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New Laws of Robotics Proposed for US Kill-Bots

jakosc writes "The Register has a short commentary about a proposed new set of laws of robotics for war robots by John S Canning of the Naval Surface Warfare Centre. Unlike Asimov's three laws of robotics Canning proposes (pdf) that we should 'Let machines target other machines and let men target men.' Although this sounds OK in principle, 'a robot could decide under Mr Canning's rules, to target a weapon system such as an AK47 for destruction on its own initiative, requiring no permission from a human. If the person holding it was thereby killed, that would be collateral damage and the killer droid would be in the clear.'"

15 of 373 comments (clear)

  1. Robot laws by nurb432 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are for books and movies.. In the real world the only law is to win. You cant come in 2nd in a war.

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    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Robot laws by jim_v2000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Plus robots are controlled by someone at a terminal...they don't control themselves. I think this whole discussion is pointless until we have AI.

      --
      Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
    2. Re:Robot laws by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Informative

      Plus robots are controlled by someone at a terminal...they don't control themselves.
      Uhhh... no.
      If someone is controlling it, at best it is a telerobot (semi-autonomous) or at worst, a telemanipulator.

      A robot, by definition is autonomous and does not have or require human control.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telerobotics
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    3. Re:Robot laws by noidentity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Robots that are smart enough to understand said laws are also only in books and movies.

    4. Re:Robot laws by dave420 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And that's why people all over the world don't take kindly to US forces being near them, regardless of their expressed intent. Collateral damage might only be paperwork to the US forces, but to those directly affected, it's just another reason to fight back. Each death makes a whole family your enemy.

    5. Re:Robot laws by Terminal+Saint · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The old "no using .50s on personnel, they're for equipment only" fallacy gets thrown around a lot. In fact, my best friend even had it told to him when he was in basic. According to a DOD legal briefing: nothing in the Geneva or Hague Conventions prohibited the use of .50 cal weapons on enemy personel, the Hague Conventions only apply to signatory nations' UNIFORMED military personel, and US military personel always have the right to defend themselves and other personel with deadly force, using whatever weapon(s) are available; including fists, rocks, pointy sticks, knives, shotguns, cannon, etc.

      --
      It's sad when choosing an installation directory on your own qualifies you as an "advanced user."
    6. Re:Robot laws by NitsujTPU · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't know which system he's talking about, but the phalanx systems on battleships is a fully autonomous system that can shoot down enemy aircraft and even knock missiles out of the sky.

      It's knows which is which because all of the friendly aircraft have IFF systems that identify themselves.

    7. Re:Robot laws by Original+Replica · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It also works because the parameters that it uses to determine a threat are difficult for civilians to replicate. ie: Flying at a Navy ship at 1000+ mph. Handing out "don't shoot me" tags to civilians isn't gonna work so well in urban warfare. I hate to say it, but seeing as "terrorist" style tactics are the only realistic way to take on a more powerful military force, they are now a permenant part of war. As such, the idea of trying to treat the local civilians as "not the enemy" will not last another decade. The current US handling of Iraq will look as over civilized as Napoleanic "march in a straight line" warfare looks to us today. The robots will kill anyone outside after curfew.

      --
      We are all just people.
    8. Re:Robot laws by John+Newman · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'll assume you're a fucking moron, because you are. If Norway sent its infantry abroad, it would not equip them with AG3s.
      Are all Norwegians this polite, gentle, and peace-loving? In any event, reality must have an anti-Norwegian bias, because Norway has sent its soldiers to Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan, and it sent them armed with AG3's (along with even bigger guns). In the latter two nations they are even operating under the aegis of NATO, rather than the UN. Fortunately the Norwegeian government has ensured they are properly armed, but (sadly) this hasn't stopped them from killing civilian demonstrators or getting killed themselves.
    9. Re:Robot laws by TapeCutter · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "I don't see the grounds for comparison."

      In times of old a commoner's life was less secure. The lords of old had their own armys, armys are used to control territory regardless of who "owns" it (like many places in the world today). Although the lords eventually lost their private armies, mantraps were a legal symbol of disregard for commoner's that lasted well into the 1800's.

      ** caution rant ahead **

      Edisons father tied him up and gave him a public arse flogging in the center of town when he was a child, that same act in the same town today would land his father in jail. When I was a kid black people couldn't vote, homo's deserved any beating they got, living together out of wedlock made you a social outcast, young and pregnant meant you had to give up your child for adoption so as not to shame your family, being a woman (or black or asian) meant I could pay you peanuts, harrass you at work, and sack you for not sucking my dick.

      In a lot of ways we treat each other with more respect than we did even 50yrs ago, IMO the reason is because nation states are not that different to the fuedal lords of England and Europe who eventually worked out that beating the shit out of each other for the right to ransom each others nobility was counter-productive. I think GWB took us a step backwards but the historical trend toward a more and more "inclusive" society is hard to deny.

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      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  2. Three rules... by pla · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1) Spell "Asimov" correctly when submitting an article to Slashdot.

    2) The military will program their toys to kill everything and everything, and to hell with Asimov (right up until they turn on us)

    3) Humans already count as collateral damage in warfare. Damn the men, spare the oilfields!

  3. Sounds more like RoboCop laws of robotics... by RyanFenton · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's like RoboCop: You shall not harm any employee of the your owners. But you have the authority to find a way to get them fired, and THEN kill them. And no one found any problem with this until their boss was dead in front of them, and they realized they could be next.

    Honestly though, I see value in a policy that no human life should be risked in automatic death systems - including land mines and other traps. These loopholes make that policy as useless as some RoboCop parody though.

    Ryan Fenton

  4. Killbots? A trifle. by tripler6 · · Score: 4, Funny

    You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down.

  5. Premature by Spazmania · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is it just me or is a discussion of ethics laws for robots premature given the state of the art in artificial intelligence? If you want to teach a machine not to harm humans, it helps to first teach the machine the difference between a human and every other object it encounters.

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  6. No by KKlaus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is total nonsense. First off, the Afghans _did_ beat the russians, as the Russians pulled out and stopped attacking. They didn't beat them in a strategic sense with tanks ans planes and whatnot, but they still clearly won. Secondly, your anecdotes don't makes sense. If the Celts that are around today are the same ones that were around to get the crap beaten out of them a thousand years ago, then guess what, the Romans are fine we just call them Italians now. Winning isn't bad, witness the USSR, the third reich, the Persian empire, on and on, for whom losing didn't work out well.

    You're confusing governments with peoples. Yes the Irish are still around. So are the Italians, so, in fact, are the Germans, Japanese, and Brits. Winning or losing wars rarely affects that, with notable exceptions like the Native Americans, for whom I think it's pretty obvious losing was a bad thing. What aren't still around are governments. And while winning might not make one last forever, I think Hitler and Hirohito would tell you losing is much worse.

    Seriously, the only way winning would not be a virtue, is if it led to complacency, arrogance, and ultimately weakness. But even then, you would have to _lose_ a war for it to matter. And really, with the exception of the Native American's most peoples have survived, and there's really no one to outlast. You are thinking of governments, and trust me, just because you can't think of the names of the governments that disappeared (fair because winners write history) they did.

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