly on that.


      Cheers,

      Thad

  2. More was sold than just IP... by Applekid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Guitar Hero's ability to bring the rhythm game to the mainstream in Western countries made the big corps take notice. A dumptruck of money arrived to the doorstep which is a huge payday for a "mom & pop" publisher like Red Octane (while not strictly "mom & pop", in comparison to a behemoth like Activision, they are.) There's always a price to be paid and this fallout just highlights one of those prices. That's why it's called "selling out."

    Considering how "hot" the property is, I'd call it reasonable to say that any corporation that bought this IP would guard it as strongly.

    That said, TFA:
    "... Guitar Hero II executive producer John Tam and brand manager Corey Fong ..."

    Hmmm... how much success-deriding decision-making did these two actually make on GH2, anyway?

    --
    More Twoson than Cupertino
  3. Congradulations Activision, by kinglink · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First off Activision is probably right here. They had a contract, they violated it, they suffer.

    However this is the worse move Activision could make, they just jump to the head of the class in "bad producers" beating EA. It's a known quantity, developers will learn tricks at a company and bring it to a new company. This is a dirty little secret in the industry. Three guys quit a company and form a new one, did they magically get the idea for their next game at 6 o'clock on the day they quit? Nope they probably planned it a while before. This always happens and Activision crucifying someone like this is going to get a lot of attention, and this is not what a developer wants to hear of a prospective employer, that the employer will come after you when you leave the company.

    Does that mean the two developers were right in what they did? No, and honestly they violated their agreement, but to stop them from working on any rhythem game in the next year is pretty harsh.

    Btw last I checked Stepmania is still open source, Activision never bought it, but hey that's what Activision has to prove. They did work with a chief engineer on it (if you'll call him that) for In the groove but that's a different story than using stepmania code which is still public.

    1. Re:Congradulations Activision, by illegalcortex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd have to see a bit more of the details before I'd accept the language the plaintiff used. "Directed an Activision employee and Activision independent contractors to develop" could translate into normal people language as "got some of their friends who also worked at Activision to work on their project in their spare time." Likewise, "at Activision's expense" could mean "they used their company laptops to post to the project message board while at home."

      The defendants may very well have done something wrong. But from personal experience, employers will often greatly overstate their case and courts will back them up. It's much like when they RIAA claims some BS number for revenue lost, even though in reality a certain percentage of the people would never have bought the music even if they couldn't download it.

      Again, I'd have to read the exact details where Activision details when and where the work was done and with what company equipment.

  4. Read the article guys... They screwed up big time by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They really did screw up with this. They instructed other activision employees (they were managers), to develop a demo for a new game. They then left the company and used that demo that was made while at activision by activision employees to sell as the basis of a new game. If they had done it on their own time with their own resources without involving other activision employees, hardware or software, they would probably have been ok. However, they didn't.

    --
    We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
  5. No loopholes whatsoever? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "Have they broken the prohibition by writing code that goes into a rhythm game?"

    You tell us? You can read the intent as well as the rest of us. Why does the inclusion of that magic word "open source" change anything?

  6. NOT a non-compete by Wordplay · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Can't be. They're unenforceable in California by statute.

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/bpc/16600-16 607.html

    16600. Except as provided in this chapter, every contract by which
    anyone is restrained from engaging in a lawful profession, trade, or
    business of any kind is to that extent void.

    The exceptions have to do with breaking up a company. I don't think the acquisition would qualify.

    This is probably due to trade-secret knowledge.

  7. Re:No Rythym whatsoever? by 91degrees · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's quite clear, looking at the games they were working on, everyone would agree that a rhythm game would be something like Guitar Hero or a dancung game. Something with vague tangential similarities wouldn't.

    Courts are allowed to use a little common sense when interpreting contracts.