Hardware Implants Mimic Brain Cells

An anonymous reader writes "PopSci is reporting that Ted Berger, a USC scientist, has been working to engineer a brain implant the mimics the functions of neurons. Early tests on rat brain cells have shown promise, and if successful, Berger's implant could remedy everything from Alzheimer's to absent-mindedness — and reduce memory loss to nothing more than a computer glitch"

Comments

Had to be done

[Darth Hubris]

Press earlobe-eyeball-nose to continue

Re:Had to be done

[networkBoy]

Good god a BSOD could be bad.

There is a treatment for Essential Tremor that involves electrical stimulation of the hypothalamus. You can only treat one side of an individual else they may lose the ability to speak. While I would hope this would improve treatment options (seeing as I have a moderate case), I would be fearful of the cpu latching up in some way or another.
-nB

Java?

[HaeMaker]

Does it run Java?

1.4? 1.5? Colombian?

Re:Java?

[AKAImBatman]

Does the main bus of your computer run Java? Does it run x86 instructions? Does it run anything of the sort?

This technology appears to be mainly about routing signals, not generating or processing them. It assists with memory by properly storing and retrieving those signals, but it does not interpret them. (As evidenced by his comment, "I don't need to understand music to repair a CD Player.")

The article is correct, however, in that this technology will bring us one step closer to understanding how the brain functions. Since these neurons are artificial, the signals passing through can be sampled and stored on an external device. This would allow researchers to reverse engineer many signals in parallel rather than trying to trace one or two signals through the brain as they've been doing.

Unfortunately, I doubt this technology will outright unlock the secrets of conciousness. Remember how neural networks were intended to be an invaluable research tool into self-awareness? Well, the resulting networks ended up working in a similar but fundamentally different way from the organic brain. That fundamental difference prevented the networks from fully simulating the human brain.

So we'll take the next step forward, and learn where our previous mistakes were. Not to mention, uncover thousands of new questions. :)

Time to recycle the MS-Borg icon

[davidwr]

Methinks it's high time to make a generic borg icon for cyborg-tech stories.

Is "PopSci" the old Popular Science mag?

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

Is "PopSci" the old Popular Science mag? The one with the futuristic scramjets and flying cars on the cover and pages filled with useless gadgets? (I think half its readers went to Wired and the other half went to SlashDot.)

Engineered humans?

[Checkmait]

I am torn over this idea because clearly it represents a potential major advance in science and a cure to several insidious, incurable (as of today) diseases. We could probably extend the life expectancy of humans by a decade or so.

However, it also presents some less optimistic possibilities: for example, someone might be able to "program" humans as we program computers today. Imagine some terror organization such as Al Qaeda creating a fearless, seven-foot, feel-no-pain specimen....

Re:Engineered humans?

[D4rk Fx]

feel-no-pain specimen....

Well, I hope that they do leave the pain part out. Otherwise there will be a bunch of robots running around screaming:
'Why was I programmed to feel pain!'

Re:Engineered humans?

[future assassin]

>However, it also presents some less optimistic possibilities: for example, someone might be able to "program" humans as we program computers today. Imagine some terror organization such as Al Qaeda creating a fearless, seven-foot, feel-no-pain specimen..

Or imagine someone local and maybe you know creating a device that takes you out and then they rob you or even better cause the chip to kill you.

Re:Engineered humans?

[badboy_tw2002]

A decade? That's much to short sighted. Something like this could eventually enable immortality. Think about it - if you replace enough neurons, pretty soon most of who you are would live inside the machine. At that point, who's to say where your consciousness lives? Whats to stop you from transferring to a completely electronic brain and living on as long as you have juice? Of course, there's a lot of metaphysics around this - would "you" still be "you", what if you made a copy, etc. etc. Fascinating stuff. Of course, we're a long ways off from it, but if you look where transistors and such were 50 years ago, its not such a stretch to think this will be a possibility in the next few centuries.

Re:Engineered humans?

[Lord Ender]

However, it also presents some less optimistic possibilities: for example, someone might be able to "program" humans as we program computers today.

We already have this. It's called "religion," "nationalism," or "racism," depending on the form.

Note: If this seems offensive to you, and you have no doubts (faith) that your religion is the the one true religion, and your country is the best, surely you must admit that those other people over there have been "programmed" into falsely thinking that their religion is true and their country is best.

Re:Engineered humans?

[jfdawes]

Uhm, maybe because pain is the body's way of telling you that something you're doing to it is causing damage?

Without a pain analog, you get robots that are unable to respond to damage that they did not detect with whatever other senses they have available.

i.e. Just because you didn't feel yourself get shot in the back, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Re:Engineered humans?

[Dr. Eggman]

...and Corporations, Governments, Parents. I think it unfair to only metion religion when talking about 'human programming.' This isn't something that only certain organizations do; all people do it. There is a saying that says people are separated from animals by their desire to control their environment, in reality we are separated by our desire to control everything, including each other.

Re:Engineered humans?

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Actually, you've stumbled onto the primary problem and philosophical question about AI.

You've duplicated the information-crunching aspect of a neuron. Ok, fair enough.

Now how in god's name does the subjective perceptual conscious experience arise out of that? You didn't simulate that whatsoever.

Searle pointed out that, since consciousness is a physical phenomena, it must arise out in the real world somehow. But merely duplicating the information pushing (probably) isn't enough. It can't just arise out of the nothingess of information pushing per se.

Re:Engineered humans?

[ni42]

>Whats to stop you from transferring to a completely electronic brain and living on as long as you have juice?

What's to stop you?

Natural resources (or lack thereof). Money (being busy dealing with the cost of having a *place* to live -- not to mention retirement). Power (if you don't have any). Politics (all those people in developing countries ALSO wanting electronic brains, the greedy bastards -- and all the people in power who want to look like they care). You know, business as usual.

Besides, electronic != invulnerable. Don't people talk about how their cars or their computers "DIE"? Personally, I think our body has a good thing going with its cell division technology (as long as it has juice). Sadly, our cells are programmed to die... except for cancer cells, which are programmed to be immortal. I'm hoping for a fix in Homo sapiens 2.0.1.

I don't have a problem with an electronic brain. (I have money. Bring it on!) I'm just saying it's not the magic key to eternal life.

Let's do it RIGHT this time!

[StefanJ]

Let's build DRM into those artificial neurons, so that the Man of the Future loses bladder control and convulsively vomits if he tries to access pirated media.

Re:Let's do it RIGHT this time!

[MoodyLoner]

I must be running a beta.

Or do American Idol and Survivor do that to everybody?

You know.....

[LordPhantom]

I, for one, welcome our new hyper-intelligent engineered-brain rat overlords! I've also invested in cheese futures.

Is absent mindedness something you can "cure"

[antifoidulus]

or is it just part of being human, and more importantly, a part of who you are as a person? I exhibit all the signs of adult ADD(lets not go into the debate of whether it is really a disease or not) but I refuse to take personality altering drugs. I may wind up more successful etc. but I lose a fundamental part of who I am. I won't take anti-depressents for the same reason. So I personally fail to see how absent mindedness is something different. Its part of who you are, embrace it!

Re:Is absent mindedness something you can "cure"

[192939495969798999]

Having seen Alzheimer's in my family, I can tell you that anything that might cure that would be worth it for me. It is the most horrible tragedy to see someone lose a lifetime of memories, it is unthinkable until you see it for yourself how devastating it really is.

Re:Is absent mindedness something you can "cure"

[mdielmann]

Seconded. Before I started taking my little white pills, I had more difficulty managing stress, and losing control if stress got too high. I'd been managing this for years without medication, with little success. I was doing things that I didn't want to do. Then the stress point would pass, I'd feel bad, redouble my efforts, and it would happen again sooner or later. Now, I lose control a lot less, when I lose control it's not as bad, and it doesn't last as long. So, depending on how you define it, my personality hasn't changed, or it's changed to what I've been striving towards for years.

For those of you who say I should have just sucked it up, I'll give you an analogy. Imagine that during every waking instant you have to squeeze a wrist exerciser. No matter what else happens, you need to keep that grip or someone's going to get hurt. No matter how strong you are, you're going to get tired, or distracted, or just sick of having to maintain that grip. That's what it was like for me. Every now and then I need to apply that grip, but it's no longer constant. When the time comes, I can easily deal with it. I spend a lot less time regretting the things I've done, because I do a lot fewer things that I wouldn't have done if I'd had control. I'd rather not take those little white pills, but if I have to take them for the rest of my life to maintain this state that's something I can accept.

Raises some interesting questions

[Orange Crush]

I find the philosophical issues especially interesting. How much of the brain can be replaced before the original "self" no longer exists? I guess it doesn't really matter in the scheme of things so long as the pattern is replicated . . . I guess our brains are constantly gradually replaced throughout our lives--the molecules we were born with aren't necessarily the molecules we're currently made out of.

Re:Raises some interesting questions

[Tipa]

It's that old thought experiment -- if you have an axe and you get a new head for it and then later replace the handle, is it the same axe?

Re:Raises some interesting questions

[brunascle]

it's more than that, it's also a question of when/if someone loses their sentience/conscious self/soul/whatever you want to call it.

Re:When was the last time you encountered a glitch

[D4rk Fx]

I'd had to lose my mind as often as the average PC loses it's.

I'd say you already do.

Re:When was the last time you encountered a glitch

[Elemenope]

No, no, no! Obviously it's the new and highly successful shotgun approach to English grammar! Shotguns are the wave of the future in lingustics; don't you forget!

Re:unless you are testifying to congress...

[Opportunist]

No, it becomes "Sorry, had a HD crash".

Re:unless you are testifying to congress...

[Divide By Zero]

General error reading drive C.
Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail? f
C:\>

I'm sorry, Senator, I seem to have developed some bad sectors.

I can have dead brain cells repaired?

[Azathfeld]

YES! Time to go back off the wagon!

At what point do we cease being human?

[Giometrix]

At what point are we no longer human? Our thoughts stem from the firing of neurons. If half of those neurons are computer chips, was it a human thought or a computer generated though. I'm all for finding cures to Alzheimer's disease, but I do not want to be a glorified computer case. I did not read the article (yet), and I realize that the part of the brain discussed in the article is probably different than the creative parts of the brain, but I still think its a valid question; at what point do we stop being human (as we know it)?

Re:At what point do we cease being human?

[dj_tla]

Our thoughts stem from the firing of neurons. If half of those neurons are computer chips, was it a human thought or a computer generated though.

Is there really a difference? Our brains are incredibly complicated, but just because they are biological doesn't mean they're not just computing devices. It may be unsettling to some to believe, but this idea of 'free will,' that we're in control of our minds and can freely choose to do whatever we want is an illusion created by the very brain that tells us what to do. Sure, you can just randomly say "Hey, let's break the monotony!" and jump off a building, exhilarated by the feeling of freedom, but it's all a function of the inputs your brain has received over its lifetime. I have no doubt that, given the same inputs, you would do the same thing all over again.

This also brings up something interesting I remember from classes about computability theory. The halting problem can be expressed as: if a turing machine is given a turing machine as an input, can it determine if the input will finish running? Keeping in mind that a turing machine can simulate another turing machine. If one considers the brain a computing device, like a turing machine, then extending the halting problem metaphor, will we ever be able to reverse-engineer the brain to the point that we can recreate it?

Playing the Alzheimers card to get funding?

[KokorHekkus]

I don't thing this could be useful for any Alzheimers treatement in a very long time if ever (and we've probably solved it in another way even if it ever gets there).

As I understand it Alzheimers is basically a case of protein misfolding creating amyloid plaques on the neurons and that really screws up the functions (perhaps some with actual medical/biological knowledge can expand on that). Anyway, it's not just one part that you can hot-swap to use a computer term... it's happening all over the affected area. So you're not going to just plop in a new frontal lobe and call that a cure are you?

And yet the researcher goes on and makes a big point of this:

Today an estimated 4.5 million Americans suffer from Alzheimer's, at an annual cost of some $100 billion, according to the Alzheimer's Association and the National Institute on Aging. "And those figures are just going to climb as my generation gets older," says Berger, who can rattle off the grim statistics from Alzheimer's and other brain disorders that disturb memory. Another 5.3 million Americans are victims of traumatic brain injuries

I do belive that this technology could have many many wonderful uses but that Alzheimers isn't one of them... and by using on of the scariest biggest diseases just to flag down some interest he's doing not only himself but the whole research area a disfavour.

Re:Playing the Alzheimers card to get funding?

[Jewfro_Macabbi]

We already have a substance which helps prevent Alzheimers, marijuana... As you've stated Alzheimers is a plaque build-up on the brain. The binding and releasing of cannaboid to cannaboid brain receptors literally keeps the pipes clean....

Re:Great mambo Chicken

[ciaohound]

At what point are you more machine than person?

Well, if Obi-Wan is any authority on this, I guess it's when you have both arms and legs cut off and you can't live without a breath mask and respirator.

If they can act like neurons....

[PotatoHead]

then, we've got an interesting interface here. Sprinkle a few of these into the motor cortex, then have the person work with feedback systems to learn to differentiate those controls from the natural ones. From there, all sorts of potential exists for communication.

Instead of the computer being an active part of the brain, it becomes more like a PDA that you don't have to carry. Motor feedback signals, generated from the neurons would then become something like morse code.

Would be damn nice to be in a job interview, using Google in real time, while answering the questions with ordinary speech!

Re:Great mambo Chicken

[Orange Crush]

This makes me wonder how they'll address the chemical interactions in our brains. What'll happen when large portions of bio-brain have been replaced or augmented by hardware that doesn't respond to or produce neurotransmitters like seratonin or hormones? No sense bolting on silicon if it just turns us into bipolar schizophrenics.

Interesting Timing

[jfdawes]

This guy is making chips that can "talk" to the brain in signals the brain can understand, even if he doesn't know what the signals mean. Pure mimicry.

Oddly enough, the people mentioned in Hacking Our Five Senses (Apr-03-2007) are using similarly arbitrary but mechanical means to also send signals to the brain (admitedly using existing pathways).

Would it be possible to combine these two techniques, as well as a few miniturization techniques (and perhaps standard "ports") to enable people to not just replace storage capacity but indeed "add" senses?

Instead of using a belt to buzz "north", use implants to send one of a set of predetermined signals. It won't matter what the signals would originally mean (if anything) - because if Hacking Our Five Senses is any indication, the brain is capable of creating maps for the the new signals anyway.

Borg indeed.

Perhaps it can be..

[Meph_the_Balrog]

While I agree with the philosophical implications in your statement, perhaps data storage is the only truly necessary function of the brain. If we invented a computer that could store data as efficiently as a brain, and also gave it artificial senses (touch, taste, hearing, etc), and the standard neurological processes (pain, pleasure etc), who is to say that it wouldn't develop a consciousness.

Give an efficient data storage and processing system the ability to sample the world around it at its own speed, and who knows what might occur.